It's not vapers tongue...

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Adsy

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Hi all,
I'm new to vaping, 6mths, and even newer to DIY juice. My issue is that I've made up a few recipes from a trusted site using trusted ingredients, usp grade pg & vg, TFA and Cap concentrates. Last mix was a simple strawberry/watermelon at 60/40 vg/pg with 4mg nic. I vape my concuctions and it's like I get instant vapors tongue. The flavour is muted and the vapor seems thick and oily in the mouth. I've tried playing around with the ratios, the vapor changes as expected but same end result. It even takes an hour or so before i can taste my store bought juice properly again, like my tongue has been coated in wax. It's not vapors tongue because the flavour of my ADV store bought juice returns after a short while. I haven't tried diluting my vg with distilled water or pga/vodka but before I go any further I'm hoping some of you can provide a little insight to this problem.
TIA
Adsy.
 
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Mr. Relentless

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^^^ yep. Some flavors can't be tasted by some people. My gf can't taste blueberry for some reason. So adding more consintrate trying to taste a flavor might over load your taste buds like a lemon. I have a strawberry Bavarian cream that's a week old I'm not even going to try for another couple weeks. Steep and breath is all you can really do till it's ready.
 

IDJoel

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If you would post a couple of the recipes you tried, along with how you went about measuring and mixing them, we might be able to be more helpful. Be sure to include names AND manufacturers of all ingredients used. The more information you are willing to provide; the more help we can offer.:)
 

Adsy

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Thanks for your replies. Apologies for not being specific enough, I'm also new to forums.
The recipes I've made have come from 99juices.com
I use the steam engine calculator and weigh on digital scales accurate to 0.00g
The last recipe was a shake n vape.
10ml
65/35 pg/vg
4mg nic in 48mg solution 100% PG.
Nic base PG 0.86g
10% TFA Strawberry 1.05g
10% TFA Watermelon 1.05g
VG 8.17g
PG 0.72g
There just isn't any taste, the pg or vg seems to be overwhelming the flavours and after Vaping this, I cannot properly taste my store bought stuff for a little while.
I've also made the snake oil clone from the same site, using the same methods and have allowed this to steep for a week now but it still has poor flavour and that overly oily taste.
Do you guys dilute your vg? Until I started researching my problem I didn't know dilution was a a thing.
Any advise will be highly appreciated.
Thanks.
 
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Beamslider

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TFA Watermelon
Undiluted concentrated flavoring from The Flavor Apprentice (TFA). Recommended to start testing at 5% to base and adjust to taste.
Watermelon-TFA

Pretty much the TFA strawberry flavors are also listed as 5% recommended.

Try cutting down on the amount and retry
 

Opinionated

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Try using the watermelon at 5% with the strawberry at 3%.

That still might be high, but you could try it to see, that watermelon is a bit lighter flavor...

When you slam your taste buds with too much flavoring, it's as bad as not using any. I mix around 8% flavorings (which includes sweeteners), and that is considered high for most people. You really don't want 20%.
 
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IDJoel

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The recipes I've made have come from 99juices.com
I use the steam engine calculator and weigh on digital scales accurate to 0.00g
The last recipe was a shake n vape.
10ml
65/35 pg/vg
4mg nic in 48mg solution 100% PG.
Nic base PG 0.86g
10% TFA Strawberry 1.05g
10% TFA Watermelon 1.05g
VG 8.17g
PG 0.72g
You didn't provide a specific recipe name, so I am guessing here, but is this the recipe you used?
upload_2017-11-28_21-45-43.png


If so; I note that you did not follow the recipe. You included half again as much strawberry, and tripled the watermelon. So, it is not surprising that it did not come out like you expected. That would be like taking a pancake recipe that calls for flour, baking soda, milk, and eggs, and deciding to add a random "extra" amount of flour and baking soda, and still expecting it to taste like pancakes.

One of the things that is nice about DIYing your own e-liquid; is that you can make juice any way you like. You can increase flavors, decrease flavors, and even substitute flavors and brands... but you do need to have an understanding of the flavors you are working with.

Because, where my pancake analogy falls on its face is: flour is flour, and baking soda is baking soda, and any brand will do; that doesn't translate well to DIY. If I try using FlavourArt or Inawera Strawberry, in the same percentages, as I use The Flavor Apprentice Strawberry, I would have something completely unvapeable. This is true too, of arbitrarily "adding more" of any flavors I am unfamiliar with.

Get to know your flavors. Work with them. Learn what they do, and don't, contribute. Doing small (3-5mL) test batches of single flavors, at various percentages, is a good way to do so... and learn what percentages they work best for you.
There just isn't any taste, the pg or vg seems to be overwhelming the flavours and after Vaping this, I cannot properly taste my store bought stuff for a little while.
As others have suggested; this can be due to using too much flavor. For some vapers, some flavors can actually start to fade (or disappear) when to much is used. It seems to overwhelm the taste buds and cause them to shut down for a bit. This could be an explanation for why it seems to linger for a bit, and carry over to your store-bought juice.

Or, it could be a poor quality batch of one of your bases. I would do some googling of your specific brand(s); and see what others are saying about it. Don't rely on the vendor's own posted reviews, as some unscrupulously omit less complimentary opinions.

Also, it is fine to vape PG or VG, by themselves. It isn't very exciting, but it will show you quite quickly, if either of them is bringing something unwanted to the party. Give yourself a clean coil and wick; and then add a few drops of PG to the atty; take a few puffs; repeat until you are satisfied that you detect nothing "off." Then; do the same thing for your VG.

You can't/shouldn't do the same thing for your nic base... so for that, you will need to mix up a small amount of unflavored e-liquid. After you have tested your PG and VG (each separately); mix up a small sample of PG, VG, and nicotine base in your preferred ratio (65P/35V 4mg/mL nic?) and then vape that. (As a side-note: there are those of us who actually like unflavored as all, or part of our everyday vaping routine. You may find you like this and get an easy, and cheap, "winner" out of this experiment.;))

If those all work fine for you; then you have ruled out everything but your flavor concentrates!:D
I've also made the snake oil clone from the same site, using the same methods and have allowed this to steep for a week now but it still has poor flavour and that overly oily taste.
I had two thoughts as I read this statement.
First; about choosing particular recipes. Besides looking for recipes that I have the ingredients required, and that it is a flavor profile that sounds good to me; I also try to choose those that have a fair amount of positive feedback. I notice the strawberry/watermelon recipe had NO feedback, while the Snake Oil had a significant 32. Depending on what you are looking for, you may not always get to be so choosy, but it is something to think about when searching.

Also, while I am on the subject of scouting recipes, I always make a note of who the contributing author is, and what website I found it on. That way, if it is a winner, I can easily seek out other recipes by the same author.

The second thought was; I am still really struggling with your description of your efforts as "oily." To me, oily is less about taste, and more of a "feel" thing. I am wondering if it might be more of an "artificial, chemical-like" off taste that some people can detect with certain flavors (esp. when used at higher concentrations).
Do you guys dilute your vg? Until I started researching my problem I didn't know dilution was a a thing.
Any advise will be highly appreciated.
I don't personally. As I understand from what I have read: the two main reasons some choose to dilute is either to thin it for atomizers that don't wick high VG e-liquids well enough (primarily tanks); and some think it creates a "moister" vape (my own brief experiment did not result in any benefit).

The other thing to keep in mind is, if you are using true USP grade VG, there may already be water in it. Look for a purity percentage (e.g. 95%, 97%, 99%, etc.) and know that the balance is distilled water; so be sure to include that in your total dilution calculations.
:toast:
 

Opinionated

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You didn't provide a specific recipe name, so I am guessing here, but is this the recipe you used?
View attachment 703157

If so; I note that you did not follow the recipe. You included half again as much strawberry, and tripled the watermelon. So, it is not surprising that it did not come out like you expected. That would be like taking a pancake recipe that calls for flour, baking soda, milk, and eggs, and deciding to add a random "extra" amount of flour and baking soda, and still expecting it to taste like pancakes.

One of the things that is nice about DIYing your own e-liquid; is that you can make juice any way you like. You can increase flavors, decrease flavors, and even substitute flavors and brands... but you do need to have an understanding of the flavors you are working with.

Because, where my pancake analogy falls on its face is: flour is flour, and baking soda is baking soda, and any brand will do; that doesn't translate well to DIY. If I try using FlavourArt or Inawera Strawberry, in the same percentages, as I use The Flavor Apprentice Strawberry, I would have something completely unvapeable. This is true too, of arbitrarily "adding more" of any flavors I am unfamiliar with.

Get to know your flavors. Work with them. Learn what they do, and don't, contribute. Doing small (3-5mL) test batches of single flavors, at various percentages, is a good way to do so... and learn what percentages they work best for you.

As others have suggested; this can be due to using too much flavor. For some vapers, some flavors can actually start to fade (or disappear) when to much is used. It seems to overwhelm the taste buds and cause them to shut down for a bit. This could be an explanation for why it seems to linger for a bit, and carry over to your store-bought juice.

Or, it could be a poor quality batch of one of your bases. I would do some googling of your specific brand(s); and see what others are saying about it. Don't rely on the vendor's own posted reviews, as some unscrupulously omit less complimentary opinions.

Also, it is fine to vape PG or VG, by themselves. It isn't very exciting, but it will show you quite quickly, if either of them is bringing something unwanted to the party. Give yourself a clean coil and wick; and then add a few drops of PG to the atty; take a few puffs; repeat until you are satisfied that you detect nothing "off." Then; do the same thing for your VG.

You can't/shouldn't do the same thing for your nic base... so for that, you will need to mix up a small amount of unflavored e-liquid. After you have tested your PG and VG (each separately); mix up a small sample of PG, VG, and nicotine base in your preferred ratio (65P/35V 4mg/mL nic?) and then vape that. (As a side-note: there are those of us who actually like unflavored as all, or part of our everyday vaping routine. You may find you like this and get an easy, and cheap, "winner" out of this experiment.;))

If those all work fine for you; then you have ruled out everything but your flavor concentrates!:D

I had two thoughts as I read this statement.
First; about choosing particular recipes. Besides looking for recipes that I have the ingredients required, and that it is a flavor profile that sounds good to me; I also try to choose those that have a fair amount of positive feedback. I notice the strawberry/watermelon recipe had NO feedback, while the Snake Oil had a significant 32. Depending on what you are looking for, you may not always get to be so choosy, but it is something to think about when searching.

Also, while I am on the subject of scouting recipes, I always make a note of who the contributing author is, and what website I found it on. That way, if it is a winner, I can easily seek out other recipes by the same author.

The second thought was; I am still really struggling with your description of your efforts as "oily." To me, oily is less about taste, and more of a "feel" thing. I am wondering if it might be more of an "artificial, chemical-like" off taste that some people can detect with certain flavors (esp. when used at higher concentrations).

I don't personally. As I understand from what I have read: the two main reasons some choose to dilute is either to thin it for atomizers that don't wick high VG e-liquids well enough (primarily tanks); and some think it creates a "moister" vape (my own brief experiment did not result in any benefit).

The other thing to keep in mind is, if you are using true USP grade VG, there may already be water in it. Look for a purity percentage (e.g. 95%, 97%, 99%, etc.) and know that the balance is distilled water; so be sure to include that in your total dilution calculations.
:toast:

Just a thing... but I think he was using this recipe here:

Strawmelon E-Liquid Recipe - 99Juices
 

Beamslider

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Currently have a strawberry flavor I made that I like okay. Nice strawberry with a little cereal flavor maybe a little too sweet but okay for a short change up.

5% TFA Ripe Strawberry
1% Real Flavor Strawberry
2% Real Flavor Rice Krispy
.5% sweetner
Just tossed together and nothing special but ok. Less than 10% and a lot of flavor
 

naeemza

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Mar 31, 2017
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I've been suffering with a taste problem for 13 months now! I just got off the phone with a friend who had the problem for 6 months. He says that in his experience it's the maltol (probably ethyl maltol) that some flavours have in them. Strawberry Ripe (TFA) is one of them. He said that just 2 months ago he tried TFA sweetener (which has maltol in it) and he lost his taste again almost instantly. He suggested quitting vaping for a few days, using unflavoured liquids and having very bitter (coffee, aloe vera, etc) and very sour foods (lemons, etc). I am definitely going to try it. 13 months is just too long now and having this type of issue when you own a vape store is extremely frustrating
 
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score69

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I've been suffering with a taste problem for 13 months now! I just got off the phone with a friend who had the problem for 6 months. He says that in his experience it's the maltol (probably ethyl maltol) that some flavours have in them. Strawberry Ripe (TFA) is one of them. He said that just 2 months ago he tried TFA sweetener (which has maltol in it) and he lost his taste again almost instantly. He suggested quitting vaping for a few days, using unflavoured liquids and having very bitter (coffee, aloe vera, etc) and very sour foods (lemons, etc). I am definitely going to try it. 13 months is just too long now and having this type of issue when you own a vape store is extremely frustrating
My taste is pretty much shot these days. Even for food. Not sure if vaping has caused this or not, but I'm not willing to give up the vaping long enough to find out. All of my food these days have to be pretty spicy for me to even begin to enjoy them.

Now, I haven't smoked in over 15 years. Probably smoked for about 12 years before I quit the ciggies. So that shouldn't be a factor for me, my taste should have recovered by now I would think. I started vaping many years ago, to quit dipping, gum, patches, and lozenges. :)

I also have been vaping unflavored juice for many years. Gave up the flavored stuff a while back. I vape flavored every once in a while, but store bought flavored juice hasn't been a good experience for me when I've tried it. Too strong, I would need to dilute the juice or DIY to get a lower flavor percentage. So I just stick with unflavored.

It's weird, flavored juice is 'too much' for my taste buds, but I have very little taste for food these days.

I know taste changes as you get older, but I'm only 47. I wonder if VG/PG themselves can start to mute tastebuds over a long period of time? Not saying they do, this would be more widely reported. Maybe for a small percentage of us it does though?
 
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naeemza

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My taste is pretty much shot these days. Even for food. Not sure if vaping has caused this or not, but I'm not willing to give up the vaping long enough to find out. All of my food these days have to be pretty spicy for me to even begin to enjoy them.

Now, I haven't smoked in over 15 years. Probably smoked for about 12 years before I quit the ciggies. So that shouldn't be a factor for me, my taste should have recovered by now I would think. I started vaping many years ago, to quit dipping, gum, patches, and lozenges. :)

I also have been vaping unflavored juice for many years. Gave up the flavored stuff a while back. I vape flavored every once in a while, but store bought flavored juice hasn't been a good experience for me when I've tried it. Too strong, I would need to dilute the juice or DIY to get a lower flavor percentage. So I just stick with unflavored.

It's weird, flavored juice is 'too much' for my taste buds, but I have very little taste for food these days.

I know taste changes as you get older, but I'm only 47. I wonder if VG/PG themselves can start to mute tastebuds over a long period of time? Not saying they do, this would be more widely reported. Maybe for a small percentage of us it does though?


So your taste for vape liquids are higher than normal and your taste for food is lower? That's strange
 
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