• Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers

    Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?

    View thread

Is Vaping Harmful to your Health

Status
Not open for further replies.

jbnuke

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 27, 2014
184
253
Trenton nj
Good article wonner but they don't mention resistance so there's no telling how hot they were heating the juice. I've read before that at temps that burn juice, it gives off formaldehyde. Not sure it's applicable to what most of us do.
very good point... temperature is everything....
also anybody found anything analyzing what the I believe its ceramic wick in the aspire nautilus mini gives off? I would guess little to nothing as ceramics are essentially heatproof whereas the formaldehyde may have been coming from the wicking material charring/ burning?
 

Katmar

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Sep 19, 2009
4,147
84,615
Pittsburgh, Pa
Last edited:

DaveP

PV Master & Musician
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2010
16,733
42,565
Central GA
All of the above makes me think of high watt users. It's still about temperature. If you vape at high wattage and feed juice rapidly enough to prevent burning and provide enough air flow, then you may be just fine. I have to think that good flavor and vapor at high watt levels means that the increased juice feed and air flow is keeping the temps below the point of producing acrolein and other dangerous chemicals. There's just more efficiency in the process and it's producing more vapor under a tightly controlled scenario.

We all refuse to vape anything that's acrid and burnt tasting, so chances are that we are OK with our vaping as long as there's no burned glycerine/glycol. The temps that produce acrolien and other unwanted chemicals generally produce bad, burned, acrid flavor.
 
Last edited:

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,889
67
saint paul,mn,usa
Well yeah, CASAA is funding studies because they're trying to help the vaping community. It doesn't mean that there's some coercion. Those studies cost money and it's gotta come from somewhere. Plus the studies that will actually matter are more time dependent. There simply hasn't been enough time.

But, even that won't matter. The FDA deems drugs to be safe all the time. Whether they truly believe it is, or they were pressured by pharmaceutical companies, who knows. Then a few years later, there's a class action lawsuit because they found their safe drug is making people sick. It doesn't matter, because they made a ton of money in the mean time. It's obvious that ecigarettes and vaping is already big, and will be HUGE in the near future. I believe that when the government and big business figure out a way to make boat loads of money from it, we will suddenly see all kinds of "proof" that it's relatively harmless and we should all vape as much as possible.

in class action law suites one need not prove that anyone in the scope of the suite experiences any
more harmful results than a non risk group.(those not using the particular drug in the claim)
they only need to show that the claimants didn't experience said claimed health issues before
taking the said very bad drug.
remember DOW Chemical and breast implants?
that's where all this b.s. started.
when someone talks tort reform this is what they mean.not keeping one from
their day in court but,keeping law firms from raping the system.
very successful law firms are already making blanket calls for claims and injuries
and any harm in general concerning e-cigs.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,889
67
saint paul,mn,usa
The doctors who conducted the study are capable professionals and they are now associated with CASAA. I don't see how that changes the results and the implications of the relative safety of ecigs compared to smoking cigarettes. I'm convinced that my vaping will add a few years to my life vs smoking.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...es-brad-rodu-igor-burstyn-its-leadership.html

The point is that we only have studies done by pro-vaping sources. The rest of the doubters, including the FDA haven't done enough research to justify any sort of conclusion. Either that, or they have no ammunition sufficient to publish detrimental articles.

Government, especially state government, has no reason to go to war against big tobacco. There's still 11 years left of payments to the states under the 1998 tobacco settlement agreement. Would they shut down the cash cow? Would they rather pronounce vaping to be of much lesser harm, or even worse declare it to be relatively safe? Big tobacco guaranteed themselves 25 years of extended life with the tobacco settlement.

Tobacco taxes are actually higher than the profits made on it if you believe what RJR has to say. Government is the one profiting most from tobacco.

https://www.rjrt.com/taxpays.aspx



We are pawns of a larger entity, IMO.

some states have 7 years left.
some states bonded out expected returns in the first year.
cigarette sales are dropping,hence per the agreement payments
to the states are dropping.there is a point if sales drop to a certain
level payments stop completely.
either way the states that bonded out heir payments and the states that
didn't face the same problem.the cash cow is disappearing.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,889
67
saint paul,mn,usa
I've seen a few members throwing this statistic around on the forums recently. I wondered if you knew where it came from?

In order to say something is 98 +/- 1% safer than something else, you have to have a base line as to how unsafe something is, and I wonder if they are using the number of chemicals in cigarette smoke known to be harmful or something as their baseline.

Not trying to call you out, just wondering if you have a link to something that uses that statistic so I can check out how they came to that conclusion.

there is a base line.i haven't the time to google it up now.
the cliff note version is not even the ANTZ argue against this.
it means at 98% safer than smoking the rate of getting a smoking related illness
is at or slightly above a non risk group.(non smoker)
it also means its statistically about as safe as your drinking water can
be guaranteed to be.
there is nothing 100% safe.not even clean mountain air.
regards
 
remember DOW Chemical and breast implants?
that's where all this b.s. started...

I didn't realize that... I thought it started in the late 70's because of the Union Carbide incident in Bhopal, India that prompted 29 CFR 1910. I guess that ws the beginning of OSHA. Tort law is a tangled mess, but some of it is a necessary evil tho. It's amazing how many companies will willfully hurt and otherwise take advantage of unknowing consumers.
 
All I know is that I quit smoking after 35 years and I feel MUCH better. Do I think ecigarettes are 100% safe? No, probably not. Nothing is. But I can breathe now. My living room smells like bananas now. Yeah, it's a bit foggy in here, but it makes it kind of mysterious. Like London. It's like London and bananas in here. I eat, drink and breathe things that are probably far worse for me than what's in this vape I'm holding. I feel like I'm much better off, and I have a lot of other distractions, so I don't need to pick this new, healthier lifestyle apart.
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,889
67
saint paul,mn,usa
Any research financed by CASAA is very questionable to me.
I have to repeat again: there were a lot of “research” financed by Big Tobacco; it showed that cigarettes are mostly harmless.


Yes, I already stated that I strongly believe that vaping is much less harmful than smoking. We are talking now just about vaping, not about smoking.


Not at all. A lot of e-cig studies. Here is a short list of recent ones (the most interesting for me was the first one, about second-hand vaping):

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935114003089
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0887233314000757
IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Effect of Smoking Abstinence and Reduction in Asthmatic Smokers Switching to Electronic Cigarettes: Evidence for Harm Reversal | HTML
Tobacco Induced Diseases | Full text | E- Cigarette acute effect on symptoms and airway inflammation: comparison of nicotine with a non-nicotine cigarette

cigarettes are generally considered harmful over long term heavy use .
this is most likely true.just like over indulging in anything else.
this concept of 20-30 year delays in the onset of illness after one quits
what may or may not have been heavy use is specious at best.
the tobacco companies never claimed tobacco was harmless after
the science started coming in.they just said it isn't that bad until
you factor in the heavy users.
most heavy users are in the lower economic categories and live
in the most environmentally challenged or poorest places in the country.
:2c:
mike
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,889
67
saint paul,mn,usa
I didn't realize that... I thought it started in the late 70's because of the Union Carbide incident in Bhopal, India that prompted 29 CFR 1910. I guess that ws the beginning of OSHA. Tort law is a tangled mess, but some of it is a necessary evil tho. It's amazing how many companies will willfully hurt and otherwise take advantage of unknowing consumers.

in Bhopal there was actual provable harm.
gas escaped.people breathed the gas,they died or were injured.
Dow chemical and breast implants was a different story.
woman got implants.some got sick.when comparing the
percentage of woman that had implants against woman that
didn't for the illnesses in question there was zero statistical difference.
which means of course the implants were not the cause.
for what ever reason the courts ruled that they were fine before the implants
therefore the implants had to cause the illness.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

Stosh

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 2, 2010
8,921
16,673
72
Nevada

Stosh

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 2, 2010
8,921
16,673
72
Nevada
All I know is to avoid e-juices that contain Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin.

Most if not all US makers at least don't use them but Diacetyl in particular is used to give a buttery flavor to things but inhaling it can cause "popcorn lung" over time.


Read up on the actual studies done on inhaled diacetyl before you panic. If you are an ex-smoker, you used to inhale far more diacetyl everyday from smoking than you would from any other source.

First there's Dr. Farsalinos study on diacetyl in e-liquid.....Dr. Farsalinos study on diacetyl in e-liquid which found

DA and AP were found in 74.2% of the samples, with more samples containing DA. The levels found are presented in
Figures 2 and 3 The calculated median daily exposure levels were 56 μg/mL (IQR: 26-278μg/mL) for DA and
91 μg/mL (IQR: 20-432 μg/mL) for AP. They were 2-times higher than the strict NIOSH-defined safety limits (Figure 4) but 100 and 10 times lower compared to smoking respectively. Similar concentrations were found in liquid and vapor for both chemicals
(Figure 5), with a very strong correlation between the concentration in liquid and in vapor for both substances


Also of interest, there's the study comparing smoking to the industrial study which raised the exposure danger of inhaled diacetyl in the first place.

We found that diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures from cigarette smoking far exceed
occupational diacetyl exposures
for most food/flavoring workers who smoke.

Concentrations of Diacetyl and 2,3-Pentanedione in Mainstream Cigarette Smoke: A Comparison to Workplace Exposures
http://www.cardnochemrisk.com/~chem...OT_2014/Pierce_Diacetyl_SOT_2014_Abstract.pdf[
 
At this point, I don't think there has actually been any in-depth research, but the very limited available information certainly supports the fact that vaping far safer than smoking. Just a few months ago, my wife completed chemo and radiation treatment for lung cancer and is now in remission. We both had smoked for nearly 50 years and what I can tell you is that our GP and her oncologist both strongly supported her use of ecigs. They were well aware that she was vaping all during her treatments, and even vaped while in the hospital during two extended stays. Even the hospital had no issue with patients vaping in their rooms. For me, that spoke volumes regarding the safety issues related to vaping vs analogs.
 

jpargana

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 5, 2010
777
2,533
52
Portugal
Good article wonner but they don't mention resistance so there's no telling how hot they were heating the juice. I've read before that at temps that burn juice, it gives off formaldehyde. Not sure it's applicable to what most of us do.

It would not be below some "scientists" standards, both on "science" and "ethics", to apply unthinkable voltages to a carto, letting it almost completely dry and then presenting the results as a "danger" to vapers. As if in the real world, vapers were not smart enough to stop and check their devices at the first sign of a dry hit...
 

Woofer

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 8, 2014
3,894
15,261
PA, SK, CA
@Auntie Mame, I joined CASAA about two months ago. I have only been vaping now for about 4 months. I think that CASAA has done some great things and I continue to donate to them because I believe that E-cigarettes may save many people lives who have tried just about everything else to quit smoking. I grew up in Southern California and most of my friends were smoking about the time they were 16; I was no exception.

I have tried off and on for the past 10 years to quit smoking. Patches, hypnotism, cold turkey, gum... One day I walked in to what I perceived to be a discount tobacco shop. It turned out to be what I refer to as a head shop; ....s, pipes; devices for smoking .......... I had not seen such paraphernalia for years. As I was looking around a young salesman came up to me smoking a variable voltage mod that frankly I had no idea of what it was. Inquiring of him, he explained to me that it was similar to an e-cigarette and went on to explained how it worked.

After spending about 20 minutes talking with the salesman, I left the store with a medium priced variable wattage device, a couple of Aspire tanks, a battery charger and some 24mg juice in lieu of the carton of cigarettes I entered the store for. I did not really take to vaping right away because it just did not feel the same to me. After a couple of days, I had ruined both of the cheap Aspire tanks I bought by putting the mod in my pockets which caused the tank to separate from the base. Frustrated I went back to the store and ended up purchasing and Itazte SVG with a Nautilus tank.

I vaped the SVG for about three weeks and was pretty much hooked on the vaping and happy that I had only smoked a few cigarettes in that time period. One day, I walked in to a store specifically for vaping in the town I live in, College Station, Texas. The shop I visited sold many different brands of juices and authentic mechanical mods. I was mesmerized by the mechanical mods because I had never seen one before. I fell in love with a Chi Megan (first run) and about 400.00 dollars later, I left the store with my first mechanical mod and a Tugboat RDA.

Over the past four months, I have bought several more mods as seen below:
mods1.jpg

The above is just a picture of my favorites, as I have spent well over $40,000 buying just about every authentic mod and RDA I can find. A couple of weeks ago, I started building my own coils for my drippers and have become very good at it. I have well over 200 mods now and each one as its own RDA. On the 8th of this month I have tickets to go to my first vape convention that is being held in Houston, Texas.

I have traded my addiction to tobacco in favor of collecting mechanical mods. I have not smoked a single cigarette in over 3 months now and I am vaping juice at 0-3mg nicotine. Most people would probably say that I have gone off the deep end with collecting mods, and would probably be right in saying so. All I can say is that every penny I spend on mods, rdas, tanks, batteries, coil wire, cotton, donations to pro-e-cig groups and juice, is money the tobacco industry and the outrageous government tobacco taxing will not be getting any more.

@ EVERYONE

My main purpose for mentioning the mechanical mods is that I know a lot of people including myself who have tried e-cigarettes and gave up on them very shortly after having started using them. Vaping with a hard hitting variable voltage device really helped me to quit because I really needed something that would deliver the same kind of punch as a regular cigarette. Mechanical mods just takes it to the next level. I highly suggest to anyone out there who has tried e-cigarettes and did not like them, to give a variable voltage device a try. Do not go cheap. Do not be afraid to spend around 100-150 dollars to buy a good hard hitting device. There are many good ones, but I highly suggest these Itazte SVG. PM me, if you need some help with choosing your device.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread