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James Blonds thread about fatigue, malaise, lazyness from e-cigs

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Juxtapose, Dec 2, 2015.

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  1. Juxtapose

    Juxtapose Full Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Hello everyone, I am 50 year old man from London UK who eventually gave up smoking real smokes on May 2014 after using e-cigs intermittently before hand.

    I found James blond post about E-CIGS CAUSING FATIGUE LAZINESS MALAISE when doing a google search as I have been feeling similar since around the time I started using e-cigs ( which was a few months before actually stopping )

    After feeling sleepy and non refreshed during the day for so long I took a trip to the doctor and
    • I was diagnosed with mild sleep apnoea and was given a c pap machine. Hoping this would cure my laziness but it did not do much. (Sleep Apnoea is caused by snoring due to tubes acting like a non inflated baloon and the cpap machine forces the tubes to be round by adding gentle pressure via a mask )
    • The doctor also said I was vitamin D deficient so now I take those also now as well as vitamin c, still feel lazy.

    I still run 4 miles twice or thrice a week and feel good after, but the overall lazy negative mood, combined with not wanting to get out of bed has not gone away. I also now have problems with procrastination, indecision and over thinking. Anyone who knew me before would tell you I was decisive, enthusiastic and energetic in general. Also my sex drive is slightly lower now.

    A lot of thinking about this has lead me to the possibility that e-cigs were the root of my new lazy, indecisive, non motivated personality. I share the same symptoms as James Blond but they seem slightly less than those he stated. These days it is often hard to get out of bed, and easy to return to it during the day for a nap which is something I never used to do.

    Reading these threads and others has wised me up the regular smoking provides anti-depressants ( which I did not know before ) so it could be the effect of having this removed. I am also open to the possibility that e-cigs could contain something which is causing this side effect.

    I am also aware I could have a higher level of nicotine in my blood than when a smoker which could be causing the symptoms. As the Jame Blond thread was 3 years ago I was hoping someone has found out if there is an explanation for this.

    • Basically I have quit smoking now and not a single tobacco fag has been in my mouth since May 2014 ( 19 months ) and that is great as I no longer have the dark thoughts about getting lung cancer at the back of my mind

    • Problem is that I don't like feeling like a lazy, indecisive, unmotivated, sleepy person.

    If anyone out there has some new info not mentioned in the JB thread, please share it.

    Thank you for reading and thanks to JB for posing the original thread
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Elizabeth Baldwin

    Elizabeth Baldwin Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    One thing to think about is when you smoked your body was taking in over 3000 toxins. Once you quit smoking those toxins abruptly stopped. This can have the same effect as someone who stops taking a long-term medicine or cold turkey stops drug abuse. Your body is now free of all those toxins and adjusting. However, it's been well over a year and anything related to quitting cigarettes should have remedied itself by now. It could even be depression. All of the symptoms you listed are symptoms of depression. Have you ever considered you could be suffering from that? Depression can come on strong and quickly. People have misconceptions about depression. They seem to think you need something really bad going on in your life to have depression. This isn't true at all. People can be very happy and satisfied with life one day and wake up the next day and not want to get out of bed.

    To be honest, I've been vaping for over 4 years and have never heard of anyone having the symptoms you have and it be related to vaping. Anything is possible though.

    I hope you get things all sorted out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 3, 2014
    United States
    1. Depending on your vaping style you can have (much?) more nicotine in your body than when your were smoking.
    2. You became older.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Hans Wermhat

    Hans Wermhat Vaping Master

    Jun 9, 2015
    Texas
    I have noticed the exact opposite of all the things you describe. I have more energy, feel better about myself and life in general, and my sex drive has increased. Vitamin D & C deficiency probably wouldn't explain your symptoms. Anemia or B vitamin deficiency might. Having a family history full of depression (and other mental disorders) though, I think @Elizabeth Baldwin could be right. All the symptoms you listed are textbook for depression. It's something you should definitely get check out though. Left untreated, depression can morph into more serious problems. Caught early, it's very manageable.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Biiovape

    Biiovape Full Member

    Dec 1, 2015
    United Kingdom
    I have felt the same lazyness when I quit smoking and started to vape and as Ms. Baldwin says, your body is adjusting...
    I would like to add:
    - Do you have the same kind of diet way (I mean did you change something in your way of eating/ drinking)? Drinking less or more coffee, less or more coke, fruit juice ...?
    When I was feeling lazy at the beginning I thought it was from the vape but not at all (in my opinion), I noticed that it came from the "diet".
    Drink more fruit juice (mix your own fruit (for good vitamins), drink 1 or 2 cups of coffee per day, drink as much water as you can.
    (vitamin C and almost all of those you find in fruits mean fuel and motivation)

    -regarding the vitamin D, most of the vitamin D (at least 30%) comes from the sun (even if it is cloudy), I was use to go outside for every cigarettes I smoked, I noticed that since I am vaping, I don't go outside anymore to take fresh air and sunbath.
    It was also part of the problem (vitamin D means positive mental)

    - the last part is only about thinking:
    if you think "CAUSING FATIGUE LAZINESS MALAISE", you already have a negative thought in your mind which is not helping at all and pull you down.

    Lets make it easy:
    - eat more fruit and drink a lot of water each day and a couple of cup of coffee
    - go out more often to take fresh air and sun
    - think positive, if you feel malaise or lazy,think that you will feel better after a couple of minutes: make yourself a cup of fresh orange juice, go outside for 5 minutes and you will already feel better.

    Moreover, this is HEALTHY (small add-on of the "I quit smoking" for a healthier life)

    Our body is mostly composed of water, and being dehydrated is one of the main reason of "CAUSING FATIGUE LAZINESS MALAISE"

    So do not forget the best rule/way of life: WATER means feeling BETTER.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. djsvapour

    djsvapour ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2012
    England and Wales
    A few comments

    More nicotine is kind of hard... unless you are really going at it.

    If you have any sort of sleep apnoea, that's going to trump e-cigs out of the game.
    (I know, because I have wasted much NHS time going down the same route - My entire family has levels of sleep apnoea. Two use masks, one a mouth guard. )

    Smoking has mild anti-depressant effects so if that's purely the nicotine, then vaping will match those needs.
    (I know, as I have dabbled in SSRT treatment). SSRTs zombie people out much worse than Nicotine, so it's a catch 22. Be happier, but be more sleepy - sometimes chronically so.


    I am not a doctor, but I say you are doing the right things. Stay quit smoking, stay off the drugs (if you are on SSRTs) live a healthy lifestyle.

    Your sleep WILL return to normal. Normal may be sometimes napping. I nap for 20-40 minutes. As a smoker I napped for twice that long, felt like the proverbial and crashed out as early as possible. As a Vaper, I get 8 to 8.5 hours sleep and feel better both morning and evening.

    The only way you will ever know for sure it to quit vaping. I'd put money on it having no effect, other than moods swings.

    Lastly, although the benefits of stopping smoking are noticable quickly, the full benefits come on 'strong' 2-4 years after. 18 months is not the 'end', I can assure you.
    36 months in and I'm 95% back to where I was in my 20s-30s in regards to sleep. I don't have much motivation, but it's not the e-cigs. I call that "life"..... When my kids have left home and I don't have a mortgage and bills to meet in the same way, I let you know. :)

    Good luck, whatever.

    Dave (in the same boat) J.S.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. djsvapour

    djsvapour ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2012
    England and Wales
    PS. James Blond quit smoking using Blu e-cigs in 2012. Those (back then) were close to being a placebo product.
    What bearing that has, I can't say, but I used E-Lites and it was the worst period of my life, ever. They did not provide much nicotine (we all know that now, as science has caught up) and my moods were entirely due to lack of nicotine.

    PPS. You haven't told us what sort of equipment you use, and the mg of nicotine.
    It may be possible you have reduced your nicotine intake. Go far enough with that and any benefits from nicotine could be lost to you.

    There is a thread on here about health benefits of nicotine. If I didn't use nicotine, I reckon I'd be back on the SSRTs.
     
  8. Juxtapose

    Juxtapose Full Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful replies.

    To Elizabeth and Hans: Depression came up in conversation when at the doctors but was dismissed as a cause of my sleep problems. The vitamin D deficiency makes sleep disorders worse and was my doctors diagnosis rather than my imagination. I later researched the papers of a Russian doctor who claimed ALL people referred to him with sleep disorders also had a vitamin D deficiency. Now i take 20,000iu daily. I sleep ok, but now I often nap in the day which I never did before the e-cigs. I did not have any vit B problems.

    To Alien and DJSvapour, I am using liquid from diamond mist or various strengths between 6mg and 24mg with an average mix of around 15mg combined with a CE5 clearomizer. It hangs around my neck and I puff on it very very often, so yes it could simply be too much nicotine dampening my energy.

    To Alien, sure I am older but a sudden decline in normal enthusiasm, energy without a good reason doesn't make sense to me.

    To Biiovape: I drink at least 10 cups of coffee a day and always have done. I never get dehydration. As I said, as my doctor diagnosed me as Vit D deficient so I take a lot of it now. Age reduced the bodies ability to make it and this is all related to sleep, DMT, vit D, serotonin etc in a big confusing loop of brain chemicals.

    The part CAUSING FATIGUE LAZINESS MALAISE was something I searched to find if others had this same experience and not something which I am fixated on thus causing my "depression". I also drink a lot of water and eat fruit. My diet is not much different than pre-vaping days.

    To DJSvapour, if goggled SSRT therapy but found nothing, so maybe you can explain the abbreviation?
    Note: The only drugs I am using are nicotine and caffeine.
    You might be right, the only way is to quit vaping a while and see if anything changes, but as we all know its a hard thing to do. The lack of motivation started around the time I started vaping, and I didn't fully quit fags until after alternating between vape and smoke for around 6 months. ( Hence my consideration that vaping is the cause of it all )

    Thanks again to all who have responded, it is good to hear the views of others who vape.
     
  9. LimJaheyyy

    LimJaheyyy Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2015
    Pittsburgh
    The only way im feeling lazier is that i don't have to get out of bed to smoke now lol.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. jensy

    jensy Super Member ECF Veteran

    Honestly, it sounds like depression. You listed very classic symptoms.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. mmsjs5

    mmsjs5 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2009
    Illinois
    I have experienced all your 'problems', plus a greater degree of what others call brain fog, my brain just plain quit working correctly. I would've been unsafe in my current job if I had continued with only vaping.

    It's not vaping that does it, it's your body missing all the 'extras' in cigarettes. I had to be a dual user for 3 years, until WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids) came along. Since my 1st vape with it, I felt a difference. I don't know if you can get it where you are, but if you can, I think it would help. It is closer to tobacco than plain nic. I still wasn't feeling what I call normal, so just recently added an amino acid supplement which is helping with motivation.

    Links to my WTA and aminos - Whole Tobacco Alkaloid WTA Eliquid Ejuice

    Anabol Naturals Amino Balance 1.1 lbs Pwdr - Swanson Health Products

    I hope you get it sorted out, and please keep us updated on the outcome of whatever you try. :)
     
  12. herb

    herb Vaping Master ECF Veteran


    I agree it sounds very much the symptoms of depression and don't rule out the mental aspect of hitting the 50 year old mark . Lots of people i know have spiraled downward when reaching the big 4 0 and 5 0 age .

    I don't think e cigs have anything to do with it actually , i have never heard of e cigs causing those symptoms in anybody .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Juxtapose

    Juxtapose Full Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Thanks MMSJS5, I am maybe craving for my aluminium dose. I read a bit about the WTAs and it did seem a logical thing to try.

    The problem is that nobody in UK sells it...so its expensive!! 1 bottle = $118 with shipping.

    1 Virginia Blend WTA $32.00
    Subtotal $32.00
    Shipping (Priority Mail International® Flat Rate) $86.25
    Tax $0.00
    Order Total $118.25

    To the man above named "herb" : Well the man who posted immediately above you had the symptoms and so did the original poster james blond, the issue is that you never read the posts so you never heard of anyone with those symptoms. Read and you will find many others. I reiterate, I am not depressed and my doctor did not diagnose depression.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. mmsjs5

    mmsjs5 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2009
    Illinois
    OUCH! What a shame. :(

    Have you ever thought about visiting the U.S.? ;)

    How about the aminos? Do you have access to anything like that where you are? If you can, that's where I'd start, they do help.
     
  15. crxess

    crxess Grumpy Ole Man Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 20, 2012
    Williamsport Md
    Mindset - You have changed 1 routine and Not adopted any further upgrades. More active lifestyle, Better diet, increased social activities.

    One likes to find things to blame when they become Benin.

    Why have your 4 mile runs not become 5 mile runs?
    Have you taken advantage of better health to increase cardio workouts?

    Maybe your mind just decided it is time to be lazy for a bit.

    I have never tried to Blame outside sources for my problems. Instead I adapt, make changes and continue on. I am the controller of me life.

    If you feel Vaping is holding you back - Quit. See if it makes a difference.
    You cannot solve a problem without making an actual change. Asking others does nothing to reach a solution for You as everyone has differences.

    62 and healthier than I was at 45 - Vape fairly heavy, but do everything I am capable of doing. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. djsvapour

    djsvapour ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2012
    England and Wales
    Sorry, that should say SSRI (wow, that's how long it's been!) (Glad to be free as well).

    15mg in a CE5 is low-level vaping, unless you are cracking through at least 4 tanks (?) a day.
    Guessing you are running it on a standard vape "pen" (eGO battery) then try not to build too much on your notion of "too much".

    Do you have a diamond mist kit? It might be only scratching the surface t.b.h.

    The yield is not the same - cigarette mg content vs vaping total nicotine.

    How many did you smoke, do you know the yield? (that's the manufacturers rating, using smoking robots, measured on a machine...)

    There are lots of question, many answers might lead nowhere, but we (everybody) can share experiences. I was totally useless without Nicotine - couldn't do a thing and almost self-destructed. It was my failure to convert to e-cigs that bought me here, to ECF.
    No thanks to the scam brands that ruin the e-cig industry and don't care a jot if people can actually stop smoking using their money-making junk.

    E-Lites, 10 Motives, Blu, VIP, Vapestick... you may as well not bother and go cold turkey for all the good they do.
     
  17. Juxtapose

    Juxtapose Full Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    To crxess: I notice you assume many things incorrectly about my lifestyle diet and running habits. I notice a critical and condescending tone. I see nothing helpful in your message other than to help boost your own ego by way of using the forum as a way to engage in an authority drama by saying how wonderful you are and criticizing others.

    FYI
    I add 1 minute onto my runs each time I go, due to a knee injury I had to cut them down from 6 miles to 2 miles and now I am increasing gradually again. Such information was not relevant to this post ( and still is not ).
    My social life increasing or decreasing in activity?? My diet?? Do you assume I eat from a garbage bin and live as a social leper?
    You are 62 and still think you can tell people how to live? Not wise enough to see your problem is that your life is such that you need to spend your time making posts to amuse yourself and not doing any good to anyone in this forum thread? You might try to follow your own advice instead of giving it to others as it is useless. Why are you even here? You have already made it to perfection in your life, talking like a super star giving an interview. Does anyone need the advice your dish out? You are the controller...a legend in your own mind.

    To djsvapour, no I have never taken serotonin or anti-depressants apart from a course of zyban which was peddled as an anti smoking cure about 6 years ago and didn't work. I smoked about 40 a day for 35 years Malrboro lights before and now I get through about 4 to 7 millilitres of 15mg strength e-liquid per day.

    I dont know the equivalence comparison. Yes it is an eGO battery, so according to you I am low level vaping.
    I am sorry to hear you could not convert to e-cigs yet, one of the guys above wrote about e liquids containing whole tobacco alkaloids (wta) which is supposed to deliver a more realistic smoking experience. I havent tried it though.

    To mmsjs5. I thought those amino supplements were mainly for atheletes and body builders? What makes you think they will be beneficial in this case?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. djsvapour

    djsvapour ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2012
    England and Wales
    I have tried WTA liquids. I think I was too late to the party having already been smoking tobacco free for 18 months. Not for me.

    I DID quit. (No fear on that one...)

    4-7ml of 15mg isn't low-level vaping.... sorry to not make that distinction.

    I thought you might have been vaping 2 or 3 tanks a day... you are not.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Juxtapose

    Juxtapose Full Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    To djsvapour: So you think I am a heavy user by vaping 4-7 mls of liquid per day? I had previously reckoned I would use more than most people as I was a very heavy smoker before.

    High nicotine in the blood stream travels around the body inside the oxygen "compartments" within the blood as there is nowhere else for it to go. So maybe that is the problem. ( High nicotine = low oxygen = low energy and low motivation) This effect is seen in the movie Das boot after 15 hours stuck on the bottom of the sea, they all looked very miserable.

    I don't know what the size of a "tank" is but I fill my clearomizer up many times per day and puff away all day.

    Thanks for the input, its good to hear others experiences as you say we can all learn from each other.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. mmsjs5

    mmsjs5 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2009
    Illinois
    A quote from Amino acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , which is not where I researched, but is condensed into a better form than what I can say. 'Outside proteins, amino acids perform critical roles in processes such as neurotransmitter transport and biosynthesis.'

    They are helping me with my motivation in doing anything. I don't have to FORCE myself, every day, to do stuff.
     
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