Metal and Silicate Particles Including Nanoparticles Are Present in Electronic Cigarette Cartomizer Fluid and Aerosol

Status
Not open for further replies.

OptimoMuffin

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 17, 2013
240
240
30
However...

I'm into audio engineering so I do deal with some metric... crap... or whatever you call it.

"The aerosol contained particles >1 µm comprised of tin, silver, iron, nickel, aluminum, and silicate and nanoparticles...."

µm means 10^-6, prefix for micro.

so it means greater than .000001... but since they didnt say >2 that means less than .000002...

That amount doesn't scare me. We probably consume more than that in our food.
 

OptimoMuffin

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 17, 2013
240
240
30
Ok, sorry for the triple post, I'm going to delve into this. Heres the full statement I cut off from above:

(PLEASE READ ABOVE POST FIRST)

Statement 1:

"The aerosol contained particles >1 µm comprised of tin, silver, iron, nickel, aluminum, and silicate and nanoparticles (<100 nm) of tin, chromium and nickel."

a) This was the contents of the AEROSOL, not the e cigarette vapor.... This doesn't cite how much aerosol is in the vapor that I could find meaning even with these insanely small measurements, it could be way smaller depending on how much aerosol is really in the vapor.

b) Again, like above post, µm means 10^-6, prefix for micro, so it means greater than .000001 (units of measurements used)... but since they didnt say >2 µm that means less than .000002 (units of measurement used)'s... That amount doesn't scare me.

c) The tin, chromium and nickel was less than .1 OF A MICROMETER, or the measurement listed above (.000001).... These measurements don't even seem valid because they are so small. And again, we have no clue how diluted these measurements get because they didn't state the aerosol to vapor ratio, or amount, whatever. You get the point.

Statement 2:

"The concentrations of nine of eleven elements in EC aerosol were higher than or equal to the corresponding concentrations in conventional cigarette smoke."

a) These are not the things we are worried about inhaling when we smoke cigarrettes.

b) With respect to what I said above, its funny because although there are more serious things to worry about in cigarrettes, the statement 2 blatantly admits that 19 percent or 3 of those elements are STILL higher in normal cigarrettes EVEN THOUGH they aren't the focus of cigarette worries... What a joke...

I could be completely wrong about this, I'm only 19. But based on what I know, I have enough confidence in myself to say none of that BS scares me with what I've said in mind.
 
Last edited:

OptimoMuffin

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 17, 2013
240
240
30
The title is meant to lead us to think that somehow these things are firing hot enough to vaporize silica and metal. They aren't.

The numbers shown here are paltry. You probably inhale more metal if you ride the metro or use a pencil sharpener.

You seem more educated than me. So would you back me up when I say they are just using science words to scare you?
 

zyglrox

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 28, 2013
143
221
Florida
I didn't look at the study too thoroughly but I did find the pictures of what was tested interesting.

kamir4.png

Anybody ever gut a used carto and have the filler come out looking like that? :blink:

I haven't gutted many, but I've never seen anything like that. Every single one has been white. Kinda looks like they burnt the hell out of. I'm inclined to believe they didn't put juice in them based on this image. That, or they really (and I mean it would have been impossible to inhale and would have tasted awful) burned it. If your filler is coming out like that, then something is very wrong.

Okay, reading more:

All cartomizers had evidence of use before packaging (burn spots on the fibers and electrophoretic movement of fluid in the fibers)
This, if true and widespread (somehow I doubt it,) may just be a real problem. I would really like to know where these cartos came from so I know not to buy them!
 
Last edited:

OptimoMuffin

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 17, 2013
240
240
30
I didn't look at the study too thoroughly but I did find the pictures of what was tested interesting.

kamir4.png

Anybody ever gut a used carto and have the filler come out looking like that? :blink:

I haven't gutted many, but I've never seen anything like that. Every single one has been white.

Lmao that can't even be real....

Even if I have seen discoloration I'd call it DISCOLORATION not a complete staining.

The fishy smell is on a rise.
 

WinstonSmith

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2013
93
357
Ohio
I saw this study online a couple hours ago and was hoping someone would bring it over hear. If anyone in the know could provide a concise summary in layman's terms, that would be great. It seems to focus on metal particulates, but it is the possible burning over other material that has for a long time made me wonder. With certain cartomizers and clearomizers there seems to be a clear taste of something (chemical/mesh/plastic/coil/wick) often burning beyond the juice in the background at least. People refer to the "filler taste of cartos," and clearos have a distinct taste to them as well that seems to be present regardless of the juice type. This has bothered me for some time as I am unsure if I am slowly vaping bits and pieces of components, wicks, and filler material. This study does seem to be rather thorough but I am not sure if it addresses this.
 

OptimoMuffin

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 17, 2013
240
240
30
I saw this study online a couple hours ago and was hoping someone would bring it over hear. If anyone in the know could provide a concise summary in layman's terms, that would be great. It seems to focus on metal particulates, but it is the possible burning over other material that has for a long time made me wonder. With certain cartomizers and clearomizers there seems to be a clear taste of something (chemical/mesh/plastic/coil/wick) often burning beyond the juice in the background at least. People refer to the "filler taste of cartos," and clearos have a distinct taste to them as well that seems to be present regardless of the juice type. This has bothered me for some time as I am unsure if I am slowly vaping bits and pieces of components, wicks, and filler material. This study does seem to be rather thorough but I am not sure if it addresses this.

Read earlier posts. The measurements are way to minuscule, you breathe that amount living normal life.
 

WinstonSmith

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2013
93
357
Ohio
I have a stupid follow up question: When you get a nasty "burnt hit" do ecig components burn? On a clearo does the wick burn, and on a carto does the filler material burn? Do any of the common ecig components reach a heat that causes them to emit fumes? Or do the juices just gunk up and burn off? Or a combination therof? I only ask because most people use their components until they burn them out and was wondering if we are inhaling pices of burnt material in the process.
 

OptimoMuffin

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 17, 2013
240
240
30
I have a stupid follow up question: When you get a nasty "burnt hit" do ecig components burn? On a clearo does the wick burn, and on a carto does the filler material burn? Do any of the common ecig components reach a heat that causes them to emit fumes? Or do the juices just gunk up and burn off? Or a combination therof? I only ask because most people use their components until they burn them out and was wondering if we are inhaling pices of burnt material in the process.

You probably are inhaling burnt material, of what, I don't know. But think about all the burning things you put yourself around on a weekly basis in the normal air. A lot.

And metal takes a lot more to burn than wick material, obviously. I'll let someone answer your question in more depth but think about inhaling a burning wick on occasion while vaping VS burning tobacco leaves covered in nasty chemicals. Which is worse? If you were a smoker previously I wouldn't worry too much about a burning wick, or whatever is burning.
 

Busted knuckles

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 20, 2013
209
148
45
Portland, Oregon.
Well, I didn't read the whole paper, but I read the abstract and The conclusion states:
"The presence of metal and silicate particles in cartomizer aerosol demonstrates the need for improved quality control in EC design and manufacture and studies on how EC aerosol impacts the health of users and bystanders."
Considering their findings, burnt filling and metal particles in the filling, I would have to say they either got really cruddy cartos or they buggered up their cartos, either accidentally through ignorance or on purpose to get the result they wanted.
They do state the need for better quality control. After all most of our equipment is made in china, home of the led painted, mercury infused baby toy!
 

OptimoMuffin

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 17, 2013
240
240
30
Well, I didn't read the whole paper, but I read the abstract and The conclusion states:
"The presence of metal and silicate particles in cartomizer aerosol demonstrates the need for improved quality control in EC design and manufacture and studies on how EC aerosol impacts the health of users and bystanders."
Considering their findings, burnt filling and metal particles in the filling, I would have to say they either got really cruddy cartos or they buggered up their cartos, either accidentally through ignorance or on purpose to get the result they wanted.
They do state the need for better quality control. After all most of our equipment is made in china, home of the led painted, mercury infused baby toy!

I'd recommend reading the whole thing to get a jist of how much BS is involved, but yes I feel like they always choose bottomfeeder cartos...
 

KerryK

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 11, 2012
782
377
Madtown, WI
Well the idiot that smokes a cardo to look like that may well ingest some particulate but it's going to taste like .... and he/she will only do it once.

I mean look at that thing! It's freakin black!

Actually, looking at it another way wouldn't that mean that it's safer? I mean if you can misuse a cardo to look like that and all your exposed to is this almost infinitesimal particulate?
 

Big Screen D

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 5, 2011
2,292
2,830
Georgia
Have no idea whether this "study" has any merit at all, but, I'm not so sure it should be dismissed out of hand.

The heavy metals, chromium in particular IF present in any concentration may be of concern. While impossible to reach the needed temperature to create Hexavalent chromium from an e-liquid cooled coil, I'm not so sure that may not be the case with SS mesh set ups where hot spots/shorts occur. They also found what I presume is solder debris in the filler which is quite believable considering cartos are probably made at work stations covered in solder and wire scraps.

I've recently been an convert to natural wicks. Not out of safety concerns in particular, but rather for the dramatic improvement in vape. And the coils are made in the good ole US of A by yours truly.
 

Vaptor

Super Member
ECF Veteran
May 15, 2012
476
163
sydney
Lmao that can't even be real....

Even if I have seen discoloration I'd call it DISCOLORATION not a complete staining.

The fishy smell is on a rise.




I guess you never opened used a Boge carto. Every one of them is burned inside even has burned holes in the coil wrap. I've been saying for a long time this can't be good for health. Now they've found small particles as well. The smaller particle the worse it is because it can go deep in to a lung and stay there. Off course this depends on how much of this gets inhaled. It might be no more than what's floating around in air we breathe at home or on the street which would be nothing to worry about. If it should be as much as a cigarette that would be pretty bad. We need some solid numbers on that. In any case I think that any serious problems would have shown up by now. Vaping been around long enough for that. Studies like this also must include comparison to other materials people use on daily bases, even foods otherwise the study it's quiet pointless since there are dangerous chemicals even in a potato but not enough to harm anyone.
 
Last edited:

Orobas

Equine Disrespect
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 3, 2012
7,766
6,264
39
Jarhead City
You seem more educated than me. So would you back me up when I say they are just using science words to scare you?

I'm working on becoming a biologist. I can babble happily about molecular characters, common ancestors, and that stuff. It gives me a headache to try and decipher this.

yeah, µg is one millionth of a gram, folks. keep that in mind.

And once again, they're testing the prefilled crap that most of us move beyond within a week.

ETA Furthermore I've never used this site as a reputable source for scientific studies. If it weren't spring break i could ask my instructors if it's worth a crap or if it's a den of pseudo-science
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread