Moving from VW to Mechanical

[NickJ]

Hi Guys,

I am looking for some knowledge/advice!

I've been vaping now for over year on Variable Voltage/Wattage devices. Started on innokin itaste 3, moved to eleaf itstick 30, and most recently I have been using Yihi sx mini 350. (6months). I have a collection of tanks and a couple of RDAs. My current setup is the Zephyrus and I am totalling love it, I got the rba deck set up to 0.7 on 28 gauge kanthal. I look for flavour but also enjoy plumes!

One of things that has always bugged me is that the mods I use where not bought for their aesthetics but purely function but I've come to a point where i just want a simple 18650 sized tube with one fire button and no other tricks. I love the look of mechanical tube mods, I just found the craftsmanship a lot more pleasing and sleek.

However theres a couple of things I just cant get my head round and was hoping someone would lend a hand.

I've been running the yihi in bypass mode to see whether i could hack the whole battery drain etc, but one thing I've noticed I simple cant get enough kick at 4.2v running a 0.7 coil. So ok, using basic knowledge and the steam engine calculator I am having problems visualising a fixed 4.2v system. Ok I can lower the ohms (lower resistance) which in theory gives me more heat but than I have to change the number of wraps, wire gauge etc. So aiming say for 6 wraps which is what works well on the Zephyrus, I cant figure out how I would get the desired vape on a mechanical mod. whatever setup I try with Ohms, Wraps, Coil Gauges, my vape will never be warmer than running on a VW at say 30w at 0.7. In plain english I am looking for a hot vape that is instant rather than pressing the button and sucking for dear life....
I just cant seem to do the maths to figure out what setup I could potentially run on a Mechanical Mod.

I have no idea if anyone here has a clue what the heck I am trying to say... reading back I am not sure I know what I am talking about. But over to you, see if you can dissect what I am trying to say

 

[Romano Cheese]

I did mech mods for a little while and it was fun at first (after using ego's and protanks/evods). I never used RTA's or Sub Tanks on it strictly RDA's @ .3 - .5 ohms and got some nice hot vapes off it. And you won't be getting 4.2v the whole time, that lasts for the first few hits then you are at 3.8v for most of the time and then the power drops to the point of switching batteries a few times a day. Plus there is the locking rings and battery rattle adjustments, (nothing like setting ur mech mod down on the desk and hearing hissing and realizing it is firing from it's own weight because it wasn't locked - or pocket for that matter). Looking back they were a better vape than my ego but far more of a pain in the ..... Now days, my mech mods are dust collectors. I much prefer a dual 18650 regulated mod that I can vape on all day without swapping batteries. Not trying to discourage you from them but that's my advice on them from my experience, I would stick with the sx mini.

 

[Wolfenstark]

Im currently using a mech and dripping atomisers.
Im good at 0.25 - 0.5Ω taking the battery down to 3.5v.
Though I do have a custom reg mod on order as I do like the extra power for some builds I want to use.

 

[edyle]

Hi Guys,

I am looking for some knowledge/advice!

I've been vaping now for over year on Variable Voltage/Wattage devices. Started on innokin itaste 3, moved to eleaf itstick 30, and most recently I have been using Yihi sx mini 350. (6months). I have a collection of tanks and a couple of RDAs. My current setup is the Zephyrus and I am totalling love it, I got the rba deck set up to 0.7 on 28 gauge kanthal. I look for flavour but also enjoy plumes!

One of things that has always bugged me is that the mods I use where not bought for their aesthetics but purely function but I've come to a point where i just want a simple 18650 sized tube with one fire button and no other tricks. I love the look of mechanical tube mods, I just found the craftsmanship a lot more pleasing and sleek.

However theres a couple of things I just cant get my head round and was hoping someone would lend a hand.

I've been running the yihi in bypass mode to see whether i could hack the whole battery drain etc, but one thing I've noticed I simple cant get enough kick at 4.2v running a 0.7 coil. So ok, using basic knowledge and the steam engine calculator I am having problems visualising a fixed 4.2v system. Ok I can lower the ohms (lower resistance) which in theory gives me more heat but than I have to change the number of wraps, wire gauge etc. So aiming say for 6 wraps which is what works well on the Zephyrus, I cant figure out how I would get the desired vape on a mechanical mod. whatever setup I try with Ohms, Wraps, Coil Gauges, my vape will never be warmer than running on a VW at say 30w at 0.7. In plain english I am looking for a hot vape that is instant rather than pressing the button and sucking for dear life....
I just cant seem to do the maths to figure out what setup I could potentially run on a Mechanical Mod.

I have no idea if anyone here has a clue what the heck I am trying to say... reading back I am not sure I know what I am talking about. But over to you, see if you can dissect what I am trying to say

My best guess is maybe when you use the steam engine calculator you need to look over on the right where the flame indicator is; it is green at around 200mW/mm2.

What wire are you using? 26 gauge kanthal?

 

[DangVape]

I'm still a newb but has only been using mechanical. So I would guess you need first is go the the ohm law section of steam-engine lock the power to 30 watts. To get 30 watt you need a 0.46 ohm at 3.7 volt.

Since the voltage drop from 4.2 to ~3.5 during the battery discharge you get progressively less voltage as you vape. With mechanical you cannot change that.

Now go to the coil build and set the ohm to 0.5 or 0.45 or you can tried various setup as you learn how it behave with your setup.

Try to find a coil build that get the proper ohm.

Also you need genuine battery with plenty of amp headroom that mean the rated continuous amp discharge mush be higher that the amp value that steam-engine give you in the ohm law. It's safer to find a battery that has been well tested by other people to be sure the actual amp capacity is real.

With a mechanical you don't have any short protection. It is VERY IMPORTANT to test your build on an ohm meter before the first firering of the new build into a mechanical. Retest if you have to move or touch the coil or when rewicking to be safe.

 

[suprtrkr]

Hi, and welcome to the board. You've come to the right place for your answers. The most important thing about mechs is safety. There are strict limits as to just how many amps you can get out of a battery without destroying it (and maybe yourself) into the bargain. It is *very* important to live within safe limits of this. That said, the biggest difference between mechs and regulated mods is regulated mods are far more flexible in terms of what is achievable on the vape. Given your battery voltage is semi fixed between 4.2-ish volts at full charge down to about 3.5 or so when the vape gets so weak you need a new battery, the coil resistance is the only thing you can change to adjust wattage. Bear in mind the vape will not remain at a same output throughout the battery's charge. It will be strongest (most watts) at full charge and weaken with each puff until it gets so thin you want a new battery. Simply put, you're not going to get 30 watts on a .7 Ohm coil in a one-battery tube mod. The best you'll see is 25 watts at full charge, and down to about 17.5 watts at 3.5 volts. Thirty watts requires a coil of .588 Ohms, according to the handy dandy Ohm's Law Calculator. It also loads your battery to 7.14 amps at 4.2 volts, a factor well within safe ranges for a good quality 20 amp battery like a Samsung 25R or a Sony VTC4. Allowing a 50% safety margin on a 20 amp battery, a 10 amp load results from a .42 Ohm coil, developing 42 watts, at 4.2 volts. That same coil will be making 29+ watts and drawing 8+ amps at 3.5 volts. This is what I meant about mechs not being as flexible as regulated mods. Those rules are iron bound, you can not change them. Regulated mods do this by the capability of applying different voltages to whatever coil you build to deliver your set watts regardless of battery voltage. This is not an option for mechs. Voltage is fixed at whatever the battery is delivering at the particular charge state. And that all means you can not limit yourself to a .7 Ohm coil to adjust your vape. Getting the watts you want-- the size vape you like-- may well mean the vape will be hotter than you like, or might burn your favorite juice.

Don't get me wrong: I have many mechs, and I love them. They're fun and it's a challenge to get a good vape from them. But unquestionably you can get far wider choices from a regulated mod.

 

[vapo jam]

my one piece of advice (caution, maybe?) - you WILL have to fiddle. i do agree completely with everything stated above about calculations and safety, but there is definitely quite a bit of fiddling involved in getting a build that performs the way you like on a mech.

that being said, once you have a build that you like, it's easy to get it to work. i used (roughly) the same build on my russian for over a year, never got burnt hits or felt dissatisfied. just don't expect it to be as easy to find the sweet spot as on a vw device.

 

[NickJ]

Guys massive thanks! Definitely been given some food for thought.
I've just purchased a cheapish mod, ( a clone) going to check it out, fiddle with it (taking into consideration your safety advise) and see where I get. If I like, than I'll invest in some gear, if not back on ebay it goes! Unless you try, you just do not know!

Once again thanks for your thoughts!


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[DaveSignal]

It depends on the wire gauge:
Dual coil 6-wrap around 2mm ID is usually what i do.
22g : about .15 ohm (safer with dual parallel mech)
24g : about .21 ohm
26g : somehere around .3 (i rarely use 26)

Those are warm dense vapes on a mech.

 

[Hans Wermhat]

I had the same problem with mechs. LONG ramp up time. I started using Nichrome 80 wire. It's a lower resistance coil wire. It takes more wraps at a larger diameter, but heats up a lot faster and saves some battery power. Try plugging all your numbers into steam engine for the 28G Kanthal, then switch the wire type to 24G Nichrome 80 and watch what happens. Like I said, the resistance is MUCH lower and it takes more wire to stay in the safety range, but it heats up a LOT faster and your batteries will last a little longer. I can get a better cloud out of a single 24G N80 coil than a dual 28G KA1 set up.

 

[DaveSignal]

I had the same problem with mechs. LONG ramp up time. I started using Nichrome 80 wire. It's a lower resistance coil wire. It takes more wraps at a larger diameter, but heats up a lot faster and saves some battery power. Try plugging all your numbers into steam engine for the 28G Kanthal, then switch the wire type to 24G Nichrome 80 and watch what happens. Like I said, the resistance is MUCH lower and it takes more wire to stay in the safety range, but it heats up a LOT faster and your batteries will last a little longer. I can get a better cloud out of a single 24G N80 coil than a dual 28G KA1 set up.

you are talking about different gauges of wire though, of course it is drastically different.
But with the same gauge, around 2mm ID, nichrome is going to take about 2 extra wraps to be the same resistance. So you could do it the same and just have a lower resistance, or add 2 wraps to each coil and hit whatever your resistance target is.

 

[Vaslovik]

I went to mechs and gennies three weeks into vaping, and two years later I'm still with them. I can see no reason to ever use anything else. When I push that button there's no ramp up time, it happens right now, and with plenty of vapor and flavor. I build with 26 Temco kanthal on 400 mesh for .7 ohm and that's always worked very well for me. I use nothing but mechs with 18650 batteries, topped with gennies. I vape all day, every day, on 20 amp batteries, which I change out every few hours. 3 or 4 batteries is all I need to get through an 18-20 hour shift. That works for me, but perhaps not for everyone.

It might well be that mechs are not the right solution for you. One thing to consider is voltage drop, some mechs are pretty bad that way, others are really great. I find my new Poldiac is absolutely stellar in that regard, but with mechs in general it's really a mixed bag, especially if you are using clones. I've even had one poorly performing authentic, but it remains possible to get the combination of mech and atty just right. Currently I have what is the very best vape I've ever had from a Poldiac 18650 and a Origin Genesis V2 clone running at .7 ohm and it's still hitting hard with the battery down to 3.5 volts after hours of vaping.

One thing about mechs, aesthetics do NOT equal function. Just cuz it's pretty don't mean it works good.

 

[Hans Wermhat]

you are talking about different gauges of wire though

Yeah. It sounded like OP was hating the ramp up time, so I suggested the 24G N80. It is almost instant fire and it's an easy build to stay in safe ranges. 8 wraps at 3mm dual coils keeps him at around 0.3 ohms and below 15A and makes a great vape. A single coil same size puts him around .55 ohm and is a good vape too.

 

[DaveSignal]

Yeah. It sounded like OP was hating the ramp up time, so I suggested the 24G N80. It is almost instant fire and it's an easy build to stay in safe ranges. 8 wraps at 3mm dual coils keeps him at around 0.3 ohms and below 15A and makes a great vape. A single coil same size puts him around .55 ohm and is a good vape too.

Yeah, I agree. Except I would do the same 8-wrap nichrome coils around 2mm, making the dual build .21 ohm at 20A. I just like it that way, but nothing wrong with .3 either.

ETA: lately though, if I would choose to do a 24g build, I would do it with Kanthal 6 wraps. I may be imagining it, but I have this feeling like the taste is ever so slightly cleaner flavor with the Kanthal. Almost like I can taste an ever so slight hint of nichrome with the N80 build. Its barely there and I can barely notice it, but if I built the same RDA back to back with both wires, I bet I would be able to discern it. Both my Kanthal and Nichrome are Lightning Vapes, so I don't think its the brand...

or it could be that since I have started using 22g kanthal, I seem to think that none of my 24g builds have the same warm flavor with open airflow that I like. This gauge is probably not safe for a beginner, though, as it requires builds significantly lower in resistance.

 

[DergBerg]

Given the Zephyrus can handle quite a bit of power here is what I would suggest for a build with little-no ramp up time:

5/6 wrap 24 gauge micro coils, dual coil configuration.

It's as simple as that! I believe grimm green put this build in his zephyrus on camera when he did the review! This is a very simple, all purpose build for mech mods.

Personally, something just really put me off about running a tank on a mech mod. Mainly because of the drop off in voltage. If I'm vaping a tank, I want consistency in order to avoid gurgling.

Have fun with your new mod!

 

[NickJ]

I had the same problem with mechs. LONG ramp up time. I started using Nichrome 80 wire. It's a lower resistance coil wire. It takes more wraps at a larger diameter, but heats up a lot faster and saves some battery power. Try plugging all your numbers into steam engine for the 28G Kanthal, then switch the wire type to 24G Nichrome 80 and watch what happens. Like I said, the resistance is MUCH lower and it takes more wire to stay in the safety range, but it heats up a LOT faster and your batteries will last a little longer. I can get a better cloud out of a single 24G N80 coil than a dual 28G KA1 set up.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say, will try out your suggestion. Thanks!

 

[NickJ]

Given the Zephyrus can handle quite a bit of power here is what I would suggest for a build with little-no ramp up time:

5/6 wrap 24 gauge micro coils, dual coil configuration.

It's as simple as that! I believe grimm green put this build in his zephyrus on camera when he did the review! This is a very simple, all purpose build for mech mods.

Personally, something just really put me off about running a tank on a mech mod. Mainly because of the drop off in voltage. If I'm vaping a tank, I want consistency in order to avoid gurgling.

Have fun with your new mod!

Will give it a shot! Thanks mate!

 

[Hans Wermhat]

There's no real right answer to your question, just a lot of personal preference. As long as the build is safe for the batteries and you like it, rock on. Try difernt builds, experiment, play with it and find what feels good for you.

 

[DergBerg]

There's no real right answer to your question, just a lot of personal preference. As long as the build is safe for the batteries and you like it, rock on. Try difernt builds, experiment, play with it and find what feels good for you.

The experimentation is the best (sometimes the worst part). Using a single coil with twisted wire, I wasn't too big on it. Then I did a twisted build with 24 gauge in dual coil mode... yeah, it's the only build I do now in my RDA lol.

 

[Hitcat44]

Kanthal 26 ga, 7/6 Wrap, 2.38mm (3/32") I.D. dual Coils on an RDA. Yields right at 0.4 ohm and the Vapor Quantity & Flavor Quality are both Exquisite.
That is my personal Target and "Nirvana" on a Mech Rig. Both single Batt and dual.
Drawing Max of 10.5A at full 4.2V Charge which with a single Samsung 25R is peachy and leaves 48% constant Draw cushion.
No issues hitting it hard all day at work with my single 18650 Panzer Hellfire. Fully charged at start of Day and ready to hit the Nitecore when get home and load the Spare fully charged 25R sitiing on ready in the Charger. Locked & loaded at the ready for tomorrow (if duty calls it and not the Hollowpoint dual 18650 Mech). No issues at all across the board with a dual obviously.

As said above previously in other Posts, That's my Battle Plan. Yours & Others' mileage may vary.