my opinion: heavy users are downfall for the rest

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AndriaD

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OK, so maybe I was a bit on the violent side when i was talking about the news reporters. But they just kind of get on my nerves when they report about our children becoming addicted to cigarettes because of vaping. Especially when I see that look of righteousness in their smug faces as the preach to us all. MAybe we should just smak em across the face instead of forcing them to inhale exhaust fumes. :)

I agree, but they're just tools of the Big Machine, like the FDA... the Big Corporations run just about everything, and apparently think they can run even more of everything, so that finally they have everything and everyone else has nothing. How they think that would be success, I have no idea, since no one would then have anything with which to buy anything from them, but I guess they figure that all the rich Corporation people can buy things from each other, and devil take the masses.

Andria

PS: but I really do agree with you about those puffy-haired bimbos with the big fake grins reading the "news" off a teleprompter. And also those total buttwipes who get in people's faces after a tragedy and ask "How do you feel?" HOW DO YOU THINK THEY FEEL, YOU INSENSITIVE PIG! Really I fully agree with any violence you want to do to any media person.

Andria
 

zapped

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OK, so maybe I was a bit on the violent side when i was talking about the news reporters. But they just kind of get on my nerves when they report about our children becoming addicted to cigarettes because of vaping. Especially when I see that look of righteousness in their smug faces as the preach to us all. MAybe we should just smak em across the face instead of forcing them to inhale exhaust fumes. :)

They have NOTHING to be smug about IMO.

I refuse to even call most of them journalists anymore because that would imply being non-biased and having at least a modicum of journalistic integrity.

They arent journalists, theyre idiots who give real journalists a bad name.
 

Anjaffm

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Look at what we have all become. We should be ashamed of ourselves for turning against one another. I can remember back in the day when someone would post a few pics of a mod that had a superhero painted on it. Or a device that was made out of a pez despenser, and everyone here would comment on how cool it looked.

I can also remember when some of us would go out in public and vape in a store or a bar or some other public place and someone would make a comment and say "You can't smoke in here". and we would explain to them that we are just vaping and not smoking. Then show them out device and most people would end up liking it and say something like "Well that's better than smoking".

Then the news media gets wind of these cool little devices and starts spewing reports on how it's made out of antifreeze and how it's poison. Most recently they reports have been about how it will make every last child in the country become addicted to vaping and alcohol. and even worse it is a gateway to smoking cigarettes.

Once that happened the public started changing their view on vaping, and began to look at it in a more negative light. Once that happened you could see all the good folks that were vaping begin to make rules and govern themselves on the good way and the bad way to vape. Some of us are little extreme with our over politeness with vaping and some of us are a little rude and combative with out vaping habbits. Now we just sit here and ..... at each other about who is right and who is wrong.

I call B.S. on all of it. What we really need to do is take a reporter out on the street and shove his head right in front of a cars exhaust pipe and let him or her inhale on that for a while. Once they are choking and gagging on the exhaust fumes, we can bring them up, sit them down and even buy them a beer. Then pull out our vapes and say. Do you prefer the exhaust fumes, or the vape? We all know that is the real culprit. The stinking news media.

But we sit here and throw stones at each other when the reality of it is that we are all on the same boat. So the need for arguing about something that we all like is a bit ridiculous. Don' you think. Probably the best thing we can do is support each other and sites like ECF and even join CASAA.

OK, so maybe I was a bit on the violent side when i was talking about the news reporters. But they just kind of get on my nerves when they report about our children becoming addicted to cigarettes because of vaping. Especially when I see that look of righteousness in their smug faces as the preach to us all. MAybe we should just smak em across the face instead of forcing them to inhale exhaust fumes. :)

Amen!
Thank you very much for this great summary :thumb:

Coming from a vapers forum in Germany which is very much pro-vaping (hey, it is a vapers forum ;) ) I have been shocked to find repeated threads where vapers blame other vapers for the actions of the anti-tobacco-and-nicotine zealots. Where vapers blame the victims for the actions of the oppressors. This makes no sense whatsoever.

Are we not all in the same boat? Is it not better to stand together?

And I am very happy to see a member who joined this forum in 2009 saying the same thing. And saying it much better than I ever could.

Thank you :thumb:
 

Vaslovik

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I have been shocked to find repeated threads where vapers blame other vapers for the actions of the anti-tobacco-and-nicotine zealots. Where vapers blame the victims for the actions of the oppressors. This makes no sense whatsoever.

Well it makes a lot of sense if you see it for what it is, and it's what fascism is made of.
 

Vaslovik

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I vape in public, in areas where smoking isn't allowed, every day. Mostly in bars or restaurants, but not entirely. Nobody ever complains when I do. But here on ECF, I have to listen to people like you call me a jackass for doing it.

That's because ECF has been infiltrated by those who are not on our side and want to work against us from within. Makes perfect sense really. Get into your enemy's camp and divide him, then conquer him.

Anyone can register and get an account, then start working against us here, doing all they can to divide us. That's what the OP was doing. He's not the only one by a longshot. When you see someone start up a thread like this you ought to have the gut reaction to know what they are really about.
 

Jman8

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What you call hyperbole I call perfect examples I've personally witnessed, to the point the person is asked to cease vaping or worse yet leave the establishment. If you require proof, go look at the Senate debate in New York City to add e-cigs to the clean air act that passed, better yet, here's some pics from that debate.

View attachment 345589View attachment 345590

And the issue here is?????

NYC had already made up their mind at this debate. Feel free to cite news data (from legitimate source) if you dispute this. These were protest type vapers who I think were exercising common sense in face of what is arguably the harshest state to date on vaping.

In the picture here, no one around them has vapor on them, and I'd love to see these images 3 seconds later, 8 seconds later, and 1 minute or longer after the moment of these pics. I predict all such images show no one having vapor 'blown onto them.'

Instead, an image like this is used to show the 'problem' with vaping indoors. I think it shows the opposite and does so in presence of those who might not even be happy if eLiquid is banned from state sales.

To this moment, I think of these people as vaping heroes and not vaping's problem children.

As as I said, common sense. These people opted to make a spectacle of themselves to display their rights in the gallery of the Senate floor. Well those rights got taken away, and e-cigs are now as prohibited from indoor use as a tobacco cigarette in NYC. In fact one of the opposition who testified used this to her favor and got up and complained how her eyes were irritated and she couldn't breathe with all the vapor looming in the air.

Just because you personally have never seen such behavior, that does not mean it has not happened, and before you go throwing out allegations, you better have some facts in your corner.

Agreed. I'll wait for you to get the facts on this NYC situation back on your side.
 

Jman8

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Pols are the ones passing the laws which are the spur for this discussion. If they weren't passing those laws we wouldn't need this discussion.

Not all pols. Pols in my state sought to exempt eCigs from indoor usage bans (no smoking laws). Why would they do this? Cause they are not easily influenced by our actual opposition, or more accurately, our oppositions propaganda.

What motivates a vaper to conclude that the best way to teach the general public that vaping is not harmful to them is by macho aggression?

Answer to this would be 'something having nothing to do with vaping.'
 

jpargana

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Well it's just my own little opinion, and therefore by no means a provable fact, but I think our biggest problem isn't heavy vapers or cloud chasers, it's the militant anti-smoking nazis who have turned their attacks on vapers and see us doing the same thing as smoking out of their ignorance and compulsive need to control-freak on those around them. I think these people are constantly looking for anything those around them are doing that they can be attacked for, and because they lead such empty and sad lives have to go after anyone they can just to feel alive.


This.


And let's not forget about who is taking advantage of that compulsive need from those little, petty people: the lobbies of BG (is losing PROFITS generated by 'sin taxes'), BT (is losing sales) and BP (is already losing profits from useless NRT's sales, and will lose profits in the future from smoker's treatments sold to BG). This nasty alliance between those three was clear on the new European TPD - a directive that was meant to fight tobacco sales, but instead will help them by getting rid of the first real competition we have seen in decades.

I've heard news about "e-cig bans" in the United States since at least 2009. Back then, there were not many of us (either "polite" or not) to even be noticed. But the e-cig was already perceived by those three as a very real threat, in the future, to tobacco - even with little, "uneffective" 1st generation devices.

Many of the militant anti-smoking nazis, who were speaking on behalf of "health groups" mainly sponsored by BP and demanding such bans, had not even SEEN our devices yet. They did not know what they were talking about, which made it even easier to fool them: "It's smell is disgusting just like tobacco", "Can actually be more dangerous", "No-one knows what's in the vapour", etc, etc, etc... :(
 

jpargana

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Ecigs perform better than NRT, NRT is designed to be mediocre, which drives people back to smoking, who then try to quit again using NRT, which doesn't work, it's a vicious cycle. From an advocates standpoint, big P has as much to lose as big T due to e-cigs success overall. Big T doesnt want to lose its foot hold in the billion dollar market which in turns funds our governments, and Big P doesnt want to lose its customers that Big T provide them...

Tin foil hat time? ;)


"NRT is designed to be mediocre"


This sums it all.

I remember reading some interview from a doctor affiliated to some Portuguese "lung association" (Can't remember the details now).

Of course, being a a "political" doctor, instead of an "health" one, she was attacking the e-cig.

She even told about some Pharma product, released some years ago, that resembled our 1st generation devices. That product was actually being sucessful at keeping people off cigarettes. But, alas, people had a tendency to use them long-term. That was NOT a concern with the useless patches or gums, but with that product, people would "perpetuate the smoking rituals - the 'hand-to-mouth', for example".

From an ideology point of view, that was unacceptable. Doctors DECIDED that people were not "really quitting" with that.

So, the good doctors lobbied to have that product - with a sucess rate much higher that traditional NRT's at what REALLY matters (keeping people AWAY from tobacco) - to be taken off the market. The doctors deemed that product as INNEFECTIVE (!), because "people were not really quitting with it".

If ineffectiveness was REALLY the criteria, then TRADITIONAL NRT's would have been removed long ago! :(
 

Anjaffm

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That's because ECF has been infiltrated by those who are not on our side and want to work against us from within. Makes perfect sense really. Get into your enemy's camp and divide him, then conquer him.

Anyone can register and get an account, then start working against us here, doing all they can to divide us. That's what the OP was doing. He's not the only one by a longshot. When you see someone start up a thread like this you ought to have the gut reaction to know what they are really about.

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately.
I have also seen this spreading of anti-vaping propaganda, repeatedly. Including the "backup" by sleeper accounts. It is always interesting to see such accounts "come out of their little holes" when there is anti-vaping propaganda to be spread, when there is FUD to be spouted, when there are vapers to be attacked, when there are new vapers to be discouraged. In a vapers forum, no less.

optsmk has made a very good posting, above.

Vapers (real vapers, I may add) should stand together, speak out in denfence of our rights - including the right to live a healthier life, in spite of the interests of Big Money and Big Greed - and speak out against the real opposition.

How about it?
 

DarkDays93

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FIFY Loud pipes piss people off, but I digress.

So let me get this straight, OP. You are concerned that your freedom to vape will be curtailed, so your solution to this problem is to propose to do exactly what you are concerned with? You might wanna give that position a little more thought.

”He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.” --Benjamin Franklin

I know it's off-topic but can I just add that no matter how much a biker pays attention, people in cars sometimes don't. If it takes loud pipes for people to realize us, then so be it.
 

GreenHead

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I was shuffling out of the courthouse with a bunch of other jury members after we had just been released, and this tall, skinny kid whips out this brass mech mod, takes a hit and exhales this ginormous cloud of vapor the second he gets outside. I was actually impressed, because I had no idea one of those "vaping pens" could produce a bigger cloud than a regular cigarette, let a alone this huge, obnoxious plume of smoke. I hadn't started vaping yet, and this one of the reasons that peaked my curiosity to start. But all those people walking behind this kid, were engulfed in his vapor and had to wave their hands to swat it away. If they were neutral on ecigs before, I imagine 4 or 5 of them instantly took a negative view towards vaping after that.
 

zanthious

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You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately.
I have also seen this spreading of anti-vaping propaganda, repeatedly. Including the "backup" by sleeper accounts. It is always interesting to see such accounts "come out of their little holes" when there is anti-vaping propaganda to be spread, when there is FUD to be spouted, when there are vapers to be attacked, when there are new vapers to be discouraged. In a vapers forum, no less.

optsmk has made a very good posting, above.

Vapers (real vapers, I may add) should stand together, speak out in denfence of our rights - including the right to live a healthier life, in spite of the interests of Big Money and Big Greed - and speak out against the real opposition.

How about it?


so anyone who doesn't like cloud chasers are Anti's?? People can still Vape and dislike clouds... Saying that people should all stick together because of a belief is how most hate groups start.....

just be yourself and have your own opinions, who wants to be like everyone else?
 

e-pipeman

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so anyone who doesn't like cloud chasers are Anti's?? People can still Vape and dislike clouds... Saying that people should all stick together because of a belief is how most hate groups start.....

just be yourself and have your own opinions, who wants to be like everyone else?

I'm not sure that the two statements you make here are linked in any way. Your second statement seems to be a generalised point about individualism. No problem. However, all vapers should stick together no matter what. There are enough people out there who would like to see vaping banned without us becoming split over something as trivial as vaping style. I do not agree with your point about hate groups. All imho, of course. :)
 

JayQC

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I vape in public, in areas where smoking isn't allowed, every day. Mostly in bars or restaurants, but not entirely. Nobody ever complains when I do. But here on ECF, I have to listen to people like you call me a jackass for doing it.

I'm not breaking any laws. I'm not breaking any rules. I'm not hurting anyone. But you can't understand that vaping is not the same as smoking, so you start ranting and calling names.

You have missed the point entirely, congratulations.

That's okay though.
 

JayQC

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Jman8

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I was actually impressed, because I had no idea one of those "vaping pens" could produce a bigger cloud than a regular cigarette, let a alone this huge, obnoxious plume of smoke. I hadn't started vaping yet, and this one of the reasons that peaked my curiosity to start. But all those people walking behind this kid, were engulfed in his vapor and had to wave their hands to swat it away. If they were neutral on ecigs before, I imagine 4 or 5 of them instantly took a negative view towards vaping after that.

Something here doesn't quite make sense. You (a non-vaper then) were impressed, your curiosity peaked. But those other people instantly took a negative view towards vaping after that?

I'd love to see instant replay on this little scene, to see how long those people were swatting away vapor that likely disappeared before their hands swatted back and forth two times.
 

GreenHead

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Something here doesn't quite make sense. You (a non-vaper then) were impressed, your curiosity peaked. But those other people instantly took a negative view towards vaping after that?

Actually it makes perfect sense. First of all I was smoker who had been looking into vaping at the time(my sis had already been vaping for a year), but most importantly, I wasn't one of the people that had to sift through this guy's cloud.

I'd love to see instant replay on this little scene, to see how long those people were swatting away vapor that likely disappeared before their hands swatted back and forth two times.


I don't think it matters how many times the people had to swat away the guys vape. The fact that they had to lift their hand at all indicated annoyance.
 
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chellemmm

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I had to stop harassing overweight people, my karma came to get me and I gained about 30 lbs seemingly in the blink of an eye. I finally managed to lose all but about 5 lbs of it, but I've struggled with it ever since. Nowadays I keep my unkind remarks to myself, I don't need any more karmic weight gains. :D But I still get annoyed when someone who's at least 50 lbs overweight whines about their diabetes, and I want so bad to ask them if they've tried losing weight? But somehow I manage to bite my tongue -- THAT kind of karma, I REALLY don't want. But in your position, of someone just gratuitously insulting your healthier choice out of sheer ignorance... I think I'd have responded exactly as you did -- she opened the door, so she should be prepared for whatever comes thru it.

Andria


You do know that many diabetics are thin, right? You do know that many of the drugs prescribed for diabetes causes one to gain weight, right? Did you also know that insulin can cause weight gain?

Maybe we should start blaming people who have "asthma" for smoking in the first place?

Blaming a heavy person for diabetes is kind of like blaming an ugly person for hurting my eyes. Same type of RIDICULOUS, self-serving, OBNOXIOUS, and rude thought pattern.
 
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Myk

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I was shuffling out of the courthouse with a bunch of other jury members after we had just been released, and this tall, skinny kid whips out this brass mech mod, takes a hit and exhales this ginormous cloud of vapor the second he gets outside. I was actually impressed, because I had no idea one of those "vaping pens" could produce a bigger cloud than a regular cigarette, let a alone this huge, obnoxious plume of smoke. I hadn't started vaping yet, and this one of the reasons that peaked my curiosity to start. But all those people walking behind this kid, were engulfed in his vapor and had to wave their hands to swat it away. If they were neutral on ecigs before, I imagine 4 or 5 of them instantly took a negative view towards vaping after that.

Actually it makes perfect sense. First of all I was smoker who had been looking into vaping at the time(my sis had already been vaping for a year), but most importantly, I wasn't one of the people that had to sift through this guy's cloud.




I don't think it matters how many times the people had to swat away the guys vape. The fact that they had to lift their hand at all indicated annoyance.


My sister who has no problem with vaping, actually encourages it has swatted at my minimal vapor in her house. I asked her if it was bothering her and she said no, it was a knee jerk reaction thinking it was smoke.

I let out a pretty good cloud outside at a bonfire that was caught by a breeze. My nephew's sister-in-law ducked. I asked her if it was bothering her. She said no, she thought it was smoke and it was a reflex.

So no, "having" to lift their hand does not necessarily indicate annoyance. It can indicate something people have been conditioned to do. The only way to uncondition them is to expose them.
 
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