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Massachusetts banned e-cigs entirely... smh

Discussion in 'Legislation News' started by BigPappa, Sep 24, 2019.

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  1. Iron Molly

    Iron Molly Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 27, 2010
    State of Anxiety
    I think the problem is they are trying to apply analog cigarette laws to vaping products, and it doesn't fit. I can see them attempting to take your car if you have a trunk load of untaxed cigs (not that I agree with that either). And all cig packs have a tax stamp, vape products do not. Cigs are consumable, what they define as "e-cig" products (hardware) are not.
     
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  2. AttyPops

    AttyPops Yeah, I type stuff. ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Right on all counts. But I think there's significant overlap. Sure, there's "hardware". But there's paper cartons, boxes, and packs with cigs too I suppose. It's all just "grouped". I think, if I read it properly, it's >??? "nic vaping" or its not??? And the THC/green stuff? IDK. Didn't someone say "just claim it's for the green and you're good!" ;)

    Oy.
     
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  3. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    There's an Old say'n... "Good Intentions but a Poor Design is still a Poor Design."

    If it is (Questionably) Legal to Seize someone's Car because they Don't have a Tax Stamp on their e-Cigarette, aren't we Leaving that decision up to the Officer who stops you as to whether or not to Seize your Vehicle?

    Is that the Type of Ultimate Authority we want to Vest in a Patrol Officer?

    Sure... When I get on the Extreme edge of the curve and someone has a Trunk Full of 10,000 Bootleg JUUL Carts, the Rational seems more Plausible.

    But where is the Line Drawn between what is Rational and what is a 4th Amendment Violation?

    And When does the Punishment Not Fit the Crime?
     
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  4. AttyPops

    AttyPops Yeah, I type stuff. ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    That's the way it works for everything. It's the design. The cop has to decide if you broke ____ law. ANY law.
    That's why we have courts too.

    When it happens, I suppose. So far, we're freaking about some hypothetical. Of course I admit that's damn easy for me to say, I don't live in Mass-tyranny-achusetts. But I think once it happens some precedent/clarification is in order, if not overturning that part entirely. The recent SCOTUS rulings give me a glimmer of hope, but they keep stacking the courts with conservatives, so that hope is dying fast (they tend toward the "tough on crime/punishment" side.)
     
  5. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    The Deference is in the Due Process.

    If an Officer say's I was Speeding or was DUI, I can basically go about my Life while I wait for my My Day in Court.

    But if My Car is seized, which BTW is Before I have been Found Guilty of Breaking a Law or Violating a Code, I might have a Hard Time even getting to my Day in Court. Let Alone getting to Work to make the Money needed for that Lawyer to stand next me on the Other Side of the Bar.

    You are Right. This is why we have a Court System. But isn't our system of Law based on handing out Punishment after a Person is Found to Be Guilty of a Crime?

    Not Before.
     
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  6. AttyPops

    AttyPops Yeah, I type stuff. ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I totally agree.
    However, it's not seized, it's "impounded pending a decision". ;)
    I think it sucks too. And I don't think it's what the founders intended. But modern times demand some modern solution, not for us average citizens, but for rather sophisticated drug dealers.

    What about the person in Wisconsin that rented a house to a mom and kiddies that make x1000's of illegal THC carts full of Vit-E-a? Does that house get confiscated? Wow.

    Sometimes I think we take this crap too far. How is the landlord supposed to know kid-dirt was going to start making carts? The criminals didn't risk their own house, they rented one.

    All this stuff sucks, further expletives deleted. I mean, it's why we need common sense on the bench. The big-cartel drug dealers shouldn't be able to keep those ill-gotten-gains though either. I mean, people (as in our society) died for them in most cases.
     
  7. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Tell that to the Nice Person at the Impound Yard when they Inform you that the cost has been 75 Dollars a Day + a $225 Towing Charge.

    LOL
     
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  8. Blitzdonlife

    Blitzdonlife Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 24, 2012
    Central Texas
    I had a MC stolen a couple years ago. Luckily they recovered it, but they had to impound it for investigation/fingerprinting etc. I went to pick it up and had to pay $250 for 2 days storage. Thought that was pretty crazy, that they charged me that much to store it at a garage, outside, with no fence. Heck, they could have at least washed and waxed it :p
     
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  9. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
    I think the "seizure" part is expected to get shot down as a bargaining chip. I think it's included so when it gets deleted they'll say "we gave on the seizure clause, now we expect you'll give in to the 75% tax enema".

    Cops almost always add an extra driving across the lines or resisting arrest as a bargaining chip so you can feel better when you only get shafted 15/16 as much. Um, that's what a friend told me ;)
     
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  10. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
     
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  11. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
    I got a new sticker to upgrade my vape cabinet :)
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
     
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