Max flavor out of MTL RTA?

[MichaellMcCoyy]

First off, I would like to say that I’m very new to vaping. I started off with a JUUL, then a smok Novo 2, and eventually got sick of buying pods.

Now I have a Hellvape MD, and an Ares 2 - the first provides better flavor, but it’s still not comparable to what I was getting in my pod systems. I just recently purchased a BP Mods Pioneer, and I’m hoping that gives me better results. I’m using an Aegis Mini for a mod.

I’m trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong, because it’s really frustrating to spend all this money for worse flavor, when I was hoping it would let me save money.

I have about 40 bottles of salt nic flavors that are 50 or 35 mg, and a couple 3mg freebase I bought (120ml for $7 seemed like a steal). I would really like to get away from the salt nic, but I seem to get even worse flavor from the 3mg.

I’m using 2.5ID 28ga SS316L round wire from Master Wire Supply (I have a spool) with Puffs Organic Cotton. My coils are usually .7ohms, but I’ve tried up to 1ohm. I’ve also tried 1 ohm Vandy Vape Superfine MTL fused claptons, and experienced similar results.

I’m using the MD with the most restrictive airflow settings (3 small hole airflow disk), low (2-3) adjustable AFC setting. I have my coil as low as possible to the airflow, and I have thinned / fluffed my wicks.

I haven’t tried adjusting the airflow below the coil on the Ares 2, because the video instructions say wide open airflow below the coil is the best for flavor (I have found the opposite to be true for the MD).

Can someone provide me more insight?

Will 2mm ID coils with the same amount of wraps taste better than 2.5? Do coil ohms do anything for flavor, or does it only change how fast it heats up? Will I lose flavor if my coils hang outside the diameter of the airflow disk?
Is there a certain type of coil that would give me better flavor than regular round wire?

I use TC at 420F 20 watts


Any kind of feedback is appreciated and if I left anything out or you have questions about my set up that could help me out please ask! I’m at a loss on what to do, and it seems like no amount of research is helping

 

[Seiggy]

I think I would try using your build but start with wattage. TC 420F @ 20 watts seems a little low to get much flavor. I would say start with about 20 watts and increase about 5 watts to see where your flavor starts to come out. Once you get cozy with wattage mode, then switch to TC mode and adjust your wattage to match what it was in wattage mode. You may also increase wattage in TC about 10 watts. I hope this makes sense and helps.
Forgot to add that I'm using an Ares 2 with a 1.2 ohm Superfine MTL Clapton 30ga+38ga in TC at 450F & 40 watts.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

I think I would try using your build but start with wattage. TC 420F @ 20 watts seems a little low to get much flavor. I would say start with about 20 watts and increase about 5 watts to see where your flavor starts to come out. Once you get cozy with wattage mode, then switch to TC mode and adjust your wattage to match what it was in wattage mode. You may also increase wattage in TC about 10 watts. I hope this makes sense and helps.

I don’t really like wattage mode because I tend to burn my cotton/coils by taking long or back to back drags. It’s my understanding that the wattage adjustment in TC mode just brings it to temperature faster.

 

[Seiggy]

I don’t really like wattage mode

I understand and agree but I would use wattage mode first to determine what wattage setting gives you the flavor you would like. Then once you know that, use it in TC mode and make adj. as you see fit. I forgot to add but I'm using an Ares 2 with a 1.2 ohm Superfine MTL Clapton 30ga+38ga SS in TC at 450F & 40 watts. I started in wattage mode and started to get flavor at about 30 watts that I liked then switch to TC mode.

 

[vaper1960]

I don't think 2mm coils would be any better (I actually prefer 3mm myself but will go down to 2.5 mm if it's a very small build deck (like some RBAs) I've never used TC (nothing against it just happy using wattage mode myself) Also, Before I do the wick, I do a "dry burn" (at lower wattage than I expect to be using) This helps me see how quick the coil glows and get an idea of what my final wattage will be. Another issue is wicking... and all of this also depends on the juice (mostly the VG/PG ratio) Many variables so hang in there and you will work this out. Personally, I get great flavor from my RTAs but I do looser airflow (MTL) or even restricted DL. BTW, 3mg juice is too weak for MTL (if you are used to 35-50 mg salts) I have got those bargain deals on juice and some are actually great... but some just sucked.

 

[vaper1960]

I don’t really like wattage mode because I tend to burn my cotton/coils by taking long or back to back drags.

With the tight airflow, your coil will heat up too much doing that. Either have more airflow or simply take shorter draws and pause between draws. If you want to "chain vape", you need a RTA (and specific build) that can do that.

 

[vaper1960]

Now I have a Hellvape MD, and an Ares 2 - the first provides better flavor, but it’s still not comparable to what I was getting in my pod systems. I just recently purchased a BP Mods Pioneer, and I’m hoping that gives me better results.

Don't have those myself (but would like to) They all seem very popular and should give decent flavor.

 

[vaper1960]

Like I said... wicking is a whole subject of it's own. Somewhat tight is good but it can be so tight it won't wick enough juice (you may not get an actual "dry hit" but the vapor will be weak and very little flavor) Rayon is nice too.

 

[vaper1960]

BTW, I won a nice little pod/mod (refillable pods) and I like it but I'm not going to pay $6 each for pods (plus shipping)

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Put the coil up high as close to the chimney as possible without the coil touching any metal and shorting out. I find this gives gives the best flavor. I find that the shorter the length from the coil to your mouth, the more flavor you get, which is why short atties with short chimneys seem to be great flavor tanks.

Maybe I'm full of ? Try it and let me know.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Put the coil up high as close to the chimney as possible without the coil touching any metal and shorting out. I find this gives gives the best flavor. I find that the shorter the length from the coil to your mouth, the more flavor you get, which is why short atties with short chimneys seem to be great flavor tanks.

Maybe I'm full of ? Try it and let me know.

I thought the whole point of keeping it as low to the airflow as possible was so that when you inhale, the air passes directly over the coil and gives more flavor/vapor? Regardless it can’t hurt to try and lift it up. I’ll let you know lol

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

BTW, I won a nice little pod/mod (refillable pods) and I like it but I'm not going to pay $6 each for pods (plus shipping)

exactly why I stopped using my novo :/ and the pod life was only a day or two

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

With the tight airflow, your coil will heat up too much doing that. Either have more airflow or simply take shorter draws and pause between draws. If you want to "chain vape", you need a RTA (and specific build) that can do that.

Oddly enough I never get a warm vape.... which is the way I want it, but yeah. Even on the Ares 2 - I just closed down the airflow under the coil, and I’m using the smallest hole on the adjustable. Literally 0 flavor, but not hot. Going to loosen it up to maybe half and see if it gets better. I’ve never tried rayon, but I don’t see how it would improve flavor. My cotton is always pretty wet, but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to try seeing as I don’t know what else to do

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

I don't think 2mm coils would be any better (I actually prefer 3mm myself but will go down to 2.5 mm if it's a very small build deck (like some RBAs) I've never used TC (nothing against it just happy using wattage mode myself) Also, Before I do the wick, I do a "dry burn" (at lower wattage than I expect to be using) This helps me see how quick the coil glows and get an idea of what my final wattage will be. Another issue is wicking... and all of this also depends on the juice (mostly the VG/PG ratio) Many variables so hang in there and you will work this out. Personally, I get great flavor from my RTAs but I do looser airflow (MTL) or even restricted DL. BTW, 3mg juice is too weak for MTL (if you are used to 35-50 mg salts) I have got those bargain deals on juice and some are actually great... but some just sucked.

I was dry burning originally, but someone told me I shouldn’t dry burn SS316L spaced coils so I stopped. Can’t say it’s made a difference in my coils/cotton not burning because I also changed my TCR, which was way too high.

The standard TCR on the mini is 105 for stainless, but I get more flavor at like 120 (460F). Then I have to deal with changing my coils and cotton every tank because they’re completely black.

At any wattage, I get better flavor in TC mode. Idk, maybe Geekvape will finally reply to me so I can sort this TCR value out and narrow down my problem a little bit easier

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

I understand and agree but I would use wattage mode first to determine what wattage setting gives you the flavor you would like. Then once you know that, use it in TC mode and make adj. as you see fit. I forgot to add but I'm using an Ares 2 with a 1.2 ohm Superfine MTL Clapton 30ga+38ga SS in TC at 450F & 40 watts. I started in wattage mode and started to get flavor at about 30 watts that I liked then switch to TC mode.

Is it a spool or premade coils? If it’s a spool I’d be interested in knowing where you got it. I’m trying to steer clear of premades

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Put the coil up high as close to the chimney as possible without the coil touching any metal and shorting out. I find this gives gives the best flavor. I find that the shorter the length from the coil to your mouth, the more flavor you get, which is why short atties with short chimneys seem to be great flavor tanks.

Maybe I'm full of ? Try it and let me know.

Tried it, closer to the airflow was better. That’s literally the only reason I like the Ares 2 - I can unscrew it really quickly, put the tank upside down, make adjustments, screw it back together, and vape it all within about 20 seconds without any leaks/gurgling.

I think this is more of “a learn how to use an RTA” tank than a flavor banger, which is disappointing, because I bought it after I couldn’t get my MD to stop leaking (which I fixed). So now it will be a “sit on my desk and never get used” RTA.

All my research has pointed to it not being a flavorful RTA, so I guess it was my fault for not doing my research before pulling the trigger - I just searched for something that wouldn’t leak

I’ll just work on perfecting my MD until the Pioneer gets here Tuesday and hopefully eases my pain

 

[Jebbn]

I don’t really like wattage mode because I tend to burn my cotton/coils by taking long or back to back drags. It’s my understanding that the wattage adjustment in TC mode just brings it to temperature faster.

Sounds like you might not be getting your wicking quite right. Even in TC mode your wicking has to be pretty good or you wil get muted flavours.
Try wicking your coils so you dont burn your coils in wattage mode and then move to TC.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Is it a spool or premade coils? If it’s a spool I’d be interested in knowing where you got it. I’m trying to steer clear of premades

Nvm I found it on MyVPro from Vandy Vape lol should’ve searched before I replied. Cheers

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I thought the whole point of keeping it as low to the airflow as possible was so that when you inhale, the air passes directly over the coil and gives more flavor/vapor? Regardless it can’t hurt to try and lift it up. I’ll let you know lol

Wotofo Serpent mini. Short RTA with short chimney. Flavor is the most intense of all the tanks I have, which all have longer chimneys.

I've vaping that Serpent Mini at 18 watts on 1.2 ohm Kanthal 26 gauge coil - plain old round wire, nuttin' fancy.

Realize though, taste is subjective. What I am calling amazing flavor you might say is flavorless lol

But you have nothing to lose by raising the coil up as high as it can go to see how much of a difference it makes. Increasing heat by increasing wattage can also increase flavor. Start at your 20W and increase it by 0.5 watts at a time and see if you get better flavor as you go increase.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Sounds like you might not be getting your wicking quite right. Even in TC mode your wicking has to be pretty good or you wil get muted flavours.
Try wicking your coils so you dont burn your coils in wattage mode and then move to TC.

Fair point. I used the steam engine calculator for the appropriate wattage of coils, I just never got the right flavor. Idk what else I could do for wicking because I cut them the appropriate length, and I found that I barely need to thin the wicks for 50/50 (any more and it starts to leak). I’ll give wattage mode another go, though