Madvapes Weekly Contest - October 5 through October 9

[Crowedude654]

It's that time again! This week, madvapes is giving away:

1 x Innokin Disrupter Mod
1 x Innocell Battery
1 x iSub tank
5 x iSub Replacement Coils
100mL of Any e-liquid

To be eligible to win this week, you have to do some light reading. The FDA is at it again. For a quick breakdown, check out Bill Godshall's post here on ECF:

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...llenges-judge-leons-2010-court-ruling.703039/

To get an idea on what all of this means, check out this great article from Dr. Michael Siegel:

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/09/fdas-proposed-rule-on-allowable-e.html

This one seems to be flying under the radar, and CASAA hasn't released a CTA on this yet. This does affect businesses more than it affects consumers, but ultimately this "clarification" is going to do exactly the opposite of what it is said to do, and confuse the general public even more.

So just check out the two links above, get informed, and post back here. There will be one winner chosen at random on Friday.

If you're interested in the full text, click here:

https://www.federalregister.gov/art...rom-tobacco-are-regulated-as-drugs-devices-or

There is a comment period, but I would wait and see if CASAA decides to act on this one. The comment period ends 50 days from the date of this post, so there's some time.

Thanks everyone, and GOOD LUCK!!

 

[NancyR]

Not an Entry

I won't enter this weeks as I won last week.

However, this has had me ticked. I first read about it over a week ago. I hate that they are trying to pass a loophole for them to undo what Judge Leon did.

Yeah I know some have been wanting e-cigs classed as medical, but most of them are newer vapers and don't understand had the FDA gotten away with this back in 09 and 10 a vast majority of us wouldn't have ever been able to try vaping.

 

[DavidOck]

And that's why member @Lessifer started this petition:

https://www.change.org/p/u-s-senate...products-3810d737-ccd4-4595-a600-50f3f0c55934

Thanks for the latest "heads up!" and for the contest!

 

[CountBoredom]

I followed this when @SmokeyJoe posted this thread: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/big-news-coming-out-of-fda.703013/

One thing I wondered in all of this is why no mention is made regarding relapse? We know that many smokers who try to quit fail, even when using FDA-approved NRTs. These relapses can occur as early as within a few days of quitting, weeks, months, or even years. When people who've quit relapse, they go back to smoking--they don't "get the urge" and slap on a new patch. Vaping is different in that it allows someone to reach for something other than a cigarette in a time of crisis.

I know that this is tangential to the definitions that the FDA is trying to describe, but it seems to me that shows clearly that ecigs are not in the same category as other smoking-cessation devices.

 

[rhm3769]

I've read through parts of the FDA thread, will just have to brush up on it again.... Looking at the second link posted now....

In no way is it true, but lately I've been getting a sense that many maybe find it easier to prep for the end than to fight. Admittedly, I haven't done much to support, but I've moved quite a bit since 2013 and while my vaping is common knowledge to family and friends, it is relatively hidden beyond that, however it might change in the future depending on the stance my employer takes on it.... Vaping is currently viewed the same as smoking and the company pays a smaller percentage of our benefits if we use tobacco.... I don't quite agree with that, especially since they state tobacco users spend more on healthcare, yet I've only had the annual check-ups since before I started vaping but no tobacco-free family members seem to be sick or hurt about once a month.... Not even counting my son's ER visit earlier this month for a concussion at school, insurance has paid more combined for two kids and a wife this year than myself and the employer has paid for the plan....
I'm not paying more money every month for something I'm not using but am required to have based on my decisions when my decisions do not have an affect on others, even more so when I can utilize the onsite medical center free of charge whether I have insurance or not....

 

[dcfluegel]

thanks - appreciate the contest and more importantly the info... ignorance is most assuredly not bliss, in this case

 

[redrebel821]

We can never be too informed, and have been reading all of the links. We cant just give in and let them try and shut vaping down!

Thanks for your generous contest!

 

[traderljp]

Thanks for the links to this, I appreciate the efforts to keep us informed and active! And thanks for the contest too!

 

[Sir2fyablyNutz]

I have followed the news somewhat, and I'm not in the panic mode yet. First it usually takes years for the government to do anything. Secondly we as vapers were highly tense waiting for the FDA to hand down a ruling. The FDA, in my opinion, punted... they passed the buck to another government entity.

I think it's very important for vapers to be active in support of vaping and keeping a close eye on the government actions, especially when big tobacco and big pharmaceutical can pay for elections and lies. I am a member of CASAA.

If I was involved in a vape store I would have this printed and hanging on a wall : https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...armful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review

 

[Teach]

Excellent post! Appreciate the links - the FDA and it's obvious disinformation policies will continue to try to cover up the true research about ecigs.

 

[iota]

Thank ya'! Great topic for the contest this week.

After reading the first two, I'm about to dive into the "full text" link. Not expecting anything different, but I feel compelled to keep reading for some actual positive information that won't confuse and distort.

 

[rbeckys8]

I vape and my doctor is fine with it but it could take years for the gov. to admit it's fine too..they aren't going change their minds but I will get my stuff from China if I have to...I wanted to add that at 65 and a housewife that I don't understand all the mumbo jumbo legal stuff of anything..all I want to do is live my life and do want I want and not bother anyone else...I really don't want to be told what I can and can't do in my own home..

 

[440BB]

Looks like they are inferring that ecigs are medicinal by their very nature, while inhalers get a pass. Pretty sad.

Thanks for the chance, and spreading awareness too!

 

[spartanstew]

Thanks for the chance, have been reading the threads mentioned above and think mos of it is absurd. Just waiting for CASAA to put together their response templates.

 

[Marina2]

I think I'm going to need Cliff notes on all this but I've been following as best as I can. It's the "circumstantial evidence" that the FDA is claiming to use in deeming that is particularly worrisome to me.

I see court challenges ahead.

 

[dhood]

Thanks for the new contest and I hope you had a good vacation, Crowedude.

That's a lot to read, but I have one question. If they are going to use the FDCA to claim ecigs are a "drug", wouldn't hypnotherapy also classify as well? it certainly passes the first definition: (1) claim (or imply an intention) to prevent, cure, mitigate, or treat a disease. Guess that means they need to regulate hypnotherapists as well.

Guess I'll be donating money to CASAA for the legal fight.

 

[remark]

Man, they can spin. Common sense is a thing of the past...it is an uphill battle to stay on top of this kind of junk, but it is what we must do or else they will run away with it.

TY for the information and for getting us involved!!

 

[Crowedude654]

Don't worry everyone. I'm sure that when this takes effect, there won't be any more confusion.

I'll try to summarize to the best of my knowledge. As a vendor, we are not allowed to market e-cigarettes as a smoking cessation device. That's been the case since 2010. However, up until now, we've been able to say things like:

"Contains no tobacco."
"Contains no smoke."
"Smoking alternative."
"Safer than cigarettes."
"Many of our customers have been able to quit smoking by switching to vapor products."

If/when this clarification takes effect, we won't be able to say those things. That limits us as to what information we can give you, the consumer. So imagine you just started doing research on vaping in the hopes of picking up your first starter kit. You start looking at a few websites, but can't find any information. You run a Google search and can only find negative misinformation articles, and a few real articles. What would you think? You'd probably be skeptical at the very least, and may never make the switch to vaping, which is why this whole thing is not in the best interest of public health, the consumer, or the vendor. Who does it benefit? Big Pharma (approved products) and Big Tobacco (cigarettes).

In short, the FDA is trying to say that by presenting facts that have anything to do with the health aspects of e-cigarettes, we are claiming that they treat a disease or symptom, and therefore, we are marketing e-cigarettes as a drug. If e-cigarettes are a drug, they are to be regulated like a drug (which is not good).

In 2010, Judge Leon ruled that the FDA doesn't have the authority to regulate vapor products as a drug. So basically, they're giving him the finger, and trying to do it anyway. By changing what constitutes a "drug claim" they're trying to say that since vendors have been marketing it as a drug this whole time, that vendors want to be regulated that way, which isn't even close to the case.

So what does that all mean? The FDA wants to keep the facts about vaping from the public in the hopes that they won't have the necessary information to make an informed decision. They also want to change the rules after the fact, then hold vendors accountable for breaking them before they were rules in the first place. They're making things even more confusing and difficult, while at the same time claiming that this proposal will make things simpler and easier.

Good enough for government work...

 

[Krisma]

I have been taking a very keen interest in this and read all I could on the subject. Australia follows a lot of what the FDA does and it's has a butterfly effect all over the world. The UK seems to have a sensible approach but our regulators might take what they see as the least path of resistance and follow the U.S.

A very thought provoking comp this week. Thank you

 

[Nick N]

Thanks for the contest. Maybe someday they will deem vaping a cessation tool and I can buy a new mod and supplies using my flexible spending account? [emoji57]