Life Insurance w/Vaping: Canada Specific

[Fitdiculous]

SO I just got my first PV kit and liking it so far (will be ordering juice with nic in it soon).

My question is, as I couldn't find anything on this forum pertaining to Canadian specific life insurance, are we considered smokers?

I know it varies state to state in the US, just wasn't sure about Canada or even Ontario for that matter (if it differs in provinces?). I'm 30, don't have life insurance, but the wife and I are going to sign up very soon. Anyone have experience with this?

 

[Switched]

The simple answer to:

• are you a smoker = No;
• are you a non-smoker = Yes; and
• Do you smoke cigarettes = No

My insurance carrier requires you to be nicotine free for a year, but that was with cigarettes. They did a tongue swab. Basically you sucked on a sort of tongue depressor for 1 min, so I do not know about vaping. But the aforementioned answers can be answered in all honesty. My other insurance carrier is cigarette specific, pipe and cigars do not qualify you as a smoker.

My first carrier also stated they would not up my premiums if I started again. There qualifier for a reduced premium was to be smoke free for a year. They stated why anyone would want to take up the habit after that is beyond them.

So when they asked smoker or non-smoker, the answer is non-smoker and go from there.

 

[Fitdiculous]

I'm guessing it'll vary with each ins company... from reading some other threads some ask "are you a tobacco user" or "are you a nicotine user" ... if you answer NO to either, and they test and see that you have traces, then you can be denied... again not sure if this is more applicable to the US or not. I'm probably more concerned with what happens if I get the "non smoking" rates, but I become ill and they test for nicotine and find some (if I'm vaping nicjuice at that time). Will they outright deny the claim? am I SOL?

I forgot add, I will be submitting my application as a smoker regardless (we will be getting Life insurance within the next couple of months) as I have not been analog free for the past year (I think that's their requirement to be classified as a non-smoker). But it's the year later that I'm curious about...

 

[jj2]

I know in the states, one of the questions is "Have you smoked in the last year?"
Sometimes it's even longer, but if you say yes, be prepared to pay big time.

 

[Fitdiculous]

I know in the states, one of the questions is "Have you smoked in the last year?"
Sometimes it's even longer, but if you say yes, be prepared to pay big time.

which is fine.. I don't have a choice really if that's the case, but I'll bite the bullet for a year and then apply as a non-smoker the following year. It's the afterthought of being denied the claim or still being paying smoker's rate because I've switched to Vaping and still using nicotine that concerns me more

 

[Can_supplier]

which is fine.. I don't have a choice really if that's the case, but I'll bite the bullet for a year and then apply as a non-smoker the following year.

If you'll bite the bullet then there is no harm in asking them, its not like the question can raise your rates any if you are already paying smoker rates.

 

[Fitdiculous]

just a bit of an update on this matter since I'm applying for life insurance right now. Some things I've noticed:

- Since I smoked at least ONE cigaratte in the past year I am considered a SMOKER, and will be charged SMOKER rates for at least 1 year or when I'm eligible for non smoker rates (being NICOTINE free for 1 year)

- Insurance companies don't care if you've smoked 40+ years or had 1 cigarette, if you had 1 in the past year, you will start off with smoker rates

- There is no distinction between nicotine from a PV, patch, gum, cigar or cigarette. If they find amounts of nicotine in your system you are considered a smoker. Now some companies "allow" you to have a few (6-12) Cigars a year, but from what my broker said, if you had a cigar the day before the exam and they found nicotine (which they will), you will be considered a smoker ... even if you haven't TOUCHED a cigarette for the past year

- If you're nicotine free for a year, and you apply for non-smoker rates you will be granted that. And you can start smoking or using a smoking cessation device and still be eligible and fine. They do have a 2 year clause though that says if you happen to die within those 2 years because of a SMOKING related illness they could pay-out less than what your policy states

So the common theme seems to be you got to be NICOTINE free for a year... they're reasoning is if you're relying on a smoking cessation device that deliver's nicotine, you are more likely to go back to smoking because you're hooked on the nicotine. Absurd? just a bit... I guess it's the insurance company's way of saving their ..., and discriminating against the smoker or ex smoker.

I've been cigarette free for almost 3 months now... but have been vaping regularly between 18-24 mg (not sure how much a day maybe 2ml?), but I will have to wait a year from my application to be able to even apply for non-smoker status. I'll see how my medical results are when I try vaping 0nic juice for a week or two, cuz I don't know how I can do it for the next year (being at 0nic or quitting vaping all together).

Switched what company are you with that says you have to be nicotine free ONLY WITH cigarettes? how can they tell if the nicotine in your system is from cigarettes or other nicotine delivering devices for that matter?

 

[Switched]

SISSIP which was for Armed Forces Personnel. The question is do you smoke cigarettes? Pipe and cigars = OK. But I wouldn't put all my trust in that, as you stated it counts when it is time to pay, and after your dead it is too late.

The other one, with the nicotine test, I was told is extremely sensitive, I don't know. there was no 2 year clause though.

 

[Gummy Bear]

I found this the other day and put it together from 2 or 3 web sites so don't quote me on this but,,,
Nicotine or its primary metabolite, cotinine are most often tested to evaluate tobacco use. but in the case of NRT a test for Anabasine could be used. Anabasine is present in tobacco but not in commercial nicotine replacement products. If a sample tests positive for anabasine, then the person is still using tobacco products.

(unless it is present in the tobacco flavoring used for e-juice,,, I don't know).

 

[Fitdiculous]

SISSIP which was for Armed Forces Personnel. The question is do you smoke cigarettes? Pipe and cigars = OK. But I wouldn't put all my trust in that, as you stated it counts when it is time to pay, and after your dead it is too late.

The other one, with the nicotine test, I was told is extremely sensitive, I don't know. there was no 2 year clause though.

If you don't mind me asking, do you currently have life insurance? like with these guys? if so are you paying smoking rates?

 

[Fitdiculous]

I found this the other day and put it together from 2 or 3 web sites so don't quote me on this but,,,
Nicotine or its primary metabolite, cotinine are most often tested to evaluate tobacco use. but in the case of NRT a test for Anabasine could be used. Anabasine is present in tobacco but not in commercial nicotine replacement products. If a sample tests positive for anabasine, then the person is still using tobacco products.

(unless it is present in the tobacco flavoring used for e-juice,,, I don't know).

interesting... good to know... however I think the issue is still with having full disclosure, and if you say you've had nicotine in the past year you will be considered a smoker. I don't think they'll test for Anabasine even if you tell them you're on NRT, at least that is my understanding from what my broker said.....

 

[Switched]

If you don't mind me asking, do you currently have life insurance? like with these guys? if so are you paying smoking rates?

My rates nearly tripled when I got out. I was paying smoking rates. I terminated that policy for other reasons (term) I am paying smoking rates on another policy. What I did instead was start a spousal RRSP with the premiums, after 20 years I still have my money which gained interest.

 

[kanadiankat]

Sounds like an issue worth fighting. Insurance rates are increased for smokers BECAUSE of the high risk of cancer. Nicotine, on it's own, has about the same carcinogenic levels as Pepsi or Coke.

Testing for Nicotine - as an indicator of risk - shouldn't be allowed. Any idea who we can complain to in Canada to change this?

 

[Fitdiculous]

Sounds like an issue worth fighting. Insurance rates are increased for smokers BECAUSE of the high risk of cancer. Nicotine, on it's own, has about the same carcinogenic levels as Pepsi or Coke.

Testing for Nicotine - as an indicator of risk - shouldn't be allowed. Any idea who we can complain to in Canada to change this?

I don't think there's much we can do I agree with you, but insurance companies really have us "by the balls" ... they assess risk, and assume if we're dependent on nicotine, there's a greater chance of GOING BACK TO cigarettes..

 

[Gummy Bear]

And there's a good chance that they never even gave vaping a single thought too. I'd bet some of them never heard about us.

 

[Switched]

I don't think there's much we can do I agree with you, but insurance companies really have us "by the balls" ... they assess risk, and assume if we're dependent on nicotine, there's a greater chance of GOING BACK TO cigarettes..

... and that is about the size of it.

 

[km11219]

In my case, they checked for cotinine in my blood. I had already told them that I was a smoker, so paid smokers rate. For some other reason I got my blood test report from them and sure cotinine was higher than the normal range. Anyway, after some time, I applied with another company and got very good smoker rate (less than half than that from the first company). So I switched the companies. A nice insurance broker was very helpful in this regard.

 

[Fitdiculous]

With respect to the cotinine found in your system was that from smoking or vaping? if vaping, how much do you vape a day and at what mg levels?

Do you ever plan on applying for non-smoker rates? and if you don't mind me asking, which insurance company did you go with for the better smoker's rates?

In my case, they checked for cotinine in my blood. I had already told them that I was a smoker, so paid smokers rate. For some other reason I got my blood test report from them and sure cotinine was higher than the normal range. Anyway, after some time, I applied with another company and got very good smoker rate (less than half than that from the first company). So I switched the companies. A nice insurance broker was very helpful in this regard.

 

[km11219]

Cotinine in my blood was from smoking 2/3 analogs. I was cutting down at that time and had not found ecigs. I still smoke 2ish along with vaping (24mg). However, for last few days my cravings are decreasing, even for the ecig (cutting 24mg with vg). I hope it stays like. Anyway, the ins company you ask for is industrial_alliance. They also do the blood test. I believe they too look for cotinine levels, which comes from nicotine whether from cigs or ecigs (however, I have not seen the test report from them so am not sure). So I am stuck with smokers rate. If you want I can pm you my brokers contact info.