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Mighty Men

Discussion in 'Christian Vapers' started by mightymen, Aug 15, 2019.

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  1. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Can’t handle a hour and forty five minute video myself.
    It did amuse me that in the opening credits there is apparently a production company that actually refers to itself as “GOD”.
     
  3. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
    "All things are done according to God's plan and decision; and God chose us to be his own people in union with Christ because of his own purpose, based on what he had decided from the very beginning."
     
  4. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Somewhere between true and partially true depending on how things are defined. It’s hard to know what baggage is attached to which phrases. That stuff changes drastically by sect. There’s probably code in there to say which exact sect is making the statement. No idea which it is though. There are just too many sects.
    Regardless of this statement though, There’s this pesky thing though about a corporation actually taking the name of God. You know the deity not merely worshiped by all types of Christians, but all types of Jews and Muslims as well. Seems kind of presumptive.

    Even Jesus didn’t do that. He actually got pretty annoyed when other people tried to iirc. Then there’s all the stuff in the Old Testament specifically condemning such things.

    Seeing that logo was kind of a jaw hanger for me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
    Joel 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
     
  6. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Well that’s an oddball reply.

    A partial quote from one of the more obscure books of the Old Testament having so far as I can see absolutely zero to do with anything I just said.

    It’s an interesting book though. No one knows who wrote it or when it was written. “Joel” isn’t even an actual person.
    It’s an extremely angry lament about the scattering of the tribes of Israel and a prediction of military retribution. Extremely vague, and violent, it talks mostly about racial genocide, or about a locust plague. Depending on how one wants to interpret it.
    The section you refer to is mostly predictions about how the enemies of the scattered Israelite tribes will be attacked. There is talk of beating plowshares into swords and such.

    Not sure what to do with this. If one looks at the entire section the snippet is drawn from the section talks about the dire consequences predicted for the gentiles (anyone who isn’t a Jew) and how soldiers will coalesce from the depths of the hinterlands and take up arms.
    its more or less a direct violent threat.

    Is that how I am to take this? “Don’t you dare point out the religiously questionable nature of my logo or I’ll kill you” said in a sort of biblical equivalent of Cockney rhyming slang?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
    Joel
     
  8. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
     
  9. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Yeah there’s a lot of scholarship over long periods from a lot of different directions regarding all biblical stuff. Even more for Old Testament than New Testament. That’s definitely one of them.
    Joel is one of the books on which there is the least scholarly agreement. People can’t seem to agree on when it was written or how many different people wrote it or how to divide it up. Popular long standing Jewish doctorine divides Joel into four chapters rather than 3 for one thing. Your citation used the 3 chapter notation rather than Jewish notation.
    Video didn’t seem very Jewish either. I personally like the Jewish version better. (Not worth much I know) it is more similar to 19th to mid 20th century Christian thought. It doesn’t bear a ton of resemblance to the more modern Christian ones though.
     
  10. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
  11. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Yep. Chapter 4 not chapter 3. You quoted 3:9
     
  12. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
    irrelevant.

    Robert Estienne (Robert Stephanus) was the first to number the verses within each chapter, his verse numbers entering printed editions in 1551 (New Testament) and 1571 (Hebrew Bible). The division of the Bible into chapters and verses has received criticism from some traditionalists and modern scholars.
    Chapters and verses of the Bible - Wikipedia
     
  13. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    One I’d have to at least partially agree with. It makes for problems like partial quotes. That’s not the point though. I was using it to derive the original position of your statement.
     
  14. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
    My original position?

    They're those who claim to be doing G-d's will.

    As outlined in Post# 3 and prophesied in post# 5 that is also seen in the New Testament and yet has not come to past.
     
  15. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Heh. Making a fair argument for the usefulness of a number system to sectionalize a document. I was referring by “original” to what could be considered the second point rather than the original one. Post #5.
     
  16. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
    They is one Torah while we have various written Bibles since the first printing that have been revised and printed in many languages over the years. Languages have changed evolved over the years. They're not going to be word for word, not all words translate the same though they do not contradict each other the general flow stays the same. New Testament are ALL founded on the first century Christian writings.
     
  17. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Yep. Translation and repackaging is a serious problem. The Roman Catholic Church was adamantly against translations for a very long time. Islam and Judeasim and some Catholicisms still forbid it. Not sure about the no contradiction and flow thing. There are several instances where words of completely different meaning are inserted. And flow wise one of the biggest changes was the move of the Old Testament from the rear of the book to the front of the book. The Old Testament spent a stupendously long period of time as more or less a reference appendix at the back of combined bibles. The KJD moved it to the front though amongst other changes and it suddenly took on greater and different prominence. This change is relatively speaking very new. In Hebrew scripture the meanings of words have remained extremely static for a very very long (but not infinite) time due to systems put in place to do just that. Translations from Hebrew scripture tend to be a lot more variable.
     
  18. mightymen

    mightymen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2012
    NYC
    Don't see why "Translation and repackaging is a serious problem"!

    I mean if you got a hunger the information it is out they more so today then any other time in history. if we love G-d, we will do our research and if the scriptures are true the promises in them will come to past. as it is written - "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts. unto your children, how much more shall your Father which. is in heaven give good things to them that ask him" in another place it is written. "Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded."

    If the Scriptures/Bible are true then what is written in them is within reach. Seems simple to me! If the provision are in place as the Scriptures/Bible claims they are then they're within reach to all of us.
     
  19. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    it solves some problems while creating others. Like many things. Translated stuff can not be read as closely and myopically as original text. The biggest problems occur when groups take the worst translations, unilaterally declare them “perfect” then attempt extremely close myopic analysis.
    yep. That is the problem that needed to be solved
    and that is the problem that got created. That “ye” is a dead giveaway. English “you” informal. Only one translation has that stuff. The KJB.
    lots of things seem simple. Iirc there’s a quote in the Bible about where the easy path leads
    But you’re not reading the scriptures. You’re reading translations of the scriptures. In pieces.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. r77r7r

    r77r7r ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2011
    Pa,LandOfTaxes
    Debate seems to follow you, MM, lol. Sorry if you had come here to relax and get away from it for a bit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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