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Juul suspends sale of flavored products

Discussion in 'Media and General News' started by Rossum, Oct 17, 2019.

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  1. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    Deer Camp
    • Funny Funny x 3
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  2. mackman

    mackman Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2013
    NorCal
    Here in the People's Republic of California we now have lawyer commercials for suits against Juul for addicting you to nicotine.
     
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  3. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
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  4. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    To be fair they never had any array of fruity flavors.. They had 4 flavors outside of tobacco, mint and menthol and they likely couldn't currently consider the expense of FDA approval on each one so they kill two birds with one stone..

    They get to look like kiss-asses who "care" while making a move they were likely to make anyway (pairing down what they will send for approval) - win win for Juul.
     
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  5. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    Deer Camp
    You're right, they only had two that were technically fruit flavors:
    • Mango (hugely popular, but was introduced long after I decided Juul wasn't my thing in 2015)
    • Fruit (I didn't care it for a whole lot despite liking fruity flavors in general)

    In addition they had:
    • Creme (that pretty good in 2015, technically not a fruit, but a "dessert".
    • Cucumber (also introduced past my time).

    The above are all gone now. What they have left:
    • Classic Tobacco (I hated that)
    • Virginia Tobacco (introduced after my time)
    • Menthol (I never tried it; I suspect I still have unopened pods that came in their sampler pack)
    • Mint (introduced after my time, hugely popular)

    A few million dollars for a PMTA for each flavor is nothing to Juul. My guess is, they decided (or were informed) that would be a waste of money because the FDA simply wouldn't approve them.

    Yeah...

    And now there's this:

     
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  6. Izan

    Izan Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 1, 2012
    Mallorca, Spain
    • Useful Useful x 3
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  7. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    dang..
     
  8. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    @Rossum – you seem well versed on this subject, is the cost for PMTA in the millions? My searches have come up with conflicting answers. Admittedly I do not understand the whole process – I get the approval portion, but why such a high cost? What happens to companies with dozens upon dozens of SKU’s?


    BTW – Juul Canada still sells flavours. No Crème but we do have Vanilla. Mmmmmm vanilla :drool:
     
  9. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Dec 14, 2013
    Deer Camp
    It's unclear. IIRC, the FDA estimated $300-some-thousand per item. But very few PMTAs have ever been filed, and only two have ever been approved (one for some Swedish Snus, the other for IQOS). I'm confident those two cost well into the millions to prepare.

    Due to all the "research" that's necessary to show that each product is "appropriate for the protection of public health".

    They go out of business.
     
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  10. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Thanks.

    Does this apply for imported product as well? I know there are a handful of Canadian e-juice manufactures who’s largest customer base is the US
     
  11. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    It affects imports as well. Any manufacturers wanting to sell to customers inside the U.S. will need FDA approval to do so..

    Of course, that only applies to people wanting to sell their products legally....
     
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  12. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Thanks.

    And yes, the legal vs black market is very understandable which begs to question the whole PMTA process and objective. By pricing the “research” well beyond the means of many companies that cater to a 10+ million user industry is only feeding the illegal markets they wish to eradicate (or at least mitigate). I feel the vape industry will survive come the PMTA deadline and aftermath, but the industry as a whole and worldwide will receive a good hard kick in gonads due to it.
     
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  13. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
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  14. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Dec 14, 2013
    Deer Camp
    Right, but the FDA has no power to enforce its regulations against a vendor outside the USA. Realistically, the most they can attempt to do is to stop the shipment at the border.

    Some years ago, we had the opposite situation. Nicotine liquids were illegal in Canada. certain US vendors would try to ship to Canada anyway. Some packages got through, some did not.
     
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  15. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    And that's why I pointed out "legally".. Not everyone will comply..
     
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  16. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    So I understand the FDA cannot enforce their regulations outside the US. That’s just logical! But if a foreign country wishes to import into the US, do they have to apply to PMTA and receive approval in order to do so? Relying on sneaking through US customs is not sustainable business plan.
     
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  17. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    Deer Camp
    I'm not a lawyer of any real expert on these matters, but my understanding is that the FDA considers the PMTA to be the responsibility of the importer. Some US entity has to be the importer of record. I suppose a foreign company could submit the PMTA, although it's hard to imagine one with sufficient resources and market in the US who didn't have a US subsidiary of some sort to handle the importation and interaction with the FDA.
     
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  18. nomore stinkies

    nomore stinkies Gee, Who did that? ECF Veteran

    Feb 23, 2014
    IL
    Have you followed Regulator Watch on you tube? He covered the NGO vs FDA where the FDA lost the case. That was in June but there may be something that will explain this mess. Vaping360. England and Canada legalized it. What is our problem? AHA, ALA. Hhmmm?
     
  19. Joey B Vapor

    Joey B Vapor New Member

    May 31, 2018
    If you want to pick your own flavor, get great quality, and refillable pods go to Next Level Pods. I love them and save a lot of money vs Juul pods.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    JUUL just Can't seem to Get Out of it's Own Way.

    Juul’s about-face is believed to be the first time a corporation has invested millions of dollars into a San Francisco ballot measure, only to withdraw its support shortly before voting begins, said Jon Golinger, a San Francisco political consultant who teaches election law at Golden Gate University. In the rare instances when a ballot measure backer has withdrawn their effort before an election, it was because the issue was resolved or the measure became moot, he said.

    “That is historic,” Golinger said. “A colossal failure of a ballot measure campaign that will go into the history books as a cautionary tale for corporations attempting to use the ballot box this way in the future.”


    Juul ends support for Prop. C, SF measure to overturn e-cigarette sales ban
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

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