mooch on you tube question

[susieqz]

you know, that graph really doesn'tshow much difference.
butnow that i charge only part way. i see a big difference in run time.
why?
where is that blog, please?

 

[Punk In Drublic]

you know, that graph really doesn'tshow much difference.
butnow that i charge only part way. i see a big difference in run time.
why?
where is that blog, please?

What graph does not show much of a difference?

What do you feel partial charging improves?

Link to Mooch’s tests.
List of Battery Tests | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[susieqz]

the graph you posted.
now that i charge to 4.1 i see longer run time
with the 30q.
the graph doesn't explain that.
in fact, it makes no sense.
i didn't notice a difference when i charged fully.
thanks for the site.
i thot blog meant something different from ecf.

 

[gsmit1]

Partially charging isn't going to give you longer run time. Less actually, depending on how much you undercharge them. It MIGHT increase longevity by a bit. The useful lifespan.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

the graph you posted.
now that i charge to 4.1 i see longer run time
with the 30q.
the graph doesn't explain that.
in fact, it makes no sense.
i didn't notice a difference when i charged fully.
thanks for the site.
i thot blog meant something different from ecf.

I do not see how partial charging can improve run time. It may improve longevity which is the life of the battery over a long duration.

Mooch’s graph does not show run time with partial charges.

It displays voltage sag based on the current (amps) that is being drawn. And the discharge rate of that current draw.

Battery voltage is on the y Axis (left) and AmpHours (which is milliamp hours x 1000) are along the x Axis (bottom)

From the Samsung 35E graph I posted, look at the 5 amp plot (red).
Mooch started this measurement at 4.2 volts. But as soon as a 5 amp discharge begins, voltage immediately drops to roughly 3.8 volts. This is referred to as the voltage sag (I called it voltage drop earlier, same thing). Voltage Sag is a result of the batteries internal DC resistance and the amount of current being drawn. In this case lets assume it equals -0.4 volts voltage sag for a 5 amp draw.

Now follow the 5 amp plot to where 3.2 volts crosses it. You now have a AmpHrs measurement. Which in this case is roughly 1.925 AmpHrs or 1925 mAh.

Everything to the right of my big arrow is unused energy. We can not utilize that energy because the device does not allow it. It cuts off at 3.2 volts.


The 30Q measurement was not taken with a 5amp draw. The 10 amp draw equals roughly 2.1 AmpHrs (or 2100 mAh). Given discharge rates reduce when current draw also reduces, then it is safe to say the 30Q would enjoy a much higher run time at 5 amps thus give better performance than the 35E.

If both batteries where discharged at <1amp and down to 2.5 volts, their AmpHrs would more closely represent their mAh rating. BUT we do not vape down to 2.5 volts, so we HAVE to account for our device cut off.

Excuse my poor graphic editing.

 

[susieqz]

than you. punk n gsmit.
i didn't mean that the 30q runs longer at a partial charge.
it doesn't.
it just seems to run longer than the others at a partial charge
even tho the vt6 should.
when i charged to 4.2, i saw no difference in the 3 batteries.

by the way, i have a kit in my lap.
she says to tell you that vapor is nice.
she never liked smoke.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

than you. punk n gsmit.
i didn't mean that the 30q runs longer at a partial charge.
it doesn't.
it just seems to run longer than the others at a partial charge
even tho the vt6 should.
when i charged to 4.2, i saw no difference in the 3 batteries.

by the way, i have a kit in my lap.
she says to tell you that vapor is nice.
she never liked smoke.

Gotcha – that I cannot confirm nor do I have an explanation for. Open to the possibilities that there is a variance between your VTC6 and the ones Mooch used for his shoot out. There is also a VTC6A model, and keep in mind that Sony sold off part of it’s battery division to Murata, which may also have accounted for slight variances.

 

[Baditude]

Video by Mooch comparing the three 3000mah batteries from 2 years ago. Not much difference between the three.

 

[sonicbomb]

Watt Hours is the value you should be looking at.

 

[dripster]

Bottom Line
This battery has a very high 3500mAh capacity rating but even at just 5A its run time down to 3.2V is a lot shorter than the 3300mAh Panasonic NCR18650GA. Its high internal resistance causes a lot of voltage sag which triggers a regulated mod's weak battery alert sooner than batteries like the NCR19650GA and MJ1.
(Emphasis in red is mine.)
From:
Samsung 35E 3500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...a so-so 8A battery

Further, this:
Sanyo NCR18650GA 10A 3300mAh 18650 Bench Retest Results...a great 10A battery

Also, this:
@Mooch; Sanyo/Panasonic ncr18650ga or Samsung 30q/LG hg2?

 

[dripster]

I vape at 25-35 watts on a .6-.7 ohm build, however, I always run at a higher amperage than I need for a few reasons.

First, I always like extra protection. Every once in a while, my mod will go up to a higher wattage, probably buttons being pressed while it's in the pocket. So I run a higher amperage first, for an extra safety precaution.

Second, running it at a lower rating doesn't heat up the battery as much. The amperage limit is not a hard limit on the battery, but more of an amperage limit to where it starts getting hot. Since there is no limit as to what a battery can put out, there is a limit that it puts out before it starts getting overheated. Battery companies generally rate the temporary rating and not a sustainable rating. When mooch does HIS testing, he monitors the heat output of the battery, and finds the proper sustainable limit instead of the "pulse" rating.

Lastly, usually higher amp batteries tent to last longer overall. That's just been my experience. 30 amp batteries have lasted me YEARS, whereas a 10 amp battery tends to last only 1.

Just my thoughts.

Not everyone wants to sacrifice some of the performance in exchange for slower battery aging, as batteries are dirt cheap. Moreover, even though nothing is wrong with wanting extra protection, the obvious question remains how much extra protection are you going to get in exchange and how big is the sacrifice so, finally, there's still this to maybe also want to consider, just to put things maybe a little bit back into perspective:

Samsung 35E 3500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...a so-so 8A battery

 

[dripster]

i have some set ups i run at 15 watts.
is the 30q still the best?

The best for what? Even for a single battery regulated mod, you might or might not get a bit more vaping time from the NCR18650GA so, at 15 watts on a dual battery regulated mod, as for the vaping time the NCR18650GA clearly wins.

i'm happy with my 30qs.

That's just because you haven't really been listening to Mooch when it comes to low wattage vaping, have you?

i'm just curious.

I used to be curious too. That is, until I found Mooch and he made everything crystal clear to me in every way.

gsmit, by saying the 15 watt could be subsumed into my 30 watt
category, you seem to agree that a lower watt recommendation would be nice.

 

[susieqz]

thanks, guys.
i do listen to mooch.
i've watched every vid he's put out several times.
unfortunately, i don't understand everything he says.

 

[Baditude]

i do listen to mooch.
i've watched every vid he's put out several times.
unfortunately, i don't understand everything he says.

I don't either. I'm still not clear what info you're seeking.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I don't either. I'm still not clear what info you're seeking.

The original question was why low amp, high mAh batteries are not recommended to low wattage users. Given the OP uses a Samsung 30Q, that is what was used as comparison.

It was demonstrated that even at low current draws, a medium mAh battery with a higher CDR, such as the 30Q, could in fact enjoy a longer run time in comparison to higher mAh batteries - and that further analysis is needed if one wishes to try and improve on run time.