Manufacturers/Suppliers: What's in your cartridges?

[UncleMidriff]

Manufacturers:
As a person who gives you money so I can take your stuff, vaporize it, and inhale directly into my lungs, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want to know what your cartridges are made of.

I'm not asking for your secret nic-liquid recipe or anything like that, but I do want to have a general idea of what I'm inhaling. This includes the cartridges themselves, not just the liquid, e.g., what is the membrane (as njoy calls it) that holds the nic-liquid made of? If you tell me your cartridges contain a propylene glycol solution containing nicotine plus some food-grade flavoring agents delivered via an all-natural cotton membrane, I'd like more information, but I'd probably be fine with that. If, however, your cartridges contain pig-pee-soaked polyester of death, I'll take my business elsewhere.

Sure, you could lie, but we'd find out about it eventually, and then you'd lose most, if not all, of your business. Remember, your stuff emulates smoking tobacco cigarettes, and it doesn't even do that great a job of it. One of the only things your product has going for it is that it is supposedly a healthier alternative. If it is just as dangerous or more so to use your products, we can always go back to the Real Thing.

Suppliers:
I understand that it'll be more difficult for you to get a hold of this information than it will be for the people who actually make the cartridges. But this is a big deal to me, and to lots of other people, I'm sure. It's a big enough deal that I'm planning to go with whatever manufacturer/supplier can give me the most complete information about what is in their cartridges, even if that manufacturer/supplier charges significantly more for their cartridges (I'm looking at you, njoy). In other words, I am willing to pay a premium for this kind of peace of mind.

Is anyone else with me, or am I just being paranoid?

 

[RatInDaHat]

I was thinking the same thing..

Very curious about the packing material as well.

-Dusty-

 

[TropicalBob]

That's a completely rational request that deserves complete answers.

 

[dnakr]

Is anyone else with me, or am I just being paranoid?

How devastating would it be to all of us knowing that we went into this as a way to improve our health, only to find that the fibre they are using will still kill us.

 

[NerdyCinderella]

Again let me bring up the possiblity of having samples of the cartridge material and the eliquid analyzed at a lab ourselves.
If we could find out that the cost was within our means we could take up a collection and have the answers to our concerns.
[right:2i3n6nzy]

[/right:2i3n6nzy]

 

[UncleMidriff]

Cindy:

That is certainly an excellent idea. At least, the possibility of it should be enough to keep whoever answers this request honest.

 

[TropicalBob]

Trog or Karen could post the question on the E-Cig forum. You need someone not banned (me). The Janty guy can answer for Ruyan here, as can the Greencig guy.

 

[Smokester!]

The contents of the cartridges I sell are as described in Smokey Joes post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/phpBB3/typical-indgredients-of-e-cig-nicotine-solution--t20.html

I have contacted the manufacturer asking what the core is made of.

I'd like to point out that I am an e-smoker first and supplier second and my health comes before anything else (which was the whole point of me e-smoking!!!) so as soon as I know, you'll know.

btw...I think the whole getting cores tested would be a great idea. I'll look into that possibility too. Any ideas of what sort of tests exactly would be required?

 

[dnakr]

I emailed Ludo from RuyanXpress and asked him about the tissue inside of the Janty cartridge and here is a break down of the emails to me:

The heat that reaches the cartridge tissue is 60°C and the tissue is NOT polyester.

I do not have the exact chemical composition of the tissues used in e-cigarettes, there’s also the “confidentiality rule”... We can’t post everything in public because our adversaries would steal it.

In the meanwhile please refer to http://www.healthnz.co.nz/coynews.htm

The discussion should spin towards the new zeeland rapport, that’s fact and figures. The forum could also write to them and ask for a report on the tissue

Rachel

 

[NerdyCinderella]

Thanks Smokester for the Smokey_Joe's link. I didn't know it existed.

Browsing some of his links I see we would need another analysis after the laboratory one. We'd need a doctor of some sought to analyze the effects of inhaling this stuff - different I assume than digesting these ingredients.

Unless the ingredients are similar to the evaluations cited by TropicalBob. I believe TB gave us links to analyses conducted in New Zealand (?).

 

[karenwest1961]

Trog or Karen could post the question on the E-Cig forum. You need someone not banned (me). The Janty guy can answer for Ruyan here, as can the Greencig guy.

I'm on the fast track to being sent to e-cig.com's "banned camp" myownself. Anyway, I don't think I wanna know what's in THEIR cartridges. I may hack up a hairball. :x

 

[sanneke]

I emailed Ludo from RuyanXpress and asked him about the tissue inside of the Janty cartridge and here is a break down of the emails to me:

The heat that reaches the cartridge tissue is 60°C and the tissue is NOT polyester.

I do not have the exact chemical composition of the tissues used in e-cigarettes, there’s also the “confidentiality rule”... We can’t post everything in public because our adversaries would steal it.

In the meanwhile please refer to http://www.healthnz.co.nz/coynews.htm

The discussion should spin towards the new zeeland rapport, that’s fact and figures. The forum could also write to them and ask for a report on the tissue

Rachel

Hi Rachell,
Thanks for doing that, and posting the response.

It does not help, it only raises more questions.
The link he gave does not say much, really nothing.

It's a legit question, and we as consumers have a right to receive an answer.
I think it's better to ask the manufacturer directly, rather than asking for a report.
Do e-cig and njoy and ruyan all use the same materials?

 

[UncleMidriff]

The heat that reaches the cartridge tissue is 60°C and the tissue is NOT polyester.

I do not have the exact chemical composition of the tissues used in e-cigarettes, there’s also the “confidentiality rule”... We can’t post everything in public because our adversaries would steal it.

In the meanwhile please refer to http://www.healthnz.co.nz/coynews.htm

The discussion should spin towards the new zeeland rapport, that’s fact and figures. The forum could also write to them and ask for a report on the tissue

It's good to know the tissue is not polyester, at least for the Janty cartridges.

Confidentiality rules be damned!

It's my money, and my lungs I'm inhaling their stuff into. If a manufacturer won't give me a better idea of what their tissue is made of than "not polyester," then they don't get to have any of my money. To be clearer: I don't want the exact chemical composition of the various cartridges (though if a manufacturer wants to divulge that much information, that's fine by me). All I need to know to put my mind at ease is the general type of the material of the tissue. Is it plant-based, animal-based, or some kind of synthetic?

If it is some kind of synthetic material, then I'd like to know as much as the manufacturers are willing to tell me, so I can look into the matter myself if need be.

I realize that the temperature that reaches the cartridge tissue, under ideal conditions, isn't enough to burn anything. What I am concerned about is the odd/burnt taste some of us have been experiencing. If that problem is caused by a few stray fibers from the cartridge tissue getting down into to the atomizer where the temperatures are much greater, then knowing what the cartridge tissue is made of would be a good thing.

 

[quirky]

A simple test for the fibers is to burn them.
Nylon and polyester will melt into hard little balls at the tips but will not turn to ash.
Wool will smell like burnt hair (its not wool guys)
Cotton will shrivel and turn to ash, as will linen
Rayon, soy and bamboo will all burn but with varying degrees of ash and variations on odor

Of course I am at work and do not have a lighter!

 

[RatInDaHat]

Is it just me, or was that not an acceptable answer from Janty? This is called deflection.

-Dusty-

 

[UncleMidriff]

I'd like to clarify something:

I hope I'm not coming off as too adversarial here. It is not my intention to be threatening or mean or one of "those" customers.

I very, very, very much want to be friends with various electronic cigarette companies. I really, really, really want to have a good relationship with these companies, where I give them my money for a long, long time and they give me my sweet, sweet nicotine for a long, long time. It's just that there are a few things that we need to get cleared up before we can get to that point.

I really want you all to succeed at this.

 

[trog100]

all the "wool" out of the carts i have looks very similar to the stuff in my cheap duvet or say a cushion.. it definitely aint natural fibre of any kind.. it also burns and melts the same.. its some kind of plastic.. i just did a test.. but i dont worry too much about the fibre cos it really dosnt get hot enough to burn or melt..

but i can see peoples concerns.. e-cid go to some lengths to say what the liquid stuff is..

but the (generic) cart "wool" is some kind of synthetic plastic not natural..

the gauze around the atomizers i have pulled apart is metal.. no doubt that would get hot enough to melt plastic.. logic tells me a dry atomizer and cart will get hotter than a wet one..

https://e-cig.com/shopping/shopcontent.asp?type=certifications

as for the glycerol stuff.. it must have had some kinda safety tests cos its used commonly in night club or stage smoke machines.. but we are the guinea pigs as regards taking in the quantities we do.. it takes a while before long term effects show up..

but this is another reason to ban our product.. its untested by our governments.. i take the view that its better than the tobacco smoke i have puthered in for the past number of years.. my smokers cough disappeared pretty much overnight.. my only negative symptoms are a permanently dry mouth..

but i do wonder.. ???

trog

 

[TropicalBob]

You are not too adversarial with a question regarding healthy use of a product they sell. But remember that it took a Congressional inquiry to open up tobacco companies to what they use in their tobacco products -- and much remains a "trade secret" because we surely don't want competitors to know what is used. What a farce. Just be upfront with consumers, please.

 

[RatInDaHat]

I figure that under perfect day/perfect conditions, the "wool" will not melt. Problem is that these are used in imperfect ways and abused more than they probably should be. I have concerns about the material just because i do not know what it is.

There are medical grade materials(silicones, etc.) which withstand very high temps and would probably serve the purpose perfectly. I'm sure they do cost quite a bit more though.

-Dusty-

 

[Smokester!]

There may be another question we should ask ourselves and the manufacturers and that may be;

Whatever is being used as the carrier for the liquid then a)what temperature does the atomiser get to, and, b)at what temperature does the carrier begin to emit toxic fumes (if any, depending on the carrier).