Lorann or Bickford: What's better?

[Nadia Maximus]

I'm trying to decide and want to choose the best one. Please Help?

 

[Bond_ James Bond]

Both great.
Lorann makeks very concentrated oils. lorann also has big collection of great flavors.
Make sure you order pg based oils, no artificial coloring .
pralines and cream , coconut , honey ,orange ,bubblegum ,butterscotch. to name a few .
I use also Bickford , strawberry is great . bickford is not as concentrated as lorann, .

 

[GabbyD]

I've only used Lorann so far. I've read here that they are stronger than Bickford.
If you look at the Lorann ones, make sure you don't get the oils - well, they call them "Lorann Oils" but only some are oil. Get the water soluble ones. Apparently oil would screw up an atomizer.

I know some here are doing more complicated mixes and making their own liquid. All I'm doing with the Lorann is taking a tiny insulin syringe and drawing up a few drops and putting it right into my cartridge along with e-liquid. Mmmm! That flavor lasts a long time. I only top off with the e-liquid after that, for at least the rest of the day, and I'm still tasting the Lorann flavor. I'm about to order some more. So far I'm just trying out the English Toffee. There are some ebay sellers with great deals. One even has a mix & match of 12 or 24 flavors for a good price compared to my local craft store.

Happy tasting!

 

[Nadia Maximus]

Awesome, thanks friends! I ordered lorann:
Caramel
Cheesecake
Cinnamon Roll
English Toffe
Pralines And Cream
Bavarian Creme Flavor (Vanilla)
Pomegranate

I plan on mixing it with high food grade kosher vegetable glycerin. I'll let you know what I think.

 

[Kate]

I'm sure you'll like making your own Nadia, there are some very yummy flavours around. Go easy with the LorAnn ones at first, they can be strong but they are all different.

You may have already found this thread but just in case http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/2498-lorann-candy-flavours.html

 

[Satire]

I don't know if you have already bought the VG, but I would suggest PG instead, it is cheap and very available online and some stores, and has been tested in long-term high-vapor-concentration exposure 6hr/day 5day/wk for 2 yr with no mutation body chemistry changes or the like. The MSDS from sigma-aldrich (a chemical supply company, they are required by law to have an information sheet with exposure/health info) had this to say on the subject of chronic exposure to VG:
"CHRONIC EXPOSURE - MUTAGEN
Species: Human
Dose: 200 MMOL/L
Cell Type: lymphocyte
Mutation test: DNA inhibition
[The EPA is waiting on further tests to confirm this according to their website, but why take risks on something that has shown signs of DNA inhibition in human cells in a clinical trial? alteration of any process or structure in the DNA replication cycle is step one in the birth of a tumor.]
Species: Rat
Route: Oral
Dose: 1 GM/KG
Mutation test: Cytogenetic analysis
CHRONIC EXPOSURE - REPRODUCTIVE HAZARD
Species: Rat
Dose: 100 MG/KG
Route of Application: Oral
Exposure Time: (1D MALE)
Result: Effects on Fertility: Post-implantation mortality (e.g.,
dead and/or resorbed implants per total number of implants).
Species: Rat
Dose: 280 MG/KG
Route of Application: Intratesticular
Exposure Time: (2D MALE)
Result: Paternal Effects: Spermatogenesis (including genetic
material, sperm morphology,motility, and count). Paternal
Effects: Testes, epididymis, sperm duct.
Species: Rat
Dose: 1600 MG/KG
Route of Application: Intratesticular
Exposure Time: (1D MALE)
Result: Effects on Fertility: Male fertility index (e.g., #
males impregnating females per # males exposed to fertile
nonpregnant females).
Species: Rat
Dose: 862 MG/KG
Route of Application: Intratesticular
Exposure Time: (1D MALE)
Result: Paternal Effects: Spermatogenesis (including genetic
material, sperm morphology,motility, and count).
Species: Monkey
Dose: 119 MG/KG
Route of Application: Intratesticular
[Wow they injected a monkey's package with glycerin, that is wrong in so many ways]
Exposure Time: (1D MALE)
Result: Paternal Effects: Spermatogenesis (including genetic
material, sperm morphology,motility, and count). Paternal
Effects: Testes, epididymis, sperm duct"

And if none of that concerns you, I hear PG contributes less to the overall flavor and allows the flavorings to stand out, and have read some claims that VG has a distinct taste that cannot be masked and will be present in the final flavor (good if you like the taste of VG, bad if you want to taste the flavorings).

 

[Misty]

I don't know if you have already bought the VG, but I would suggest PG instead, it is cheap and very available online and some stores, and has been tested in long-term high-vapor-concentration exposure 6hr/day 5day/wk for 2 yr with no mutation body chemistry changes or the like. The MSDS from sigma-aldrich (a chemical supply company, they are required by law to have an information sheet with exposure/health info) had this to say on the subject of chronic exposure to VG:

and I just bought VG cause having difficulty finding PG ( in Canada)..do you have any links to suggest where I can get PG that would ship to Canada?
Thanks!
Mist

 

[ZambucaLu]

So Satire, when you said "but I thought I would give advance warning about the Glycerin mutation capability and if anyone wants the reference for that just msg me, or just wait till I finish the list and I'll put references for it all."

you were talking about VG only? Well I for one am glad to hear that! I just recommended PG to my brother for cutting then became concerned when you mentioned the above. Phew!

Lu

 

[Misty]

I don't know if you have already bought the VG, but I would suggest PG instead, it is cheap and very available online and some stores, and has been tested in long-term high-vapor-concentration exposure 6hr/day 5day/wk for 2 yr with no mutation body chemistry changes or the like. The MSDS had this to say on the subject of chronic exposure to VG:
"CHRONIC EXPOSURE - MUTAGEN

Satire, was checking out where to get some PG after reading your post and came across MSDS report for PG which sounds as bad as yours about VG8-o

The MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Propylene Glycol says: “May be harmful by ingestion or skin absorption. May cause eye irritation, skin irritation. Chronic exposure can cause gastro-intestinal disturbances, nausea, headache and vomiting, central nervous system depression. (“Toxicological profile for ethylene glycol and propylene glycol (update).” Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), 1996. Atlanta, Ga; U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service.)
Propylene glycol is also used as a solvent in acrylics, stains, inks and dyes, and in cellophane and brake fluid. It is used as a preservative in flavored coffees. PG can have an anesthetic effect. Other side effects on animals exposed to PG include heart arrhythmia, stunted growth, decreased blood pressure, and even death. ​

 

[Nadia Maximus]

All this talk is making me think about quitting vaping all together

 

[ZambucaLu]

Well Nadia....we KNOW the dangers of tobacco smoking. This new stuff is a gamble....one I'm willing to take....but everyone has to make that decision for themselves.

Lu

 

[Lithium1330]

All this talk is making me think about quitting vaping all together

Me too but not only by VG or PG it's just matter of time until somebody get killed by this chinese highly poisonous unregulated nicotine, it is scary, we need more safety :s

I was thinking on use nicotine patches and vape VG with LorAnn flavor cutted down with distilled water as needed, no more potentially deadly nicotine for me.

 

[Nadia Maximus]

Me too but not only by VG or PG it's just matter of time until somebody get killed by this chinese highly poisonous unregulated nicotine, it is scary, we need more safety :s

Actually, I was talking about the effects of VG only is scary. I dont even want to get in to nicotine and the chinese devices. Has anyone tested these things for lead?

 

[Bellinghamster]

Has anyone tested these things for lead?

Honestly, beyond the Ruyan report and TW ingredients list [both of which are not valid for batch impurities] I would say little, if any testing is done. Anyone with data to refute this, please respond.

It boils down to a known killer [tobacco + paper + additives = analog cig] VS e-smoke juice and whatever chemicals we get from inadvertently smoking a cart too dry.

It's the choice between taking a poison that will most likely kill you in decades or taking "door #2" which is an unknown. Make no mistake - this is risky business and you are gambling with your health.

Common sense [and the ingredient lists we have been able to obtain] would NOT infer that e-smoking is inherently as or more dangerous than analogs. In all likelihood, if quality control could be achieved, it is far less hazardous. The issues to me do not stem from VG vs PG or any of that nonsense. That almost seems like comparing the various sizes of bullet to shoot yourself with. Any substance you chronically ingest [see: Bacon] can cause health issues - it's just a matter of how much you use, and how often.

Not to mention the fact that these two substances are just delivery vehicles for POISON. [Extremely enjoyable poison - but poison nonetheless]

No one on this forum claims that e-smoking is healthy - only that is has the potential to be less harmful to ourselves and others than smoking tobacco.

The real issue, as identified by many forum members before me is: without proper batch QA, who the h3ll knows what is in any particular batch of liquid?

Milk + melamine
Toys + Lead
E-juice + ???

It's a gamble to be sure, but one I'm willing to take as no NRT has worked for me so I'm down to "alternate nicotine delivery systems".

It's pretty fun though, right? Sorry for the over-response to your question...

 

[dodomark]

Is this the stuff you guys are playing around with?

LorAnn's Blueberry Flavoring - eBay (item 220277592594 end time Jan-02-09 12:31:53 PST)

Mark

 

[yvilla]

Mark, you'd be better off going to places like these, where you can click on the individual flavors to get more specific information about the exact ingredients. That's because you want to stay away from the ones that have colorants, and those that are actually oils. It's been recommended that you stick with those that have bases of PG, water and/or alcohol along with the flavor part.

LorAnn Candy Flavoring Oils or,

faerie's finest - extracts and liquid flavors

 

[ZambucaLu]

Yvilla,

I didn't know about the faerie's brand...just checked it out. Have you tried them? Are they concentrated enough for stronger flavor like the Lorann's?

Thanks.

Lu

 

[ZambucaLu]

Found these sites for cheaper Lorann's but you would have to know what flavors you wanted because they don't list individual ingredients (that I could see anyway). Also, if you scroll down the page on the second link, they also have PG...might be kind of expensive (comparatively) but convenient if ordering anyway:

LorAnn Oils Gourmet Flavoring .125oz.

candy ingredients, chocolate candy colorings, candy flavorings, regular and sugar free hard candy mixes, cinnamon and peppermint candy crunch, caramel, fondant mix,pecan pie in a jar, desiccated coconut, bakery flavors, fondant and royal icing mix ,

Lu

 

[spyderuk]

Picked up Bubblegum, Banana Cream and Butterscotch.

What with ordering 50ml bottles for mixing and small 5ml bottles for dripping and looking at syringes for measuring it will look like i'm setting up some sort of laboratory. 8-o

 

[ZambucaLu]

Just a heads up spyder, the Lorann's banana and butterscotch have added colorings. The people here who use the Lorann's generally advise against colorings and oils. Maybe you already know that but thought I'd make mention just in case.

I see the Faerie selection does not have colorings in those flavors though.

Lu