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Local vape shop engages in underage sales to minors under 18 - what to do?

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by UncleJunkle, Nov 11, 2014.

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  1. UncleJunkle

    UncleJunkle Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 29, 2010
    USA
    How do I go about reporting a local B&M store for selling to minors? Who do I contact? I am strictly against this for more than 1 reason. But the main 2 are...

    1. I personally do not think minors should be allowed to purchase vaping supplies and such as no one really has any hard evidence as to how safe or dangerous it really is.

    2. Selling to minors gives the vaping community/industry a bad name and that alone will be the demise of vaping if we are not responsible citizens and vendors. If we as a country and a world want vaping to be accepted, we have to be reasonable and responsible about it.

    What gets me is this store has more than one sign both on the door and in the storeroom that they do not sell to minors and the employee told the kids as soon as they entered that they can enter, but he cannot sell anything to them. Then, he proceeds to sell them liquid, clearomizers, batts, and coils. What's up with that? :?:

    I am in PA in case that matter as I know nothing of any laws that may or may not govern the sales of vaping supplies, minors or adults.
     
  2. ruet

    ruet Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 20, 2011
    GR, MI
    If there's no law against it you should report it to the same office you would a convenience store that sells energy drinks to minors. In other words, if it isn't against the law, you should mind your own business.
     
  3. UncleJunkle

    UncleJunkle Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 29, 2010
    USA
    First of all, I DID NOT say it was or was not illegal. that is something I was looking to find out in this forum. Secondly, if it is not illegal in my state or locality, then why does the store have signs stating they will not sell to minors and why did the employee behind the counter tell the children that they were free to come in but that he could not sell them something?

    {MODERATED}
     
  4. ImThatGuy

    ImThatGuy Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 1, 2012
    California
    Question, how do you know they sold it to minors? Did you card those minors? Did those 'minors' say they were not of legal age to purchase said items?
     
  5. Nermal

    Nermal Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 8, 2013
    Farmington, NM USA
    Personally, cxm, I don't think ruet said anything the least bit out of line.
     
  6. Fuzzy Bruce

    Fuzzy Bruce Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 21, 2014
    Fort Liquordale, Fl.
    I agree, minors should not be allowed to purchase or even use vape supplies or tobacco products.. Of course, there is the lessor of evils. Some kids are going to smoke but better they vape if given the choice. Someone put the sign up, probably the owner. The sales person may have just wanted a sale. A word to the owner is probably the best route. Hopefully, the owner will deal with this issue.
     
  7. UncleJunkle
    This message by UncleJunkle has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Nov 13, 2014, Reason: Bad form.
    Nov 11, 2014
  8. UncleJunkle

    UncleJunkle Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 29, 2010
    USA
    R U kidding. lol. Another serious thread turned into a battle of mud slinging against rational adult vapers.

    Nevermind anyhow. I called the local police non-emergency number and the officer told me that in fact it was illegal in that locality to sell such devices and equip to minors and that they had several complaints over the last 6 months. But they can only fine them if they can be caught red-handed. Since there is no "Nicotine Control Board" like three is for liquor sales, it will be tough.

    But I did and will continue to do my part in helping to make the vape community seem rational and human. As far as I'm concerned this thread is closed. You all can sling it if ya want to. Hope those with rational minds who come across my dilemma will read this and call authorities if IF IF IF IF IF IF IF it is illegal in their localities.

    Merchants like these should not be jailed or fines, IMHO. However, they should be slapped with a huge stupid tax. That's all. They can continue to sell to minors if they wish. But every time they are caught, they pay a stupid tax.
     
  9. dchemist

    dchemist Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 3, 2014
    Benton, Arkansas
    Couple of things. Many states that have age requirements do so for nicotine. Did they but 0 nic juice or something else? Most states have not past laws but rather leave it up to the individual municipalities for regulation. If you are concerned, you should check with local law enforcement regarding laws and selling to minors. If there are no laws, you could contact the store owner about what you saw. Other than that, there's nothing you can do.

    I won't play the game of rather you should or not. That is up to you.
     
  10. Fuzzy Bruce

    Fuzzy Bruce Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 21, 2014
    Fort Liquordale, Fl.
    Don't lose you coll cmx!

    I think everyone understands your point of view. The sales person is a piece of shi um, I mean work and should be fired. If that person is also the owner, this storefront should be shut down... Since you have taken the step to learn the law and,,, the police will not act, the advice to contact the owner should be taken. The sales clerk has jeopardized the integrity of the store.
     
  11. fused2explode

    fused2explode Full Member

    Apr 18, 2012
    Right behind you
    It's not illegal to do here in my state, they only put the sign up so that people who are really against it don't freak out
     
  12. Nate760

    Nate760 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 11, 2014
    San Marcos, CA, USA
    No one has yet asked the most relevant question, so I will: what reason is there, except emotional overreaction and/or lack of perspective, to oppose minors vaping? No evidence exists that it's harmful to anyone, or that it leads to any form of tobacco use in tobacco-naive individuals. There is evidence, on the other hand, that young people who take up vaping are much less likely to smoke. In every population group that's been measured, uptake of vapor products is accompanied by a decline in smoking prevalence. The effect on never-smokers appears to be no different than the effect on former smokers. Both become less likely to smoke.

    One further observation: it makes no sense to be opposed to kids buying vaping gear, but not huge cups/cans of hyper-concentrated caffeine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Rickajho

    Rickajho ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 23, 2011
    Boston MA
    We don't even have an official ruling on said minors. Other than "said it" and then "sold it." For all we know - the OP included - they were actually, you know - carded at the time of the sale. But that point seems to be lost on certain people who skirt that possibility.

    Curious to know what was said when the police asked "How do you know they were minors?" Looks can be deceiving.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Moaufan

    Moaufan Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2013
    Richland, Ga. USA
    Something else to think about. How old were you when you started smoking? If you were not of legal age how did you get them? If you drink or drank how old were you when you started? If you were not of legal age how did you get it? I'm 50 and the smoking ban was put into place long after I was 18. Alcohol on the other hand was a problem but not a big one. If we couldn't find someone to sell it to us we'd wait until somebody was going in and pay them to get it. We'd get it one way or another. Still today they'll get what they want one way or another.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. ruet
    This message by ruet has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Nov 13, 2014, Reason: Bad form.
    Nov 12, 2014
  16. ImThatGuy

    ImThatGuy Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 1, 2012
    California
    ^^^This is full of win...
     
  17. WharfRat1976

    WharfRat1976 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 31, 2014
    Austin, Texas
    I would do a Barney Fife on them. Catch them in the act then start shouting "citizens arrest, citizens arrest," that'll fix em.
     
  18. stevegmu

    stevegmu Moved On ECF Veteran

    Should teens who drink liquor be allowed to drink wine? After all they are going to drink anyway, why not let them drink something less harmful?

    If there is a store selling teens e-cigs, I'd call the police. Law or not, I guarantee they would send out a car, and a visit by the police may scare them enough to card...

    Oh, selling tobacco products to minors in Pennsylvania is illegal...
     
  19. Nate760

    Nate760 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 11, 2014
    San Marcos, CA, USA
    They're going to send out a car in response to a report of legal activity? Is it a really slow crime day or something?

    Pennsylvania has no law that classifies e-cigs as tobacco products, and there's no statewide prohibition against minors buying vapor products (SB 1055, which includes both of those provisions, was introduced last year but has yet to make it out of committee).

    The only way any crime was committed here is 1) if there's a city ordinance that prohibits sales to minors; 2) if the customers in question actually were minors; and 3) if the liquid they were sold had nicotine in it. Based on the OP's statements, we have no particular reason to believe any of those things is the case.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. stevegmu

    stevegmu Moved On ECF Veteran

    Yes, they will. Police are dispatched to all sorts of calls... I live in the real world, not a world of semantics. Reasonable people understand e-liquid is a tobacco product. I am sure a shop owner doesn't want the headache and expense of going to court to challenge definitions of tobacco products. Even if they win they lose...
     
  21. ruet

    ruet Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 20, 2011
    GR, MI
    Comparing Alcohol to e-liquid is like comparing apples to pumpkins. Yeah, let's waste everyone time and public tax dollars by calling the Police about subjects we know absolutely nothing about! "That looks different". "CALL THE COPS!" Makes perfect sense! Card for what? The only place selling e-cigs to minors in Pennsylvania is prohibited is Philly. If the owner of the store has a problem with his/her employees enforcing store rules, that's their problem. Not some, ill-informed, good-Samaritan wannabe. Hell for all we know it the owner making the sale. ...to his/her own family. Good Deity! I can't get over the inanity of these comments.
     
  22. ruet

    ruet Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 20, 2011
    GR, MI
    Madness!
    [​IMG]
     
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