Just be yourself. Even if you have to dust off parts of yourself that aren't acceptable in most social situations. If it's honest and you have the right audience. The magic will happen.
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Musicians check in here. If you play, tell us about it!
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Socially acceptable isn't a term I like to use often. (As long as I'm not being a silly goose). I think I'm just nervous. I don't use any recreational substances to calm myself, (anymore) so the nerves are a bit excited @ the moment. I need to chill and let it happen, and enjoy myself. I think that is key as well, if the crew is having fun, so will the bystanders. Its funny, when It's all about me and I'm going solo, it's easy. But when I have to be the front runner and people are depending on me, the pressure is for surely on. When I'm performing solo Its easy to put all of that nervous energy into my music, but when I have to publicly speak, or play in church, my whole body starts shaking and I feel I have to puke. Evironmental stimuli conditioning will happen, the more I do it. I shant take myself too seriously.
Public speaking and singing are acquired skills. The more you do it, the more confidence you get. I remember my first appearance in front of an audience. I was about 14 and my band played in a talent show in front of several hundred people. There was a spotlight, so I couldn't see past the first row, but I sucked it up, shook a little, and sang my one song.
It wasn't long before it was just a job that I loved more than any other job I've ever had. Playing gets old sometimes, especially when you are loading out equipment at 2:00am in 20 degree weather. Now, there's some exhilaration when you open with the first song and after that it's just fun and hard work. After standing up for 3 or 4 hours, you are glad to get home and crash. I've always been a weekend warrior with a day job. I supplemented my income and lived very well playing music on the side.
All your concerns about what to do on a stage will fade away as you sing and become accustomed to playing. It doesn't take long to fall into the pocket and feel very confident. Practice hard and your confidence will come from the knowledge that you are capable and you have done it over and over again. Most of what you do in a band is the same show for a lot of different audiences. The set list changes, but you will use the same ones over again at different gigs.
It wasn't long before it was just a job that I loved more than any other job I've ever had. Playing gets old sometimes, especially when you are loading out equipment at 2:00am in 20 degree weather. Now, there's some exhilaration when you open with the first song and after that it's just fun and hard work. After standing up for 3 or 4 hours, you are glad to get home and crash. I've always been a weekend warrior with a day job. I supplemented my income and lived very well playing music on the side.
All your concerns about what to do on a stage will fade away as you sing and become accustomed to playing. It doesn't take long to fall into the pocket and feel very confident. Practice hard and your confidence will come from the knowledge that you are capable and you have done it over and over again. Most of what you do in a band is the same show for a lot of different audiences. The set list changes, but you will use the same ones over again at different gigs.
I've done opera and classical voice competitions and performances pretty much my whole life, and that is serious and hard; but it is easier for me to be serious, then it is to be fun and put on an actual show as of this point. I've done open mic night and performed solo, it isn't too bad. I prefer to sing rock than opera/classical anyday. Thank you for the advice, I do have to work hard to aquire the stage presence in the band sense. It's obviously one of the hardest things to do if you take music seriously; will have to work hard at it. I will not be playing guitar in the new band just singin, I will get there though. Lifes too short to not sate that hunger. Thanks, I guess the confidence will come with expierence. Thanks DaveP and the rest I feel better!
Here's my take on it Morgythekilla but it may not address exactly what you're asking. Maybe it does.
I consider myself a survivor. Dave too.
People like to work with people they like. For sure there's a lot of manipulation and adaptation in survival mode but bottom line there has to be trust. Talent without humility only goes so far...depending on the talent. If you don't have humility you'd better be fuggin talented - then prepare to get used for awhile and most likely just fade away...you won't even see it happening, being caught up in your own egotistical fantasy world. (Sunset Strip - film)
As much as a pain in the ... as Babs is, she was a consummate professional from the beginning and has earned her right to be an .... (How's that working out for you Babs?) I guess she's over the hill now but she's still a good case in point. Ricky Lee didn't even survive it.
When music performance and recording comes down to being a business, you've got to respond to it like any other straight job if you want to advance. Looks, ego and charm will only get you through the next month or two of gigs and showcases.
If you're not professional you can never hope to draw professional supporting musicians on speculation unless you pay them. I am one. I know. I've wasted too much time on egotistical but talented flakes and they are nowhere now. I'm still working. I was trained early (Richard Stokes) about what it is to be a professional musician and it has absolutely nothing to do with my musical ability. Ultimately, I think it's about respect for the art itself and what it takes to make the magic happen - on demand. Each and ever time, On Time! Hell or high water, sick, puking, on the rag, ......-off, happy, bummed out, whatever....
You show up with your best game. Music and performance is King. You deliver it. That's it. That's your job whether tonight's audience digs it or not. Try it again the next night and tweak it or not as you see fit as you go along from one performance to the next.
A very successful songwriter friend of mine, Randy Sharp, still carries an application to work at 7-11 in his guitar case after 25+ years just to remind himself of the alternative. He used to look at it every day and then write - anything.
He'd just write because he accepted that as his job as opposed something else and it just worked out. He's got a gift for sure.
Being an artists doesn't just automatically give you license to complain.....unless you don't plan on being successful. If that's the case then have at it...then complaining could become your performance art. I think there may be a market for that too if done properly. Talk to Mac about that. This is where I leave off....
I consider myself a survivor. Dave too.
People like to work with people they like. For sure there's a lot of manipulation and adaptation in survival mode but bottom line there has to be trust. Talent without humility only goes so far...depending on the talent. If you don't have humility you'd better be fuggin talented - then prepare to get used for awhile and most likely just fade away...you won't even see it happening, being caught up in your own egotistical fantasy world. (Sunset Strip - film)
As much as a pain in the ... as Babs is, she was a consummate professional from the beginning and has earned her right to be an .... (How's that working out for you Babs?) I guess she's over the hill now but she's still a good case in point. Ricky Lee didn't even survive it.
When music performance and recording comes down to being a business, you've got to respond to it like any other straight job if you want to advance. Looks, ego and charm will only get you through the next month or two of gigs and showcases.
If you're not professional you can never hope to draw professional supporting musicians on speculation unless you pay them. I am one. I know. I've wasted too much time on egotistical but talented flakes and they are nowhere now. I'm still working. I was trained early (Richard Stokes) about what it is to be a professional musician and it has absolutely nothing to do with my musical ability. Ultimately, I think it's about respect for the art itself and what it takes to make the magic happen - on demand. Each and ever time, On Time! Hell or high water, sick, puking, on the rag, ......-off, happy, bummed out, whatever....
You show up with your best game. Music and performance is King. You deliver it. That's it. That's your job whether tonight's audience digs it or not. Try it again the next night and tweak it or not as you see fit as you go along from one performance to the next.
A very successful songwriter friend of mine, Randy Sharp, still carries an application to work at 7-11 in his guitar case after 25+ years just to remind himself of the alternative. He used to look at it every day and then write - anything.
He'd just write because he accepted that as his job as opposed something else and it just worked out. He's got a gift for sure.
Being an artists doesn't just automatically give you license to complain.....unless you don't plan on being successful. If that's the case then have at it...then complaining could become your performance art. I think there may be a market for that too if done properly. Talk to Mac about that. This is where I leave off....
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I don't complain, I stick to my word, I have respect for others, to my job-I show up... even with the flu. So if your talking about professionalism in general and a respect for the survivor musicians... that is already there for me. I don't shove me ego up other's asses, if I dont like someone I am the one to move on, why make anything harder then it needs to be. The people who are in my life, work, school and fun, I CHOOSE for them to be there. I will not stick around, in a band, If I feel we are not totally respectful and awesome to each other. I think what youv'e said is a given to all professional jobs, but good to keep in mind none the less.
Thanks for getting it Morgy. It was kind of a rant. Really not much to do with you exactly but I was talking to you. Not at you. I was just doing my "old man" thing.
Yeah. Stick to your word. Good call.
Yeah. Stick to your word. Good call.
I miss your 'old man thing', Bass
LOL. Groovy, man.
You know who's the #1 professional on my radar right now?
Lady Gaga. Check out her bio with early performance videos on the Youtubes.
I'm sure everybody has already. I'm just now catching on.
That's survival, true to your word, hard work and the ultimate victory.
Oh...did I forget to mention "fortunate break"?
That's the other thing. When somebody tosses you a ball like that you'd better not have your hands in your pockets.
Be professional always, even when in party mode.
Did I mention quit complaining? I did?
Choosing the life of an artist...sucks. Deal with it.
I'm still trying to deal with it. It gets a little weirder when you get older.
Am I an adult now? No?
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BTW
I mentioned Richard Stokes earlier as my mentor in musicianship and professionalism:
Richard Don Stokes
I mentioned Richard Stokes earlier as my mentor in musicianship and professionalism:
Richard Don Stokes
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Bassnut, you are right on point with all the comments you made. Being in bands since the 60s, I've seen the gamut of talent, showoffs, people who take advantage, and people who just love music enough to be real about it and continue on. The latter group are the ones who are still playing after all those years. I'm going Saturday night to a contemporary church service in the next city over where that sort of group of musicians now does christian rock. One of the members is Mike Causey, formerly of Stillwater (the guy who did the talkbox vocals on Mindbender). Stillwater is said to be the band represented in the film, "Almost Famous".
A good band needs, as you said, to be reliable, well rehearsed, and dedicated to the music and the health of the relationships among the members. No one can be the star unless they have the contract and hire musicians as sidemen. If it's a band with equal stake in the outcome, then it has to be a democracy. A singer who treats the rest like hired help will eventually be looking for a new band.
Alcohol and drugs are the death of a good band. It's fine to have a drink here and there, but you have to keep it in check. I've been in a couple of bands where the lead singer was sometimes squinty eyed and slurring by the last set. That just doesn't work and creates bad feelings in the band. Be a professional and control anything that affects your performance. People are paying for good music, not some drunk screwing up the song.
Band members need to build relationships based on respect and an ability to talk out issues without personalities taking over the conversation. Some semblance of humility has to be there. Treat your band members like brothers and sisters (without the sibling rivalry).
A good band needs, as you said, to be reliable, well rehearsed, and dedicated to the music and the health of the relationships among the members. No one can be the star unless they have the contract and hire musicians as sidemen. If it's a band with equal stake in the outcome, then it has to be a democracy. A singer who treats the rest like hired help will eventually be looking for a new band.
Alcohol and drugs are the death of a good band. It's fine to have a drink here and there, but you have to keep it in check. I've been in a couple of bands where the lead singer was sometimes squinty eyed and slurring by the last set. That just doesn't work and creates bad feelings in the band. Be a professional and control anything that affects your performance. People are paying for good music, not some drunk screwing up the song.
Band members need to build relationships based on respect and an ability to talk out issues without personalities taking over the conversation. Some semblance of humility has to be there. Treat your band members like brothers and sisters (without the sibling rivalry).
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Try telling that to my drummer. We have to twist his arm to get him to play out.
Some people are showoffs when they have an instrument or microphone in their hand, but are not able to fully express themselves in a conversation, so they get labeled as introverts in "real" life. Watch out when they finally overcome stage fright, though. Extroverted individuals just take to the stage like ducks to water. Those we call natural performers (if they have talent).
I agree that most musicians enjoy the attention. The ones who can control the attention are confident in themselves and their abilities. The ones who have to constantly have the focus just may be inwardly lacking in confidence and have to have constant reassurance. musicians who are both talented and in control of their showoff urges are a rare breed.
I agree that most musicians enjoy the attention. The ones who can control the attention are confident in themselves and their abilities. The ones who have to constantly have the focus just may be inwardly lacking in confidence and have to have constant reassurance. musicians who are both talented and in control of their showoff urges are a rare breed.
He just doesn't like lugging the equipment around.. (or so he says)
He will do gigs. He is quicker to do them if we are getting paid. (that doesn't happen often) His exact words I believe were. "If it were up to me we would just practice and record."
He will do gigs. He is quicker to do them if we are getting paid. (that doesn't happen often) His exact words I believe were. "If it were up to me we would just practice and record."
New here, just found this thread.
I originally found this site through talkbass, where I'm a regular member. I had been considering vaping for some time, and saw the "who vapes" (or whatever the original title was) thread there.
Anyway, I played bass locally several years ago, from about 1983 - 1996/7. (My last paying gig was New Years Eve, 96/7)
Moved to Ontario for work in the sheet metal trade, but that didn't pan out, and ended up in building maintenance. This chucked my playing time out the window, as I didn't have the time to dedicate to a band. I jammed a couple of times with other employees, but never got serious, due to the transient nature of the business. After working around southern ON for about 11 years, I got downsized out of my position, and my wife and I decided to come back home. We packed up the van with as much as we could carry in and on it, plus our then 2 1/2 year old daughter, and came back to NB. I lugged my bass rig to, around and back from ON all that time, then sold it all here to buy computer parts (and food).
FF a few more years, and we now have a second daughter, now almost 3. I happened to hook up with a former band mate, who lives in the same building as I do, which started me thinking about playing again, even if it was just at home. He called me one day to see if I was interested in jamming with some other people, and I said I would, but to warn them I was rusty, and had no gear. He said they had gear at the house I could use, so off we went. Jam went O.K. and the singer let me borrow an old Squier Bronco to practice at home with. I was also out of smokes, and I had to bum some from my guitar playing bud. This brings me to vaping. (FINALLY!!!
) About the same time, I had a Doctors appt in regards to my extremely high blood pressure. I'm not overweight, or even heavy, and I don't use a lot of salt. She narrowed it down to, what else, smoking. She wanted to put me on champix, but I said no, due to very low income, and my drug coverage does not include stop smoking aids. (I had quit for about a year while in ON, using the patch, but restarted not long before we came back.) I considered the patch again, plus the new puffers they have, but when my brother in law came by one day with an eCig, I started thinking about it. I asked my Dr. about them, but she had no info on eCigs, so couldn't recommend them. On my last visit, she actually brought it up. That was just before I joined here doing research.
Funny how things can work out, even if it takes a while.
Apologies for the long post.
I originally found this site through talkbass, where I'm a regular member. I had been considering vaping for some time, and saw the "who vapes" (or whatever the original title was) thread there.
Anyway, I played bass locally several years ago, from about 1983 - 1996/7. (My last paying gig was New Years Eve, 96/7)
Moved to Ontario for work in the sheet metal trade, but that didn't pan out, and ended up in building maintenance. This chucked my playing time out the window, as I didn't have the time to dedicate to a band. I jammed a couple of times with other employees, but never got serious, due to the transient nature of the business. After working around southern ON for about 11 years, I got downsized out of my position, and my wife and I decided to come back home. We packed up the van with as much as we could carry in and on it, plus our then 2 1/2 year old daughter, and came back to NB. I lugged my bass rig to, around and back from ON all that time, then sold it all here to buy computer parts (and food).
FF a few more years, and we now have a second daughter, now almost 3. I happened to hook up with a former band mate, who lives in the same building as I do, which started me thinking about playing again, even if it was just at home. He called me one day to see if I was interested in jamming with some other people, and I said I would, but to warn them I was rusty, and had no gear. He said they had gear at the house I could use, so off we went. Jam went O.K. and the singer let me borrow an old Squier Bronco to practice at home with. I was also out of smokes, and I had to bum some from my guitar playing bud. This brings me to vaping. (FINALLY!!!
) About the same time, I had a Doctors appt in regards to my extremely high blood pressure. I'm not overweight, or even heavy, and I don't use a lot of salt. She narrowed it down to, what else, smoking. She wanted to put me on champix, but I said no, due to very low income, and my drug coverage does not include stop smoking aids. (I had quit for about a year while in ON, using the patch, but restarted not long before we came back.) I considered the patch again, plus the new puffers they have, but when my brother in law came by one day with an eCig, I started thinking about it. I asked my Dr. about them, but she had no info on eCigs, so couldn't recommend them. On my last visit, she actually brought it up. That was just before I joined here doing research. Funny how things can work out, even if it takes a while.
Apologies for the long post.
Yeah. Lota stuff there. Ayce.
I was going to say that I was no stranger to Talkbass but in point of fact, I am...for quite some time now.
I've found it more interesting here at ECF. The different forums and threads cover a lot for such an odd but diverse internet community. I think you'll find an understanding ear for just about everything you've mentioned (and then some) here although maybe not in this particular thread.
Anyway, welcome Ayce.
As far as life goes and the "being a musician, artist or whatever" aspect of it, as long as you're alive you have the opportunity to re-invent yourself and do what it is you've always wanted to do. Right up until the end.
I was going to say that I was no stranger to Talkbass but in point of fact, I am...for quite some time now.
I've found it more interesting here at ECF. The different forums and threads cover a lot for such an odd but diverse internet community. I think you'll find an understanding ear for just about everything you've mentioned (and then some) here although maybe not in this particular thread.
Anyway, welcome Ayce.
As far as life goes and the "being a musician, artist or whatever" aspect of it, as long as you're alive you have the opportunity to re-invent yourself and do what it is you've always wanted to do. Right up until the end.
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Welcome, Ayce. The long introduction was fine. It gives us some feeling for who you are and what you've done musically and otherwise in your life.
Musicians are widely varied in talent and the ones who find a slot that actually pays the bills are few. Most who do are fortunate to be in the right place at the right time in their lives and connect with other musicians who have someone to promote them or a band member who can do that effectively. The rest do it for fun and a hobby and just enjoy playing.
The vast majority of players who just love playing make it a hobby, like other people hunt, fish, ride motorcycles, or play sports. Even the ones who get a regular gig playing with a band frequently remain in the local market and spend their weekends playing for people want to dance after dinner at a hotel. Still, any money you make supplements your day job and makes life better. If you can play two nights on the weekend and bring home 2, 3, or 4 hundred bucks a week, that's another chunk of change that makes your life better and satisfies your desire to play. Not everyone has a hobby where people will pay you to perform. I spent about 25 years playing that way and was fortunate to join up with a band made up of guys from our teenage years who kept going for a couple of decades after that. Some of them are still playing on weekends traveling around making a few bucks here and there.
My weekend playing paid for a bass boat, a couple of new cars, a place at the lake, and all the gadgets and computers and toys I wanted, but might not have had if it weren't for the music money. It made life a notch better by providing some mad money.
Bassnut is right, there's something on ECF for everyone, regardless of what you do. If there's not, you can start a thread and see who responds and posts. Last count I heard was about 75,000 members.
Musicians are widely varied in talent and the ones who find a slot that actually pays the bills are few. Most who do are fortunate to be in the right place at the right time in their lives and connect with other musicians who have someone to promote them or a band member who can do that effectively. The rest do it for fun and a hobby and just enjoy playing.
The vast majority of players who just love playing make it a hobby, like other people hunt, fish, ride motorcycles, or play sports. Even the ones who get a regular gig playing with a band frequently remain in the local market and spend their weekends playing for people want to dance after dinner at a hotel. Still, any money you make supplements your day job and makes life better. If you can play two nights on the weekend and bring home 2, 3, or 4 hundred bucks a week, that's another chunk of change that makes your life better and satisfies your desire to play. Not everyone has a hobby where people will pay you to perform. I spent about 25 years playing that way and was fortunate to join up with a band made up of guys from our teenage years who kept going for a couple of decades after that. Some of them are still playing on weekends traveling around making a few bucks here and there.
My weekend playing paid for a bass boat, a couple of new cars, a place at the lake, and all the gadgets and computers and toys I wanted, but might not have had if it weren't for the music money. It made life a notch better by providing some mad money.
Bassnut is right, there's something on ECF for everyone, regardless of what you do. If there's not, you can start a thread and see who responds and posts. Last count I heard was about 75,000 members.
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Is everyone too tied up with Thanksgiving and Black Friday shopping to talk about music? The weekend has been busy for me, that's for sure.
I have the weekend off from playing this time. I'm kind of missing playing this morning. I guess it's a good time to work on some scales and build some speed. My right hand double pick speed has slowed lately from lack of practice.
I have the weekend off from playing this time. I'm kind of missing playing this morning. I guess it's a good time to work on some scales and build some speed. My right hand double pick speed has slowed lately from lack of practice.
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