Max flavor out of MTL RTA?

[ShowMeTwice]

For cotton I use Cottonman's Carolina blend, Mavaton's Select and Mavaton's X. I've tried most of the other cottons out there and for me, meh. I get 10-14 days with flavored and up to 30 days with flavorless. His cotton lasts a long time. Longer than any other I've tried. It's clean with minimal break-in time. Been using his cotton for years.

For rayon I use the Tidi rayon balls. Wicking lasts the same for me. Break-in time is shorter with rayon vs cotton.

I DIY my juice and am not heavy handed with flavors. Most are in the 3 to 8 percent range using super to ultra concentrates. There are only a handful of recipes I have that go over 10% and none over 12%. No NET's and I don't do sweet juices. Those are known coil/wick killers.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I was thinking. Could be something is wrong with your taste buds lately. Never know. It would be interesting if you could get a hold of another pod to see if you still think the flavor is as good as it was.

 

[Fstop]

First off, I would like to say that I’m very new to vaping. I started off with a JUUL, then a smok Novo 2, and eventually got sick of buying pods.

Now I have a Hellvape MD, and an Ares 2 - the first provides better flavor, but it’s still not comparable to what I was getting in my pod systems. I just recently purchased a BP Mods Pioneer, and I’m hoping that gives me better results. I’m using an Aegis Mini for a mod.

I’m trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong, because it’s really frustrating to spend all this money for worse flavor, when I was hoping it would let me save money.

I have about 40 bottles of salt nic flavors that are 50 or 35 mg, and a couple 3mg freebase I bought (120ml for $7 seemed like a steal). I would really like to get away from the salt nic, but I seem to get even worse flavor from the 3mg.

I’m using 2.5ID 28ga SS316L round wire from Master Wire Supply (I have a spool) with Puffs Organic Cotton. My coils are usually .7ohms, but I’ve tried up to 1ohm. I’ve also tried 1 ohm Vandy Vape Superfine MTL fused claptons, and experienced similar results.

I’m using the MD with the most restrictive airflow settings (3 small hole airflow disk), low (2-3) adjustable AFC setting. I have my coil as low as possible to the airflow, and I have thinned / fluffed my wicks.

I haven’t tried adjusting the airflow below the coil on the Ares 2, because the video instructions say wide open airflow below the coil is the best for flavor (I have found the opposite to be true for the MD).

Can someone provide me more insight?

Will 2mm ID coils with the same amount of wraps taste better than 2.5? Do coil ohms do anything for flavor, or does it only change how fast it heats up? Will I lose flavor if my coils hang outside the diameter of the airflow disk?
Is there a certain type of coil that would give me better flavor than regular round wire?

I use TC at 420F 20 watts


Any kind of feedback is appreciated and if I left anything out or you have questions about my set up that could help me out please ask! I’m at a loss on what to do, and it seems like no amount of research is helping

Most overlooked component in Vape Quest for Flavors. I'm kind of new to current level of Gadgetry Vaping. Looking the right Drip Tip with a maximum 2.5mm, I'd settle for 3mm Bore. I'm enjoying a Diluted version of Appilo's Sahara, 0 Nicotine, 2*.06 airflow insert my coil 2mm, 30AWG, 7-8 Wraps at 2.03ohms, 11W, on a 16mm 2ml Dvarw

 

[Fstop]

For cotton I use Cottonman's Carolina blend, Mavaton's Select and Mavaton's X. I've tried most of the other cottons out there and for me, meh. I get 10-14 days with flavored and up to 30 days with flavorless. His cotton lasts a long time. Longer than any other I've tried. It's clean with minimal break-in time. Been using his cotton for years.

For rayon I use the Tidi rayon balls. Wicking lasts the same for me. Break-in time is shorter with rayon vs cotton.

I DIY my juice and am not heavy handed with flavors. Most are in the 3 to 8 percent range using super to ultra concentrates. There are only a handful of recipes I have that go over 10% and none over 12%. No NET's and I don't do sweet juices. Those are known coil/wick killers.

How about a link to your cotton supplies . I've just been ordering cotton in the dark

 

[ShowMeTwice]

How about a link to your cotton supplies . I've just been ordering cotton in the dark

Fine Cotton Wick | The Cotton Man

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

I cram a 3mm coil in a Vicious Ant Cyclone. I also use Nichrome 80 for flavor. Kanthal was the hype back a few years ago. So I bought a .... ton of it. Then I bought some Nichrome back a couple years ago, and haven’t switched since.

You prefer nichrome to stainless?

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

The one thing on my flavor chase that I did was to try Mesh. Personally mesh gives me more flavor than my MTL RTA/RDA's. Only issues with mesh that I have is, it drinks juice...At lot of it.... There are a lot of mesh RDA's, RTA's & RDTA's out there. Profile 1.5, Profile RDTA, for just a few I'm using. Yes, I'm using them in TC mode. Yes, I've even got into squonking to keep up with my flavor habit...... But this is off topic but something to consider down the road your walking.

Not a bad suggestion, seeing as I’m coming from mesh pods and trying to match the flavor. I have 3 RTA’s now though and would prefer to try and make them work to the best of their ability

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

You've gotten a lot of solid info from folks.

I would add the following... my opinions and .

Adjusting coil height will affect flavor and throat hit. Some like their coil lower and some prefer it higher. My preference is ~1.5mm above the airflow (Kayfun's, Dvarw's) but I have a few RTA's where I go higher and also lower. All depends. Try higher and lower until you find your sweet spot and what works best for you.

You can dry burn SS316L coils. They should only be dry burned to a dim orange glow. Never light them up to a bright orange/red, ever. The guy at Adavanced Vape Supply has great info on this.

Coil ID is trial and error. I have some RBA's I like at 2mm, some 2.5mm and others higher. You need to find what will work best for you. So try some different ID's.

Wicking is a total "feel" thing. Getting the amount (thickness) correct in the coil requires some trial and error. Some RTA's do well with a little less and some do better tighter through the coil. It all depends. General rule of thumb is: too loose = flooding OR too tight = dry hits. You should "feel" resistance when moving your wick side-to-side within the coil.

Cotton versus Rayon. Many prefer one or the other. I switch off using both in all my RBA's. If using rayon; it requires approximately 1/3 more thickness versus cotton. Rayon contracts while cotton expands.

As others have suggested, 1st find your sweet spot with what gives you the best flavor and vape in wattage mode. Once you have that set then move onto TC. I vape both watts and TC equally.

With TC or wattage modes I never lock resistance on any mod. Don't need to. Especially if it's a DNA chip. Evolv recommends against it.

I have some GeekVape Aegis Solo's that I run in both TC and TCR modes. I never lock resistance. Works great. Their firmware is pretty standard across the product line as is the UI.

With vaping setups there is no best for all. It always comes down to what works best for each individual. And only you can find what works best for You.

Good luck

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Do you use stainless coils? If so, what TCR do you use on the solo? (I hope it’s the same chip)

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

For cotton I use Cottonman's Carolina blend, Mavaton's Select and Mavaton's X. I've tried most of the other cottons out there and for me, meh. I get 10-14 days with flavored and up to 30 days with flavorless. His cotton lasts a long time. Longer than any other I've tried. It's clean with minimal break-in time. Been using his cotton for years.

For rayon I use the Tidi rayon balls. Wicking lasts the same for me. Break-in time is shorter with rayon vs cotton.

I DIY my juice and am not heavy handed with flavors. Most are in the 3 to 8 percent range using super to ultra concentrates. There are only a handful of recipes I have that go over 10% and none over 12%. No NET's and I don't do sweet juices. Those are known coil/wick killers.

I’ll look into that cotton, thank you. I didn’t think that different types of cotton could be any better, tbh. Do you just find they just last longer, like you said, or do you think they give slightly better flavor somehow?

I really love sweet juices. I find most commercial juices just taste like slightly flavored air. I’m looking for a full flavor, coat your mouth kind of juice, which I have only gotten from Vape 100 Ripe Iced Peachy Mango Pineapple. Everything else has just paled in comparison and it’s pretty disappointing

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I cannot see any flavor differences between Kanthal, Nichrome 80 and SS. Maybe the differences are only noticeable above 20W because I taste no difference at 20W and lower.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Do you use stainless coils? If so, what TCR do you use on the solo? (I hope it’s the same chip)

You're welcome.

Yes, I use ss316L simple round and claptons primarily. For me kanthal has a crappy metallic taste I do not appreciate.

I run 8-12 mods (mechs and regs) and RBA's all the time. About half I run in straight TC (DNA) or TC/TCR (Asmodus and others).

On the GeekVape Aegis Solo the default TCR is 105, which works fine for me. But I also run it in TCR mode and I've set it anywhere from 110-125.

There is a chart floating around that shows the TCR range for ss316L. I seem to recall 88-140, might even be higher.

And those TCR settings also depend on the quality of the SS316L wire used. Some Chinese wire is very honestly, junk. While other wires are of a much higher quality. Such as wire from reputable suppliers like Advanced Vape Supply, WireOptim, Kbee, Temco and Zivipf.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I’ll look into that cotton, thank you. I didn’t think that different types of cotton could be any better, tbh. Do you just find they just last longer, like you said, or do you think they give slightly better flavor somehow?

I really love sweet juices. I find most commercial juices just taste like slightly flavored air. I’m looking for a full flavor, coat your mouth kind of juice, which I have only gotten from Vape 100 Ripe Iced Peachy Mango Pineapple. Everything else has just paled in comparison and it’s pretty disappointing

My opinion is there is cotton and there is cotton. Cottonman's is clean and very high quality. Do I find his cottons provide superior flavor over all the other brands I've tried? Absolutely. I have tried most of them.

Try as many as you can in order to find what works best for you.

Also try rayon. Some find rayon provides superior flavor over cotton. I use both.

As far as juice goes if you want complete control over what you are vaping, its quality and ingredients get into DIY. I got into DIY shortly after I started vaping in 2012 because I thought all the retail juices I tried sucked. And I tried many. It's well known that retail juices are over flavored and use way too much sweetener.

 

[zoiDman]

... I also use Nichrome 80 for flavor. Kanthal was the hype back a few years ago. So I bought a .... ton of it. Then I bought some Nichrome back a couple years ago, and haven’t switched since.

When I 1st got into Building my own coils (on Genny's), everything I built tasted strange. I tried Bigger Coils, Smaller Coils, More Loops, Less Loops, Different Wire Gauges, Different Cotton, Different Atomizers. No Joy at all.

So I just Gave Up Building Coils for a Couple of Months and just Stayed with CE2's.

Then One Day it Hit Me. CE2's (Like all the Early Stuff) used NiChrome 80. And I was Using Kanthal A1 because that was the new "Hot Ticket" at the time.

So I got a Piece of NiChrome 80 at a B&M and the 1st Build I did with it Tasted Good. Very Good In Fact. A week later I gave ALL my Kanthal away. And haven't used any since.

Today, I use mostly SS in my RDA's. But all my RTA's are built with NiChrome 80.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

You're welcome.

Yes, I use ss316L simple round and claptons primarily. For me kanthal has a crappy metallic taste I do not appreciate.

I run 8-12 mods (mechs and regs) and RBA's all the time. About half I run in straight TC (DNA) or TC/TCR (Asmodus and others).

On the GeekVape Aegis Solo the default TCR is 105, which works fine for me. But I also run it in TCR mode and I've set it anywhere from 110-125.

There is a chart floating around that shows the TCR range for ss316L. I seem to recall 88-140, might even be higher.

And those TCR settings also depend on the quality of the SS316L wire used. Some Chinese wire is very honestly, junk. While other wires are of a much higher quality. Such as wire from reputable suppliers like Advanced Vape Supply, WireOptim, Kbee, Temco and Zivipf.

You know... it might just be my wire. It had good reviews on Amazon, but after trying some NI80 that came included with my new RTA (at the default TCR setting) and getting amazing results, I’m starting to think it’s not their TCR settings.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

I cannot see any flavor differences between Kanthal, Nichrome 80 and SS. Maybe the differences are only noticeable above 20W because I taste no difference at 20W and lower.

Yeah, that has been my experience as well. I just tried NI80 today and didn’t notice any difference. I only preferred ss to kanthal because I wanted to dial in my TC

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

My opinion is there is cotton and there is cotton. Cottonman's is clean and very high quality. Do I find his cottons provide superior flavor over all the other brands I've tried? Absolutely. I have tried most of them.

Try as many as you can in order to find what works best for you.

Also try rayon. Some find rayon provides superior flavor over cotton. I use both.

As far as juice goes if you want complete control over what you are vaping, its quality and ingredients get into DIY. I got into DIY shortly after I started vaping in 2012 because I thought all the retail juices I tried sucked. And I tried many. It's well known that retail juices are over flavored and use way too much sweetener.

I think I am going to try to use rayon and if that doesn’t produce better results, I will try his cotton.

As far as juices go - I always wanted to DIY but I have nowhere to store everything and I’d have to closet my 3D printers just to have table space. Wife + baby = minimal space for me lol.

I wish I could find another juice that had enough sweetness and flavor for me... I just went to the store today and asked for their sweetest juice. Well - I got sweet, but not a lot of flavor.... Never had that before. Almost made me sick it was so sweet, but if it had the flavor to match it, I think I’d have a new ADV.

I just bought some 3mg free mans freebase juice and one of their nic salts because of the $8 sale. I’m hoping something from there will satisfy me, but if not, at least my supervisor will be happy with free juice.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

When I 1st got into Building my own coils (on Genny's), everything I built tasted strange. I tried Bigger Coils, Smaller Coils, More Loops, Less Loops, Different Wire Gauges, Different Cotton, Different Atomizers. No Joy at all.

So I just Gave Up Building Coils for a Couple of Months and just Stayed with CE2's.

Then One Day it Hit Me. CE2's (Like all the Early Stuff) used NiChrome 80. And I was Using Kanthal A1 because that was the new "Hot Ticket" at the time.

So I got a Piece of NiChrome 80 at a B&M and the 1st Build I did with it Tasted Good. Very Good In Fact. A week later I gave ALL my Kanthal away. And haven't used any since.

Today, I use mostly SS in my RDA's. But all my RTA's are built with NiChrome 80.

Yeah, man, this NI80 coil the Pioneer came with is legit. It has done really well for me at 15 watts without any build up like my SS round wire usually gets (although I was firing it at 23 watts). I was hesitant to try NI80 and I probably never would have if it wasn’t included so I’m pretty happy. I will probably buy a spool of it. Any recommendations? Thank you for your input, it’s nice to hear other people went through the same headaches as me for some reason haha

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

TemCo Industrial - Resistance Wire - Wire & Cable - Products

 

[Katya]

I also use Nichrome 80 for flavor. Kanthal was the hype back a few years ago. So I bought a .... ton of it. Then I bought some Nichrome back a couple years ago, and haven’t switched since.

Then One Day it Hit Me. CE2's (Like all the Early Stuff) used NiChrome 80. And I was Using Kanthal A1 because that was the new "Hot Ticket" at the time.

So I got a Piece of NiChrome 80 at a B&M and the 1st Build I did with it Tasted Good. Very Good In Fact. A week later I gave ALL my Kanthal away. And haven't used any since.

Today, I use mostly SS in my RDA's. But all my RTA's are built with NiChrome 80.

Iirc, we switched to Kanthal because it was considered a safer (safest?) resistance wire. And because many NiChrome users were complaining about its metallic taste.

I remember many heated discussions on the subject, and @MacTechVpr 's extensive writings on the subject.

Coil under electron microscope

And then there was this thread, after good doctor K. Farsalinos kicked the hornet's nest with his warning about dry burning/overheating our coils.

The end of microcoils?

Just my

 

[Katya]

I cannot see any flavor differences between Kanthal, Nichrome 80 and SS.

I'm with you. But I'm not a super taster and, well, taste is subjective. I'm sticking with Kanthal and SS. FWIW