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Liquid calculator (quantity, proportions, price, union of two liquids, correction of a liquid)

Discussion in 'General E-Liquid Discussion' started by Piccolo Chimico, Jan 11, 2020.

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  1. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    I would like to share with you, if allowed, a calculator that I made a couple of years ago (at the time I published it on another vaping forum).
    During this time I never re-released it, but I still made several updates to use it myself.
    Currently, the features that the calculator has are as follows:
    • Calculation of the quantities and proportions for the preparation of a liquid for electronic cigarettes (PG, VG, H2O, flavour and nicotine), starting from the quantity of flavour to be used.
    • Calculation of the quantities and proportions for the preparation of a liquid for electronic cigarettes (PG, VG, H2O, flavour and nicotine), starting from the total quantity of liquid to be obtained.
    • Calculation of the single and total cost of PG, VG, H2O, flavour and nicotine that have been used for the creation of a specific liquid.
    • Calculation of the quantities and proportions of a liquid resulting from the union of two available liquids.
    • Calculation that allows you to "adjust" a liquid available to make it become with different characteristics chosen by the user.
    • Various reference prices.
    • Other small additional features.
    In the hope that it will be useful to someone, I ask you if you can write me below in case you find mistakes.

    Thank you!



    LINK
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 2
  2. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    LINK UPDATED

    Now there is also the Microsoft Office version.
    The Microsoft Office version I have no way to try it, so if it does not appear as in the preview images, or it does not work at all, please install LibreOffice on your system. Thank you!

    At this link instead, a coil calculator by the same author.

    P.S.: If some moderator reads me: is it possible to have permanent permission to modify the initial post of this thread, so as not to have to publish a new message for each update of the file?
    Thank you in advance!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Falconeer

    Falconeer Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 27, 2015
    Hawick, Scotland.
    Once again you have laboured mightily at this one - and how well you have chosen your avatar of Piccolo Chimico!
     
  4. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    Thank you very much!! :D :lol::toast:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Applaud your efforts, but if willing to accept opinions, the calculator should allow mixing by volume and by mass. It should also allow the addition of individual flavourings that are being used in the mix.

    Also developed my own calculator, but mine allows up to 17 flavours and gives results for both volume and mass by just entering the percentage I wish to use. Given I only use 65mg/ml nicotine and prefer this to be VG based, I have simplified the calculator by hardcoding these values which will automatically adjust the PG percentage based on how much flavouring is used and my goal VG.

    Also included the option to allow the bottle to be weighed. This allows me to weigh the juice after a certain amount has been consumed, subtract the weight of the bottle and come up with an accurate volume of the remaining juice and it’s ingredients to which I can modify if needed and with great detail through a separate modify calculator.

    Contemplated developing and incorporating an inventory management but felt the efforts were too great. I may add it later.

    Calculator.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Falconeer

    Falconeer Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 27, 2015
    Hawick, Scotland.
    If you look at your own posts there'll be an edit button at the bottom - could you not just go back into your original post take out the page you want to modify and replace it with the new one?

    I've done this with pictures where I've put the wrong one in and needed to replace it ... but I'm not an expert and have never done it with a document.
     
  7. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    There is a time frame at which you are allowed to edit a past post. Do not know what that time frame is, but I cannot edit posts made last Sunday, 4 days ago.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Falconeer

    Falconeer Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 27, 2015
    Hawick, Scotland.
    Ah well, seemed a good idea at the time. I went back to one of my last year's posts just to see - and indeed no edit button. What is it they say - "Every day's a schoolday!?"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    Oh good idea to manage quantities by weight, I hadn't thought of it, congratulations! :toast:
    I didn't understand one thing about your calculator: does it allow the user to set their own proportions of PG, VG and possibly H2O and nicotine?
     
  10. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    To note, the calculator was written for me. I do not use H2O in my mixes so there was no need for me to include it within the calculator. Also, because I use the same nicotine, I simplified the calculator by hard coding it’s values. I can change the amount of nicotine, but can’t change the content of the nicotine base. But both H2O and different nicotine base can be added if I wish.

    The calculator allows you to enter a VG %. From that it automatically calculates PG. No point in allowing both values to be entered, that leaves room for error. You can never have 70% VG and 31 or greater % PG.

    It works by entering in your amount in ml. Enter your VG and enter your Nic level. From that it will calculate Nicotine, VG and PG values in percentage, volume and mass. As you enter your flavours in percentage, because flavours are all PG based, the PG value automatically adjusts based on your flavour percentage. It will then calculate flavours in volume and mass.

    Yes some flavours come in a VG base, but again I do not use them so did not develop VG based flavours into the calculator. Should I acquire VG based flavours, an easy adjustment can be made.

    I also developed a separate modification calculator. By weighing a mix and removing the weight of the bottle, I now have a very accurate volume of what is remaining including detail amounts of VG, PG, Nic and flavour in both volume and mass. Should I wish to add more flavour, another flavour(s) or even dilute the existing mix (decreasing the flavour), it will calculate all needed values to achieve my goal.
     
  11. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    Great, nice job!
    The tools made for ourselves are always the ones that fit us best, giving extremely precise results, as in your case.
    In my case instead, I tried to do something more general that can also be used by those who use percentages different from mine of PG, VG, nicotine, flavours and possibly H2O (which changes the proportions of the first two, for that the user needs to enter all the values).
     
  12. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Using a desired VG percentage automatically dictates the PG content.

    Adding nicotine should automatically adjust PG, VG or both depending on its content.
    (To note: Nicotine base should also automatically adjust its content based on the percentage of a single ingredient. You cannot have 51% VG and 50% PG nic, but your calculator allows it)

    Adding H20 will automatically dilute both VG and PG equally.

    Adding PG flavourings will automatically adjust the PG base

    Adding VG flavourings will automatically adjust the VG base

    All of the above must equal 100%.

    Your calculator allows any value to be entered into any position. This allows user error to which you calculator does not identify where that error is other than the mix can not be achieved. It assumes the user knows and can calculate on their own the proper percentages for both nic and juice base. This defeats the purpose of a calculator.
     
  13. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    No, wait a minute.
    My calculator automatically detects when the user enters values that exceed 100%, communicating it next to "Is this mixture achievable?": If the total exceeds 100%, "No" will appear.
    In addition, the presence of H2O changes the proportions of both the PG and the VG, I will give you an example: an Italian company of tobacco extracts recommends that you also use water to better prepare your products (for various reasons that I am not here to list). They also recommend a specific percentage of water, but the user, through my calculator, can establish the proportion of water that suits him best. For example, in the practical act, I prepare my tobacco liquids with these proportions: 63/27/10 (total = 100%), which respectively represent the percentage of PG, VG and H2O. But if the user wants to change the presence of water, increasing or decreasing it, here is that he can set my calculator with the proportions he wants (for example: 60/35/5, where the total still remains 100).
    Note that in counting the proportions, the flavour is also not counted. Let me explain: since each company sells its diluted flavours in different ways, here is only the amount of total liquid MINUS the amount of aroma must be divided into proportions. I give an example: in 100 mL of liquid 70/30, with 10% aroma, we will not have 70 mL of PG, 30 mL of VG and 10 mL of flavour (also because the total would be 110 mL, and not 100 mL), but only the total amount of liquid minus the flavour will be divided, i.e. 100 - 10 = 90 mL, and only of these 90 mL 70% will be constituted by the PG (63 mL) while 30% by the VG (27 mL) , the remaining 10 mL correspond to the flavour (63 mL + 27 mL + 10 mL = 100 mL of 10% flavored liquid ready for vaping).
    I hope I made myself understood well enough despite all these words of mine, otherwise I apologize.

    P.S.: Obviously, the use of water is not mandatory: in this case just enter "0" alongside.
     
  14. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    @Piccolo Chimico - I understand your calculator submits a “No” answer if a user errors. But where is that error? You have allowed any value to be entered into any position which in turn allows user error. Your calculator assumes the user has done the math beforehand which defeats the purpose of having a calculator.

    One cannot have 70% VG, 31% PG and 5% H20. It is impossible. So why not lead with a VG value that automatically adjusts PG. And should H20 be added, the calculator will automatically adjust both VG and PG appropriately. This removes user error thus removes the challenge at finding where that error was made.

    70% VG automatically sets PG at 30%. Adding 5% H20 automatically reduces both VG and PG by 2.5% each. The user is not required to understand that 5% H20 will remove 2.5% from both VG and PG. The calculator does it for them.

    Your nicotine base is the same. It allows any value to be entered for VG, PG or both which if done incorrectly will skew the above results. Again, leading with 1 ingredient be it VG or PG should automatically adjust the corresponding ingredient which in turn should automatically adjust the base composition of the juice.

    As for flavouring – each individual flavour accounts for a percentage of the overall mix. It should remove that equal value from the base according to the composition of the flavour. Meaning, adding 5% of a PG based flavour should remove 5% of PG from your initial 70VG 30PG base (should that be your values).

    Take my calculator. I enter in a volume 100ml. I enter in a VG goal = 70%. PG is automatically adjusted to 30%. This cannot be changed for that is the calculation. 70% VG + 30% PG = 100%.

    Adding 3mg/ml of nicotine, it is automatically calculated in order to achieve that goal 4.62% is needed. And because my nicotine is 100% VG, it will remove 4.62% VG from my initial base. So we are now with 4.62% nic + 65.38% VG + 30% PG = 100%

    Each flavour represents a certain percentage of PG (because they are all PG based), so the calculator will automatically remove that corresponding amount from the PG base. With my example, total flavour percentage yielded 14.8%. So we are now with 4.62% nic + 65.38% VG + 15.20% PG + 14.8% Total flavour = 100%. From these values the calculator will give an answer in both ml and grams for each individual ingredient.

    I do not have to figure out any of the percentages. All I need to enter is my VG goal and how much nicotine and flavour I wish to add. The calculator does the rest. AND, should I error and add a higher flavour percentage than the PG base, it will identify this by changing the PG values to bold red.
     
  15. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    Forgive me, but I don't follow you. Help me to understand you, please.



    In what sense "Where is that error?"?
    The error appears when the sum of the proportions entered by the user does not make 100%: if the user sets, for example, 50/49, or 50/51, and so on, the error appears.

    And in what sense "You have allowed any value to be entered into any position [...]"?
    The data that must necessarily be entered by the user (since they constitute the liquid itself) are as follows:
    1. How much does he want to dilute the flavour (for example: 10%, or 15%, etc.)
    2. What kind of base he wants (for example: 50/50, or 70/30, or 60/30/10, etc.)
    3. How much nicotine does he want (for example: 3, or 6, or 9, etc.)
    Nothing else.
    He inserts these 3 things and the calculator gives the results in mL, what other calculations should the table does?
    This data MUST be decided by the user, otherwise what are we talking about? I can't decide them for him, otherwise everyone would make their own calculator only for himself with their own fixed data and Amen.

    Reading "You have allowed any value to be entered into any position [...]" makes me think that you are entering data in the wrong boxes: are you sure to enter your data in the right boxes?
    For clarity, I modified the table graphics: now the only boxes in which the user must enter their data are clearly visible.



    You are suggesting me to set the table so that it automatically shows for example "30%" of VG in case the user enters "70%" of PG. Really? Don't you think you're exaggerating? Come on... I think the user can get there alone, right? I believe that if there is a person in the world who does not know how to do 100 minus 30, it would be better for this person to give up the idea of making liquids on their own and go to buy them already made (as well as go back to school).



    You are establishing this, but it is not written anywhere that adding 5% of water means removing 2.5% of PG and 2.5% of VG: the user must be free to establish, for example, to remove 5% of PG and 0% of VG, etc.



    The content of PG, VG or water present in the flavour is practically never considered as too small and its presence does not significantly change the proportions of the liquid base. It would also add a lot of extra calculations that would make the table too full of stuff and it would only lead to confusion.



    You're wrong. I don't know in Canada, but here in Italy for example, the flavours (and the nicotine) are sold in PG, are sold in VG, are sold 50/50 and even are sold in water some. But as previously I said, the content of these elements in the flavours is in too small quantity for it to be worth taking into consideration.



    To conclude, I tried to leave the (almost) total freedom to the user to enter their data based on the products he has available. I have not set any fixed value, since the products on the market, both the aromas, both the nicotine and the ready-made bases, are sold in various types.
     
  16. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    As stated, your calculator allows any value to be inputted into any position, which if done incorrectly, does not define where the error is, just that there is an error.

    Every DIY e-juice calculator does not allow the percentage to exceed 100%. Corresponding ingredients are automatically calculated. This is not just for a 70/30 base, but for the sum of all ingredients used within the mix. Look at the ELR calculator, you can not enter 70%VG and 35%PG – it does not allow it, therefore removes this as being a user error. You do not see a benefit with this? A simple modification of your calculator can remove this as being a user error.

    No, I was not entering data in the wrong boxes. I enter 30% PG and 75% VG because your calculator allows it. No other calculator that I am aware of allows this. Entering in one value automatically adjusts its corresponding ingredient.

    So the dozens, perhaps hundreds of other E-Juice calculators are exaggerating? 200000 users over at ELR are using an exaggerated calculator? This is how my calculator works, is that also exaggerated? Are you suggesting that I should go back to school? Personally, I would love to but let me just make a point. My schooling allowed me to develop a calculator that automatically makes adjustments. ;)

    I am open to flavour concentrates being VG based, but from what I have seen within the conversations in these forums, and from what vendors world wide offer, they are rare. Flavour Art is an Italian based manufacture of hundreds of flavourings, perhaps they offer a VG base concentrate, but I have never seen one. Perhaps offer some examples?

    Nicotine in North America can be acquired in VG, PG or a combination of both.

    That said, the content of the flavour is ALWAYS taken into account. That is one of the purposes of using a calculator, so you can meet an objective. If you are using 10% of PG based flavourings, that 10% is reflected in your overall mix, it is not ignored.

    Your calculator, if adding flavour, it adjusts both VG and PG respectively based on the percentage of the flavour. That is incorrect. If making a 100ml mix with a 70VG/30PG objective, and adding 10% flavour that is PG based, the net result is not 63ml of VG, 27ml of PG and 10ml of flavour. That may add up to 100ml, but yields a 63% VG and 37% PG mix which is not what I am looking for. The result should have been 70ml of VG, 20ml of PG and 10ml of flavour. 70VG/30PG is my objective to which the calculator must comply.

    My comment “because they are all PG based” was meant to reflect MY surplus of flavours. Not what is on the market. If you are working with a flavour that is composed of PG, VG or BOTH, that percentage MUST be removed from its corresponding ingredient. Every single DIY calculator available operates in this fashion.
     
  17. Piccolo Chimico

    Piccolo Chimico Full Member

    Jan 11, 2020
    Italy
    The other calculators don't allow you to enter values that exceed 100%, ok, good. Mine shows a warning to communicate that there is an error in the proportions: is it so different? In the end the result does not change.
    It would have been very simple to set up my calculator so that it automatically entered the PG amount if the user entered the VG, or vice versa, but things change when the presence of H2O is also taken into consideration. In that case the user should manually enter at least 2 values out of 3, to allow the table to show the third value. But at that point, what does it change the user to put the last one manually? I don't know, it seems so simple...

    I am not saying that the ELR calculator, or any other one that enters the values automatically, is exaggerated, or that the people who use it are. But I'm not a programmer, nor a professional who develops calculators for an economic return. I am an ordinary person who made a simple spreadsheet, you can not expect mine to be at the same level :)

    And no, I would never allow myself to suggest you go back to school, on the contrary, your calculator is very well studied and precise (as I also told you previously). My comment was not addressed to you at all, but to the phantom person in my example who can't do 100-30. Don't put things in my mouth that I haven't said! :blink:

    If you use 10 mL of 100% PG based flavour, the amount of PG is not 10 mL, but much less, so I have not entered it in the calculator in order not to weigh it down too much with too specific things that, in my opinion, would not change the average user's vaping experience too much.
    Not to mention that the vast majority of the flavours that I have been in, do not report the proportion of PG, VG or H2O present inside. Therefore, the user, in order to be able to insert the aforementioned amount of PG, VG or H2O in the aroma, should read the entire product label and in turn make calculations in case the proportion is not reported, making all extremely boring and complex.

    My calculator does not want to replace those already present online made by professionals, I do not consider myself up to this task nor do I have the desire to do it. It does not have all the functions that you have listed and that they have, it is just a starting point to start making your first liquids, and some other functions (which it seems to me that other calculators do not have, but maybe I'm wrong).
     
  18. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Yes it is different. Yours allows user error, others do not. Yours assumes a user will acknowledge the warning and source the error to make the necessary corrections. It assumes experience. Many are just getting into DIY, especially given the flavour threats in the US. If you allow user error, an inexperienced individual may not recognize that error. Just because you understand DIY mixing, do not assume others do as well. That is the key to developing a simple and functional calculator. Agree or no?

    If it would have been very simple to incorporate an automatic calculation base on VG/PG percentage, then it would be just as simple to do the same for adding H2O, and do so that the user can choose, VG, PG or both. Here’s a hint…you are already doing it for Nicotine.

    If you are not a programmer or developer then why developing a calculator? Don’t sell yourself short mate, be BETTER than ELR :thumb:

    And for the record – you brought up schooling, I just played on that comment.

    10ml of PG base flavouring will yield very close to 10ml of PG. It may not be 100% correct, but certainly closer to what your calculator is calculating. If everyone felt the same as you, every other calculator on the market would follow suit. None do, which displays how much importance people put toward these values.

    Honestly, then why are you posting the calculator? You have an objective – follow that through to the best of your ability. Do not sell short - acknowledge user opinion and use that to your advantage to build a better product. You opened this thread, you posted your calculator. I see this as you being open to opinion, be it good or bad. You even requested for others to report errors. If you do not wish to improve, then why request?

    Now…I either do not understand your correction calculator or found additional faults. Would you like to discuss, perhaps find out what maybe wrong and improve, or no?
     

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