Massachusetts AG Dropped the Bomb - Regs start 9/25/15

[Mowgli]

Online sales will go to hell. Third party online age verification with age verification at delivery.

Many vendors won't be able to afford to use verification services so MA shipping won't be an option.

This will effect every Massachusetts vaper. Every bottle of juice, coil, tank, etc.

Yes, this means hardware. It doesn't matter that hardware can have other uses.

Anyone have CASAA, SFATA or Mass Smoke Free links to analysis besides Facebook?

 

[Mowgli]

 

[stevegmu]

ProVape already requires signed delivery. I don't think age verification, signed delivery is more than a couple $. Online wine stores have been doing it for years now...

 

[Mowgli]

ProVape already requires signed delivery. I don't think age verification, signed delivery is more than a couple $. Online wine stores have been doing it for years now...

ProVape doesn't require a third party online age verification service.

Most vendors won't spare the expense and will just drop Mass as an option.

As a matter of fact Empire e-liquids has already sent out notification that they won't be shipping to Mass.

 

[stevegmu]

ProVape doesn't require a third party online age verification service.

Most vendors won't spare the expense and will just drop Mass as an option.

As a matter of fact Empire E-Liquids has already sent out notification that they won't be shipping to Mass.

I didn't say they do, I said they already require signature delivery.
I don't think the age verification services cost much...

 

[kardia]

While I don't like the way these regulations are coming into effect (through the AG's office rather than the legislature), I hope that online vendors will begin to adopt this type of age verification as standard practice; in my view it's the only chance we have of online sales surviving long term. I don't love the regulations, and as a recent MA ex-pat I hope there is continued advocacy and pushback on this process, but (again as a recent MA ex-pat) I'm honestly surprised online sales survived in any form.

 

[Katya]

Oh, Mowgli. So sorry... CA tried to something similar once, they failed, but I'm sure they are going to try again.

Stevegmu, seriously, with all due respect, you have no idea what a headache is it--for the vendors and the buyers. Third party verification is costly, cumbersome and then there are issues of privacy. We discussed it at length when CA tried to pass similar bills... It's nothing like ProVari requiring a signature upon delivery. Besides, how often does one buy a ProVari? And how many vapers do actually buy a ProVari?

With this bill, every purchase, even the most trivial one, will be affected, i.e., more difficult to order and more expensive to ship. And what happens to folks who actually work and can't be home at the time of delivery? And live far from their post offices? What about PO hours? What if you can't make it on time?

 

[stevegmu]

The adult film arts industry has been using age verification for years, as has online wine and cigar retailers, ammunition dealers, loose tobacco retailers. What's the problem?

If one worries so much about having their privacy intruded upon they should get rid of their computer, cell phone, credit cards...

 

[Katya]

The adult film arts industry has been using age verification for years, as has online wine and cigar retailers, ammunition dealers, loose tobacco retailers. What's the problem?

 

[Mowgli]

Beat it Steve. Go argue with Zoidman or something. You're not contributing here.

Every vape related purchase in the State will be effected.

Here's an example of a small part of the problem...

 

[stevegmu]

Seems like a pretty good outcome for a state like Massachusetts. They could have ended up like Arkansas...

 

[Katya]

Beat it Steve. Go argue with Zoidman or something. You're not contributing here.

I hear Prague is beautiful this time of year...

Every vape related purchase in the State will be effected.

I know, Mowgli. Every time you want to order a drip tip or a 5-pack of coils you'll have to go through the same procedures as people buying a Glock or a case of whiskey... This is absolutely outrageous.

Can you guys fight it? Can this be challenged in court?

 

[stevegmu]

I don't think you guys have any idea how age verification works...

 

[Mowgli]

I know, Mowgli. Every time you want to order a drip tip or a 5-pack of coils you'll have to go through the same procedures as people buying a Glock or a case of whiskey... This is absolutely outrageous.

Can you guys fight it? Can this be challenged in court?

Is this post in the correct area?
I ask because, to answer your question, there is no legislative process here regarding the AG.
She says it's a law and it is. That's how I understand it. No voting required.
I don't know if fighting it will have any effect or if it's even an option in MA.

Anyone have any links to analysis of Friday's bombshell?

 

[Katya]

Sorry, I don't. You may try reposting in CASAA forum and see what they have to say. I would also contact SFATA and see what they are doing.

But I found our old thread and a wonderful letter Uma wrote on the subject.

Oh, no, it's alive! CA no-shipping bill AB1500 assigned to committee | Page 8 | E-Cigarette Forum

And this:

Oh, no, it's alive! CA no-shipping bill AB1500 assigned to committee | Page 7 | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[zapped]

how many hours are you from the next state Mowgli?

Its an imperfect solution I know, but I would look into renting a po box in
Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island or Vermont. Whichever is closest to you.

 

[Mowgli]

how many hours are you from the next state Mowgli?

Its an imperfect solution I know, but I would look into renting a po box in
Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island or Vermont. Whichever is closest to you.

My best friend lives in Keene, NH, about 55 miles away.
I used to drive to NH to get cartons, about 50 miles round trip...and it's a beautiful ride

I'm a vape prepper. I have 2 gallons of nic, almost 4 gallons of VG & about 1.5 gllons of PG.
I have about 25 good sized bottles of flavoring but that is probably not effected.
I have enough mods & tanks to last a lifetime and a ....load of coils & batteries.
The guy that owns the closest B&M also owns 3 shops in NH. Nuff said there.
I DIY and CMA
I'm only slightly bothered for my own inconvenience. I'm a full fledged vaper as I live and breath.

I'm concerned for our smoking friends, neighbors and countrymen that haven't switched yet.
Our friends that supply juice and own B&Ms have their livelihood being threatened.

Better than it could be still ....ing sucks because it will cost lives.

 

[WhiteHighlights]

UGH. Welcome to MA, the New Nanny State. Save the children, kill the parents.

I'm with you Mowgli. I'm more concerned about those that are still smoking. After nearly 2 yrs I'm mostly over shinyitis, I DIY (just ordered a bit more nic for the freezer so it will be here under the deadline), and I can get stuff shipped to NH if need be (mom used to live in Keene). I've never been to a B&M, all my learning and ordering has been online, except for the Blu starter kit I purchased at Costco in NH.

I'm in business. Set up an ID system and implement it in 2 weeks? Not gonna happen, leaving not shipping to MA as the only option. Larger vendors may be able to roll out a system over time, but that takes resources and money. It's another barrier to small businesses - there has to be enough demand (and profit) to justify the expenditure. Did you notice that the child proof bottles have to meet a certification too? Yes, they're available but I really don't know if most vendors are using them already. It could be an added cost to switch. This state by state regulation is a minefield.

 

[Mowgli]

Shopowner & ultravapingadvocate Chris P says the Governor will approve NO EXTRA TAXES in Mass.

Small but important win.

 

[Mowgli]

Did you notice that the child proof bottles have to meet a certification too? Yes, they're available but I really don't know if most vendors are using them already. It could be an added cost to switch. This state by state regulation is a minefield.

Some of the best craft juice makers have been using them proactively.
New England Vapers have some super advocates (CA too of course).
If we can get stuck with nasty regs then anyone can.

State by State & town by town

IMO the FDA is kicking back, letting the field get muddied by local regs so they can sweep in and impose brutal regs to "save the day"