Looking for a new CENTRALLY located location for big group meeting.

[SheerLuckHolmes]

An interesting hiccup occured at this past Sunday's Meeting. It appears the Owner of SunUp Brewery has cameras set up in the private room we use and was watching us. He called the brewery to have the staff stop us from 'smoking'...

I see this as a break down in communication between the staff and the owner. We have been meeting and vaping at SunUp Brewery for over a year without any problems. So the owner must have never used his new camera toy before, at least on Sundays and he was unaware of the nature of our group. The people we schedule the events with at SunUp are cool an understand the nature of our group, so it is just the owner that is clueless.

But the suggestion was brought up later in the day to ask for new centrally located establishments we might move to. If you know of an establishment or can research a new location, please do not guess. Check it out and if possible speak directly to the owner and find out if they would appreciate a vaping Group meeting at their establishment once a month.

Also consider easy access to anyone from any point in the metropolitan area. Post here in ECF & in FaceBook with your suggestions as not everyone has access to both sites.

 

[Penner]

wow, bummer

 

[davelog]

Yeah, that was pretty uncool. I'm hoping it's just a misunderstanding, but I'll be calling SunUp today to talk to the manager and find out what the official policy is on vaping. If they can't accommodate us any more, we're moving the meets to a new venue.

To that end, do we require someplace with a separate room, or will anyplace that we can put tables together suffice? Is serving alcohol a requirement? Does easy freeway access compensate for a non-central location?

I'll post here after the call is made and the final determination of our fate at SunUp is clear. Knock on wood, I like it there and I hope we can stay.

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

The camera is understandable especially for an out of state owner or the GM's... not a big deal to me and I really don't see why it freaks out anyone. How else do they keep an eye on what goes on in there by employees (especially young bar employees and big vats of beer ). Also, that they don't know anything about e-cigs also isn't uncommon... especially if they aren't smokers and if they do know about them, it's usually by bad publicity in other states.

Hopefully once they understand that Arizona laws have no impact and there are no restrictions on public use made by the AZ government, AND that we have been there a year with no incident or complaint by any of their other customers all will be well. This is a great location, and I'd be sorry to lose it.

Let me know if you want me to help with this.

Just consider carefully wording what you are saying about e-cigs and our group when speaking to these folks (who have every right to ask us to leave there, btw) and do your homework on the AZ government's tobacco laws and how they relate to businesses here and e-cigs. The room is perfect for us and we'll be hard pressed to find another one like it with a good location like we have now.

(my )


*Hellen*

 

[davelog]

Totally agree and I will be very diplomatic about it, however it works out - but if we have to stand outside to vape, we should move the meets.

I just got off the phone with Tara, the manager, and she is going to call me back after discussing the issue with the owner. We want to stay, and they want us to stay - it's just a matter of getting the owner to understand what we do. I'll post here as soon as we have an outcome either way.

 

[davelog]

Ok, I just heard back from Tara, who just finished talking to Norm, the owner.

The official policy is that we can vape in the Brewer's Den, but not by the bar. Vaping at the tables is fine, but there is a sensor by the bar that can be set off by smoke or heat that will turn off the air conditioning, and someone has to go on the roof to turn it back on when that happens.

So, we can stay at SunUp if we don't vape by the bar. If this is acceptable to everyone, we'll stay put. If this is a dealbreaker, we'll find someplace new to go.

Sound off, vapers! We need your input on what to do next!

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

Smoke or heat.... hmmmmmmmmmmm How much heat? More than a dual coil atty. More than a severe sunburn? More than 98.6? More than the average ice machine kicks out that is right underneath the fricken bar???????? Smoke? What Smoke?????

I don't know why this bothers me so much. Just seems like they should be jumping through hoops to keep us filling up their business, rather than us jumping through hoops to get them to allow us to stay.

I agree with Dave and Vickie, it is a good location. A lot to offer. Pretty much a central location. Beer, yea good beer. Service has always been outstanding. Buffalo Burgers over the top outstanding. I look forward to going there just for the Buffalo Burgers and beer.... and the outstanding sharing we get to do, of course.

I have no problem with the cameras. It was just the fact that the owner was clueless and jumped to conclusions. And didn't even know what had been going on in his own place of business for over a year. "Oh, OK, you can stay. but you have to do this, not that and by the way it doesn't matter that your vaping has caused no problems with the .......'n sensor in over a year, now that I know about your vaping it might now set off the sensor." Just clueless, BS! Get a brain. Use a little reasoning. If there hasn't been a problem in over a year what are the chances of the sensor going off now!

I am glad that this seems to have worked out. Would just have appreciated a little more appreciation in return. Some sense that our patronage is desired not put up with.

 

[davelog]

I agree, I don't think vapor will set off a heat detector, but it might set off a smoke detector if it's looking for particulates like the ones in airplane bathrooms. It wasn't worth arguing over though. This is a way we can stay, if we're willing to sacrifice the bar area. Maybe we can use it for the raffle display to dissuade people from sitting there.

I'd like to hear from some of the other VIPs that regularly attend the meets so we can have a true consensus. Me personally, I like the place and am willing to bend to their wishes... but this is a group activity, and the group should have the say-so.

 

[Trench]

I know I'm not exactly a regular, but I've been through this stuff with my car club before. It tends to leave a bad taste with me.

The good food and beer is hard to leave behind though.

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

What the people at Sun Up need to distinguish is WHAT TYPE of smoke detector they have.

If it is an optical detector, then vapor can shut it off if someone is sitting right underneath it, but not likely... vapor dissipates very quickly (If it is blocking it, I blame Carl, who billows VG vapor at the end of the bar... LOL!). Excess steam or high humidity can cause failure of these (maybe we're heating up the place when we have a large group? LOL). About that, I don't know.

If it is an Ionization Detector there's no way in hell that we're setting it off, no matter how many people are vaping VG at the bar or blowing it directly into the detector. When smoke enters the ionization chamber, the smoke particles attach to the ions and neutralize them, so they do not reach the plate. The drop in current between the plates triggers the alarm. Vapor doesn't have the chemical make-up to do this.


Maybe something to ask about Dave?

As far as no one being allowed to sit and vape at the bar? Really, I don't see it as a problem (again, my 2 cents). I say let's stay to see if we can keep it going okay there. I'll re-post this to the facebook group as well...
V.

 

[davelog]

Thanks, Vicky! What's the general opinion on the facebook side?

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

From the disscussion so far, both in ECF and FB, it appears the there are more for than against moving. As with anything in life, there are positives and negatives about SunUp. I would make a motion that we continue to hold monthly area wide meetings at Sun Up Brewing. Anyone want to second?

At the same time, if we keep our eyes open and happen to stumble across a superior, welcoming, CENTRALLY located location do not hesitate to bring it to everyone's attention.

 

[davelog]

I'll second that. Sunny tells me that someone on facebook suggested that we should mix up the venue every now and again for exposure purposes, to let more of Phoenix see us. That makes a lot of sense to me. Should we find other appropriate places to meet, we should work them into the schedule even if we keep SunUp as 'home base'.

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

@ Dave, I wish you'd get a FB account just for our group! LOL Come on Sunny... get the man connected! *snicker* Also as far as public exposure... well, that is what will get us kicked out of a venue. E-cigs are not universally known, and people who don't smoke are afraid of them. Will they want us in the same room that they're in? No... if we're in a private room (as now) we're safe from that. We get plenty of exposure by vaping individually where ever we are, and also from this forum and others (though people could be better about spreading the news about our group on the internet, and at other vaping forums!!).

At the place we were at before (more open air than this room we're currently in), and in my 3 years with the group at the socials, I have seen maybe 8-10 or so people come up and and get info. and maybe 2 actually bought a kit while they were there and started start vaping (and none of them ever came back to our group).

With all the info. I've given out over the years in public when asked about vaping (100's of people), nobody has ever contacted me (I give my phone and email and ECF info/my contact) about vaping or shown up at the group. Where I get the biggest bang for my time (oooohhh) is on a forum helping noobies that are serious about vaping and looking for help (just heard back from one that I helped over a year ago, with a nice thank you...).

@ Barry, I don't know where you got that more people want to move somewhere else than stay where we currently are... that's not what I read. LOL It seems we have no problems right now...

Anyway... here is what I posted there on Facebook earlier:
Well, about the smoke detector, I think they're full of .... and who ever is "fixing" it when it gets set off doesn't know what he's doing and is feeding them a line about the vapor causing it because he doesn't know what exactly causes it. It's not the vapor. It's a room condition (and probably caused by too many people in that little room and causing humidity problems). We'll probably never be able to prove it, but if they want us to sit at the (normal) tables and not at that corner at the bar (where the air return is located) I see no problem with that.

Having a line on a back up place might be a good idea, so those of you that want to move... go look, get all the info, and make sure that we won't get shut out of a new place on the whim of some customer or employee of any new place who decides later to be a Smoke Nazi who could complain about us vaping... and we'd lose a 2nd place (which btw, we're shielded from in this room/venue)!

AND I also posted:
I don't see any reason to get our panties in a bunch about moving at this juncture. This isn't that big of a deal! Having an idea or two for a back up is just a good idea. Richard Gonzales will check out a place that is near by (he just sent me in chat) just in case. Just remember, if it's a Sports Bar, football and other sports seasons will limit the room we have there, so don't focus on those!


====================================================
Just let me know where you all land! LOL

Hellen

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

I didn't say that. I said there are more for than against. Therefore, the motion to continue at SunUp.

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

'For' implying for staying. Guess I didn't make that clear. But the motion to continue should have cleared that up.

So when is the date for August, so those of us on the east side can plan a date around the whole group date.

 

[davelog]

We are GO for Sunday, August 26th!

 

[davelog]

@ Dave, I wish you'd get a FB account just for our group! LOL Come on Sunny... get the man connected! *snicker* Also as far as public exposure... well, that is what will get us kicked out of a venue. E-cigs are not universally known, and people who don't smoke are afraid of them. Will they want us in the same room that they're in? No... if we're in a private room (as now) we're safe from that. We get plenty of exposure by vaping individually where ever we are, and also from this forum and others (though people could be better about spreading the news about our group on the internet, and at other vaping forums!!).

Sorry, I turned my back on facebook years ago, for reasons that have only gotten worse in the interim. Any chance you can make the facebook group visible to the public?

I guess I hadn't thought about the negative aspects of being seen in different venues. I'm kinda torn, I'm damn proud to have quit the cigs with the help of vaping, and my natural inclination is to tell the world about it - but I certainly understand your concerns and am disappointed in the general public often enough to suspect that you're absolutely correct.

Unless anyone has anything else to add, we're staying the course!

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

I don't think we can open Facebook to the public, then we're open to spammers (we get the occasional odd Chinese company asking to join with a made up American name/account, spamming us, then I delete them). It also allows us to vent about vendors without them coming in and stirring a pot.

Time at the meetings is a social group, not education of the world, though we're always happy to talk to anyone who wanders in and members are encouraged to bring in friends and family. It's always been that way. We've also had people at our first venue fan the air, complain and move away from us (as I have in general life while vaping outside).

The best way to educate is for individuals to print up some little biz cards with info. about vaping, our social group, ECF and Facebook and carry some extra biz cards of your favorite local vendors (to help keep them in business... having them here is vital to all of us). Vape in public where ever you are, and hand out cards when someone asks about vaping, and be considerate if/when someone who is uneducated about vaping gets their panties in a knot about your vaping in public or their personal space (explaining is good, if they'll listen, but don't blow vapor in their face and tell them to f-off, just makes us all look bad, and our luck, it'll be some Smoke Nazi Blogger on the internet). LOL

We just can't go crazy promoting our cause during our meetings at someone's business when we need a place to get together to socialize, and a complaint to the owner could very well give us all the boot... What we CAN do is watch the patio for smokers, and wander outside and invite them in to check out vaping... Just as we've always done.

(the above is more of my that has turned into a nickle)

 

[davelog]

Makes perfect sense.

Now then, what do we do about the anniversary party? Since I haven't heard any other suggestions, I'm thinking the Uptown Alley plan is the best thing we have on the table, since it's established a vape-friendly and offers the most variety in a single location for stuff to do as individuals and as a group. My only concern is the location, since we generally aim for central Phx to make it the most accessible to the members. What do you think?