Michigan Legislation
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"If it saves just one re-election campaign fund"....................
Thank you Bill!!
Not surprisingly, this is very confusing (by intent?) to the lay person. 2 bills with just enough difference to get the water good and muddy.
We Michiganderanians need to get out act together, and draw attention to this.
Looks like there's only 6 people from Michigan even participating in the conversation so far. (although Windsor is very close
)
How about you Lurkers - you all raise your hands so we can get a count
Not surprisingly, this is very confusing (by intent?) to the lay person. 2 bills with just enough difference to get the water good and muddy.
We Michiganderanians need to get out act together, and draw attention to this.
Looks like there's only 6 people from Michigan even participating in the conversation so far. (although Windsor is very close
)How about you Lurkers - you all raise your hands so we can get a count
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Just kind of curious but can NRTs be sold to minors? Is there any legislation at all pertaining to them?. How about flavors? If nicotine is the Evil to be considered why not these products as well?
Because they are pharmaceutical products and therefore in a completely different category. Therefore they have already been "vetted" by the FDA.
Because they are pharmaceutical products and therefore in a completely different category. Therefore they have already been "vetted" by the FDA.
Well we don't want to go there but it may turn out that way anyhow. The UK is leaning that way.
My 'take' on the FDA vetted 'drug' angle is that as long as there's no therapeutic claims, the FDA can't touch 'em. Wasn't that the basis of the FDA's loss in Federal courts back in '09 when they banned e-cigs as unapproved medical devices?
Which means as long as the manufacturer's don't make such claims (i.e., smoking cessation tools), they are in the clear(?)
What about retailers - are they also gagged the same way?
Of course we users can extol the power of e-cigs to help quitting all day long!
Because they are pharmaceutical products and therefore in a completely different category. Therefore they have already been "vetted" by the FDA.
Since I never really paid attention to the NRT products before, I really don't know which ones are sold over-the-counter (OTC) now.
But like VapieDan asks, do retailers of the OTC products impose an age requirement, and / or are there legally imposed age restrictions?
With the exception of Chantix (Pill) all the NRTs are over the counter including the patch.
The big scam, of course, is that the lawmakers tax tobacco because they know the addiction is like a permanent income stream. Big tobacco likes it because they're hoping more people don't switch over. Pharmaceutical companies are happy because they make worthless drugs supposed to help people. So you have two of the biggest lobbying groups in the world and unscrupulous lawmakers taking handouts from both sides.
E-cigs offer nothing to either of those groups except maybe the tobacco industry as a peripheral income. There are two chances we have to not be treated like tobacco. One is, the tobacco industry really puts its resources into the fight and goes to the top and we just ride the wave. And the other is for current E-cig organizations to take on a big fight and take it to the top. ANd they'll have to do it in several fights as many will be won in the lower courts, or they can find the one they know they'll lose in the lower courts so hopefully they can end up in front of the SC.
E-cigs offer nothing to either of those groups except maybe the tobacco industry as a peripheral income. There are two chances we have to not be treated like tobacco. One is, the tobacco industry really puts its resources into the fight and goes to the top and we just ride the wave. And the other is for current E-cig organizations to take on a big fight and take it to the top. ANd they'll have to do it in several fights as many will be won in the lower courts, or they can find the one they know they'll lose in the lower courts so hopefully they can end up in front of the SC.
Gasoline is addictive too. We must have that. And guess what! Once again we are taxed for our own good and the environment!
Frankly, I just want to live in a cabin on a mountain.
This is why I avoid politics. I work in a world of logic. Facts are facts.
I've only skimmed the surface... but really, am I missing anyone with a political standpoint against us, that has a factually based case? Most I've heard are simply elaborated opinions supported with bogus facts. I haven't seen a single argument that wasn't already legally cured with the 18+ change.
Thanks!
That's what I thought, but I never remember to check the shelves for NRT stuff when I'm at the stores.
I'm all too familiar :/
It just sucks getting such a blatant reminder of why politics are insane.
We have a multi front war going on. Not including FDA, BT and Pharm you have the Antz and the Politicians. The Antz goal is to put vaping in the same minimal place, ban if possible as smoking regardless of any scientific proof its less harmful. They fear and do not want an alternative to smoking and therefore it becomes acceptable social habit again. That would be a loss to them after all they have done to demonize smoking. Politicians want to classify it as smoking so as to control them as cigarettes, regulate, and tax it to make up lost revenue and even promote personal profit from it if possible. And of course there are just the bandwagon politicians who are just after votes.
I was talking to a person the other day and he was complaining about how people who smoke has cost him lots of money pertaining to medical costs etc and why would we want another item to add to that. I told him when you get all the politicians who spend millions of dollars on pet projects that waste money, send millions of dollars over seas to people who would rather see you hurt, dead and and just assume to stab you you in the back to stop spending that money then you can add me to the list of costs to you. He stopped talking to me.
I was talking to a person the other day and he was complaining about how people who smoke has cost him lots of money pertaining to medical costs etc and why would we want another item to add to that. I told him when you get all the politicians who spend millions of dollars on pet projects that waste money, send millions of dollars over seas to people who would rather see you hurt, dead and and just assume to stab you you in the back to stop spending that money then you can add me to the list of costs to you. He stopped talking to me.
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Now lets talk about government waste and corruption. Our new health care plan is a perfect example. Take a bad system and make it worse. Why is it every government program is always in the hole from the start and the hole gets bigger as time goes on? You certainly can't call it efficiency. Tobacco is big business and anti tobacco is big business. They co-exist nicely and work oh so well together!
E-cigarettes are the new Joker in the deck. No one knows what to do with it so just toss it out.
I've gotta disagree with you on this one. To an extent.
Previously, insurance costs were rising because enrolment was dropping. The less people with insurance the more expensive it becomes. Yes, change sucks, we all know this.... but I believe obamacare was a good move. The more people insure, the lower the premiums should be. The government forcing the hand, yes, it's a move towards centralized health care... but it needed to happen. Too many people had NO options for health coverage.
This is coming from a single home owner, who's worked full time+ all my life(until a recent short term disability) , and have NEVER been able to afford insurance. Un-subsidized premiums (my workplaces never offered anything) were damn near half my annual wages. Literally.
Also keep in mind, due to current disability, I'm in a loophole that means I don't qualify for Obamacare, but am disqualified for everything else at the same time. I'm screwed, but I still think it's a great idea.
Let it be noted. I don't disagree with this. Not one bit! We might as well switch to monopoly money.
Since we are off the gold standard and just keep printing it to cover debt is the US currency not Monopoly money now?
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