Keeping bulk of flavor/essence

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mamamiaw

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Hi,
I just purchased couple 16oz and litters of flavor, cap, tfa and such.
My room temperature except when i'm in it is 28-32 C (except when i'm home and i turn on the air con).

Should i keep the bulk of flavor in a cupboard (which might be bit hotter at noon) or should i move them to refrigerator? I kept my nic on freezer but i kind of doubt to keep the flavor inside too.

Thank you in advance.
 

Alter

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I'd cut them into smaller bottles so they weren't exposed to air too much every time you opened to make a mix. I bought a crap load of tobaccos and some other flavor concentrates a couple years back when the FDA began to descend their hammer. I took them all out of the plastic jugs and into glass and broke down the large bottles. Put them into the freezer and so far the few I've pulled out are just fine. As long as there is no alcohol smell in the flavoring then freezing should be ok. I did a afternoon of research and found no negative about freezing pg based concentrates. I wrapped a couple rounds of construction paper then tape so no glass on glass in the freezer.
Pulling the large jugs in and out of the fridge, constantly open and closing thus warm air replacing the cold air will cause condensation inside the bottle and thats whats going to ruin the concentrate by maybe going rancid so cutting into smaller portions is the best way to go.
 

IDJoel

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@mamamiaw,
You might want to read what TFA has to say about storage: https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/shelf_life.pdf
It is a short article; which provides a good basic understanding of how concentrates behave.

Minimizing exposure to air (avoiding excessive headspace<the empty part of the bottle>; frequent opening of the bottle), exposure to heat (cooler is better than hotter... though excessive cold can lead to separation/crystallization dependent on specific composition), and exposure to light (ultraviolet to be specific; which can accelerate oxidation), always seem to be prudent practices.
 

BrotherBob

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Hi,
I just purchased couple 16oz and litters of flavor, cap, tfa and such.
My room temperature except when i'm in it is 28-32 C (except when i'm home and i turn on the air con).
Should i keep the bulk of flavor in a cupboard (which might be bit hotter at noon) or should i move them to refrigerator? I kept my nic on freezer but i kind of doubt to keep the flavor inside too.
Thank you in advance.
If I have not welcome you before, welcome and glad you joined.
I would refrigerate (not freeze) if you plan to keep any flavor for more than 9 months. If you plan to use up the flavor within 9 months, 28-32 C should be fine without refrigeration and A/C when at home. It's all about keeping the flavors away from high heat, any light, and ambient air.
 

jdy

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If I have not welcome you before, welcome and glad you joined.
I would refrigerate (not freeze) if you plan to keep any flavor for more than 9 months. If you plan to use up the flavor within 9 months, 28-32 C should be fine without refrigeration and A/C when at home. It's all about keeping the flavors away from high heat, any light, and ambient air.

HI, Do flavors go bad or expire? If I don't use them within 9 months but keep them in the refrigerator, there's no expiration date on them but you figure everything breaks down at some point.
All experienced advise is appreciated.
Thanks jdy
 
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BrotherBob

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HI, Do flavors go bad or expire?
Some flavors change after first mixed at the blender. Change may not mean necessarily mean bad or good. All flavors will expire. Bad and good depends on the taster.
If I don't use them within 9 months but keep them in the refrigerator, there's no expiration date on them but you figure everything breaks down at some point.
I image 9 month is just TFA's best guess (change indicator) for all their flavors and just a general rule that covers most of their product line t(he way I read it). Weak flavors shorter shelf life, stronger flavors longer shelf life. The bigger the air pocket in (size of bottle matters)bottle, shorter shelf life, full unopened bottle, longer shelf life. Heat excites molecules and causes them to seek change. Not sure what UV does but must be something in the molecular structure to cause change. I'm no expert, just my read on it.
 

IDJoel

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Guess after 9 months I'll watch for changes maybe partials floating around or changes in appearance or smell!! Then I'd know to toss it :)
This is just my own personal experience:
I have over 300 different concentrates in my current inventory. Of those, some 70-80 of them are anywhere from 2-3 years old. I should also note that most of these 70(ish) are 8-10mL sample-size, and are in glass vials with poly-cone caps. (Important; because this is near optimal storage conditions. Larger containers, plastic containers, poorly sealed caps may have had entirely different results). They have all been stored on a shelf in a cool dark linen closet, in the center of the house, since they were purchased.

Of those 70+ concentrates, I have some that I detect no noticeable difference (of course this could be because I don't use them often; and I don't have a good recollection of how they tasted originally;)), others that seem pretty much the same but weaker (for some the weakness is minor; while others are significant), while others now taste "different" (meaning that originally one part of the flavor was prominent; and now something else has taken over center-stage).

Flavor concentrates, as long as you are buying them from any of the established "major" manufacturers (e.g. FA, CAP, TFA, INW, HS, SC, FLV, etc.), do not "spoil" (as in; mold, rot, decay, putrefy). They only need to be tossed once they become no longer useful/enjoyable to you.

Also, regarding crystallization (particles forming in the concentrate); I have had this happen on occasion, and when it does, it is no big deal. I just shake vigorously, or give it 5-10 minutes in the ultrasonic in lukewarm water, and it remains perfectly usable. I do use heat very sparingly; as I am always paranoid about needlessly driving off the more volatile components.

Again; this is only my own experience; others may share entirely different experiences, and I would encourage you to consider them just as valid.:D
 

jdy

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HI, Thank you IDJoel! Your examples here and sharing your preferences and experiences are great, very helpful. Possibly I won't ever have to toss any. I think since I live in Phoenix AZ where our temperatures do get extremely high I'm going to stick with the refrigerator for storage of my flavors. But maybe I should find a dark case for them so every time the fridge light comes on it won't affect them. I should also start looking for glass vials and replace the plastic bottles that manufacturer distributes them in. Thank you!!
 

mamamiaw

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Mar 25, 2017
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39
78
I'd cut them into smaller bottles so they weren't exposed to air too much every time you opened to make a mix. I bought a crap load of tobaccos and some other flavor concentrates a couple years back when the FDA began to descend their hammer. I took them all out of the plastic jugs and into glass and broke down the large bottles. Put them into the freezer and so far the few I've pulled out are just fine. As long as there is no alcohol smell in the flavoring then freezing should be ok. I did a afternoon of research and found no negative about freezing pg based concentrates. I wrapped a couple rounds of construction paper then tape so no glass on glass in the freezer.
Pulling the large jugs in and out of the fridge, constantly open and closing thus warm air replacing the cold air will cause condensation inside the bottle and thats whats going to ruin the concentrate by maybe going rancid so cutting into smaller portions is the best way to go.

Hi, thanks for the tips.
I plan to use most of these flavors for big batches in a week or two, and currently putting it in fridge, not too cold but not warm definetely.
Will keep in mind regardinng the space between bottles and the solution/flavor. Thanks!

@mamamiaw,
You might want to read what TFA has to say about storage: https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/shelf_life.pdf
It is a short article; which provides a good basic understanding of how concentrates behave.

Minimizing exposure to air (avoiding excessive headspace<the empty part of the bottle>; frequent opening of the bottle), exposure to heat (cooler is better than hotter... though excessive cold can lead to separation/crystallization dependent on specific composition), and exposure to light (ultraviolet to be specific; which can accelerate oxidation), always seem to be prudent practices.

Read it just now, thank you very much!

If I have not welcome you before, welcome and glad you joined.
I would refrigerate (not freeze) if you plan to keep any flavor for more than 9 months. If you plan to use up the flavor within 9 months, 28-32 C should be fine without refrigeration and A/C when at home. It's all about keeping the flavors away from high heat, any light, and ambient air.
Thanks for the warm welcome.
Yes, I plan to use most of these flavors for big batches in a week or two, so i can now safely assume whether it's in a cupboard on my room or fridge, both are fine method for keeping.

Thank you!


This is just my own personal experience:
I have over 300 different concentrates in my current inventory. Of those, some 70-80 of them are anywhere from 2-3 years old. I should also note that most of these 70(ish) are 8-10mL sample-size, and are in glass vials with poly-cone caps. (Important; because this is near optimal storage conditions. Larger containers, plastic containers, poorly sealed caps may have had entirely different results). They have all been stored on a shelf in a cool dark linen closet, in the center of the house, since they were purchased.

Of those 70+ concentrates, I have some that I detect no noticeable difference (of course this could be because I don't use them often; and I don't have a good recollection of how they tasted originally;)), others that seem pretty much the same but weaker (for some the weakness is minor; while others are significant), while others now taste "different" (meaning that originally one part of the flavor was prominent; and now something else has taken over center-stage).

Flavor concentrates, as long as you are buying them from any of the established "major" manufacturers (e.g. FA, CAP, TFA, INW, HS, SC, FLV, etc.), do not "spoil" (as in; mold, rot, decay, putrefy). They only need to be tossed once they become no longer useful/enjoyable to you.

Also, regarding crystallization (particles forming in the concentrate); I have had this happen on occasion, and when it does, it is no big deal. I just shake vigorously, or give it 5-10 minutes in the ultrasonic in lukewarm water, and it remains perfectly usable. I do use heat very sparingly; as I am always paranoid about needlessly driving off the more volatile components.

Again; this is only my own experience; others may share entirely different experiences, and I would encourage you to consider them just as valid.:D

300?? Woaaa, that's so cool.
Thanks for sharing.
 

IDJoel

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I think since I live in Phoenix AZ where our temperatures do get extremely high I'm going to stick with the refrigerator for storage of my flavors.
If the house gets warm; that could be a good idea. Just remember; the colder you keep your concentrates, the greater the chance of precipitation (crystals/solids forming). This is completely dependent on each individual concentrate, and most likely you will have no problem with the majority of your inventory. But, if you have any that become obnoxious (because you are having to constantly shake the crystals back into suspension), you can always move those stubborn ones to a cabinet, cupboard, or pantry.
But maybe I should find a dark case for them so every time the fridge light comes on it won't affect them.
You can... if it makes you feel better about it; but I wouldn't be too worried about it. I am not even sure how vulnerable any given concentrate is to light in general (nicotine has some legitimate risk; but concentrates seem to be more hit and miss). I think(?) it is primarily ultraviolet that is the villain here (if any at all). and if your fridge is like most found in the US; it uses an incandescent light bulb, which is not a significant source of UV. Natural sunlight is what you want to avoid. Well that..., and your black-light you keep, for those cool 60's glow-in-the-dark posters (j.k.;))
I should also start looking for glass vials and replace the plastic bottles that manufacturer distributes them in. Thank you!!
Think about what will work best for you. This is one I personally struggle with. I "know" and understand how, and why, glass is better. But, because I happen to mix by weight (use a scale), I like the convenience of the plastic dropper bottles. I could use pipettes, or syringes, or even eye droppers (but never as caps), but that kind of defeats the hassle-free convenience of mixing by weight.

So, for me, I have chosen to sacrifice some possible extra longevity, in exchange for the convenience. This does not mean the same choice is necessarily correct for anyone else; but it is what works best for me at this time in my DIY journey. (It also suits my cheap, lazy nature; by not having to buy extra bottles, transfer product, and then label everything.:pervy:)

Every DIYer should always search for, and then do, what works best for them; not just because "that's what the masses are doing!" That is the beauty of DIY; there are so many ways to make it our own.
:D:thumbs::D
 

NicotineRush

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@IDJoel: This portion of the TFA Shelf Life doc was rather enlightening. Thanks.

"Please know that it is not a good idea to store the flavors with plastic eyedropper caps on the bottles.The rubber that's used with the eyedroppers is extremely soft and interacts with a great many materials. If you try to store your flavors with these rubber dropper caps attached you will most likely ruin both the caps and the flavors."
 

IDJoel

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@IDJoel: This portion of the TFA Shelf Life doc was rather enlightening. Thanks.

"Please know that it is not a good idea to store the flavors with plastic eyedropper caps on the bottles.The rubber that's used with the eyedroppers is extremely soft and interacts with a great many materials. If you try to store your flavors with these rubber dropper caps attached you will most likely ruin both the caps and the flavors."
Yeah, and they're not the only ones to have mentioned this. One of the professional chemists on ECF (@Kurt), has discussed how air-permeable the soft rubber of eye droppers are, as well. To add to the potential problem; the rubber of the bulb is often flared under the cap, so it also creates the seal for cap to bottle too.:(
 

jdy

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I love that though our e-cigarettes and e-juice are way safer than cigarettes there are places we can be watchful and cut chemical reactions back!!

The Perfumers Apprentice does post many very informative articles on their website they are really great!

I have several flavors I seem to be sensitive to if I use them I break out in a rash with some and get itchy with others. Unflavored high vg seems fine no reactions. But checking the different flavors and exactly what goes into them is SO AMAZING!! The Perfumers Apprentice was kind enough to send this link and this helped me to research the flavors trying to find commonalities between specific ones.

It is very interesting showing so much that goes into one flavor!
Perfumer's Apprentice

Thanks to Perfumers Apprentice and all their hard work - this link is for information only click on the components column "list" of the flavor you're researching.
 
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