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Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

Discussion in 'General E-Liquid Discussion' started by luceblueboy, Jan 27, 2014.

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  1. luceblueboy

    luceblueboy Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 7, 2010
    Ohio
    The journey continues................... Part 1: Natural Tobaccos

    Important Information:
    List of Vendors who use Natural Tobacco - List compiled by billherbst
    (from any of various extraction methods, including cold-process and/or heat-assisted macerated NET, Steam-Distilled (SD), CO2, Alcohol-based, or Tobacco Absolute/Tobacco Extract (TA/TE)

    Revised list, current as of 18th October 2014
    names of vendors are links to the home page of each site
    commonly used thread acronyms follow in parenthesis



    Special Mention as True Pioneers of Macerated NETs
    Want2Vape *
    VapeRite *


    A-Tier
    Goodejuice * (GeJ) – workingman’s house-brewed macerated NETs; dependable, solid, no-nonsense.
    Heather'sHeavenlyVapes * (HHV) – the patisserie of NET vendors; known for sweeter blends with moderate tobacco presence.
    HouseofLiquid * (HoL) – the European heavyweight of in-house macerated NETs.
    MountainOakVapors * (MOV) – six good in-house cold-macerated NETs.
    MyVapeJuice * (MVJ) – 2nd generation macerated cigar and pipe blends; sells both NET juices and extracts. International shipping over $100.
    Naturally-Extracted-Tobacco * (N-E-T, N.E.T., or NET.com) – offers a wide range of macerated NET eliquids and extracts; encountered some start-up problems that caused delays, but well-regarded.
    QuickNicJuice (QnJ) – seven tasty in-house macerated NETs.
    RiverBottomFogSauce (RB) - macerated NET liquids. (available from vapingwatch.com)
    Ethervapes - Increasingly popular vendor that currently offers 13 in-house heat/cold macerated NETs.


    B-Tier
    Mom&PopVaporShop * (M&P) – a selection of TA/TE based liquids (currently working on NETs---as yet unavailable)
    Nicoticket * (Nico or NT) – one macerated NET liquid, H1N1
    Moondrop (Moondrop) – a handful of TA juices
    ThePlumeRoom * (TPR) – six in-house NET blends and a handful of TA blends
    Sweet-Vapes * (SV) – a selection of in-house macerated NETs
    VelvetCloudVapor * (VCV) – five tobacco juices; unique in making/using their own in-house TA
    VelvetVapors * (VV) – 21 TA-based liquids
    WholeCig * (WC) – one NET/WTA (only one on the market)


    C-Tier
    AltCig (AC) – one or two tobaccos that are probably TA/TE-based
    BackwoodsBrew (BWB) – who knows what they use?
    BeeLiquid (Bee) – not well known; a selection of in-house macerated NETs
    CravinVapes (CV) – in-house NETs, but not quite ready for prime time
    HappyEsmoker (HeS)– three tobaccos; perhaps TA-based
    HighbrowVapor (HV) – four tobacco juices, probably out-sourced NETs (one base)
    PrimeVaping (PV) – offers a modest selection of macerated NETs
    TastyVapor * (TV) – offers one in-house macerated NET tobacco (in regular or menthol)
    VermillionRiverEJuice (VR) – a line of spin-offs (Kentucky Blends) from one SD (steam distilled) tobacco extract blend (Kentucky Premium)


    Z-Tier
    TetraVapes (essential-oil-based NETs that no one here liked)
    VirginVapor (VV) – one TA-based juice that misfired badly


    New NET Vendors (too recent for a Tier rating yet)
    DownEastVapes
    Nirvana/TrueLeaf
    Trabuco
    IndigoVapor
    Smug Juice
    Real Extracts, LLC
    Artistry Extracts (Australia)


    Manufacturers
    Both Dekang and Hangsen offer specialty lines of natural tobacco liquids made with their own in-house TA.


    * Ships Internationally

    The Tiers above are based on flavor and quality of juice. They do not reflect customer service or speed of service.


    Ex-NET Vendor (No longer carrying NETs)
    A-Tier - Ahlusion (Ahl or A+) – longstanding A-List Vendor that no longer sells retail NETs online.
    C-Tier - AliceInVapeland (AiV)



    NET
    Natural Extracted Tobacco, or---more correctly---Extracted Natural Tobacco.
    NETs are usually made from macerations of chopped or ground tobacco, meaning suspensions in PG, VG, or a mix of those two base liquids, that are steeped (cold-process) or cooked (heat-assisted), then filtered. Occasionally small amounts of PGA (pure grain alcohol) are added to the suspension/maceration.

    Cold-Process macerations take much longer. The maceration steeps at room temperature from a week or two up to two months before filtering. The flavor extracted from a cold-process maceration is often “softer” and slightly more nuanced.

    Heat-Assisted macerations take only a day or two to make. The suspension/maceration is simmered over low heat for some number of hours, then allowed to cool before being filtered. The flavor produced by heat-assisted extractions tends to be more potent and intense, but may sacrifice some subtlety.

    Other methods for extraction include Steam-Distilled (SD), Alcohol-based, and Carbon Dioxide Gas (CO2).

    NETs produce copious quantities of extract from very small amounts of tobacco. A maceration using 15 grams of natural tobacco (less than a single pack of cigarettes) yields enough extract to make 500-800mls of NET eliquid.


    Tobacco Absolute
    Tobacco Absolute (TA) is a commercial product made by various manufacturers (most famously in Bulgaria) that was used originally in the perfume industry. Natural tobacco is distilled or extracted into an essential oil carried as a suspension in an alcohol base. TA is super-super-concentrated and must be significantly diluted (e.g., 1:100 or more) for use in flavoring eliquids.


    Tobacco Extract
    The commercial product called Tobacco Extract (TE) is the same essential oil of TA suspended in a base of PG rather than alcohol. Usually sold in diluted form, TE is still very concentrated. Used very sparingly and with restraint, TA/TE adds a smoky component to eliquids that is reminiscent of burning tobacco. Using a little more imparts to eliquids a “dirty ash tray” flavor that some vapers (who are usually ex-smokers) actually like. Using too much, however, ruins the flavor of the juice.


    Whole Tobacco Alkaloids
    Whole Tobacco Alkaloids (WTA) are entirely different from NETs, and the two should not be confused or assumed to be connected. NETs are about flavor and mouthfeel; WTA is flavorless. The processes of deriving WTA from tobacco leaves are designed to reproduce in vaping similar physical/psychological effects on the nervous system (in terms of calming and satisfaction) that occur when smoking tobacco. WTA is often considered an aid to smoking cessation for new vapers still struggling to give up tobacco in any of its smoked forms, although some vapers may continue to use WTA liquids even after quitting. By contrast, NET liquids are for vapers who appreciate the taste of authentic tobacco, either unprocessed or cured, as opposed to the artificial "tobacco flavors" produced in eliquids by synthetic, lab-based flavorings. Natural tobacco extracts do not produce significant or even measurable amounts of WTA.
     
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  2. Dusty_D

    Dusty_D Original Guru Senior Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 22, 2010
    Toronto, Canada
    Old thread closed and transition complete to new thread.

    Enjoy the new lightweight thread, folks. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. TexasVet

    TexasVet Super Member ECF Veteran

    I like the 'Part Deux' ... err part :)


    oh. FIRST! ...non-op, non mod :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. UnclePsyko

    UnclePsyko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2013
    PJNY
    Outgrew and shedded the old skin... Now I gotta post so I can keep up with this one!
     
  5. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2009
    GA by way of WV
    What is the smoothest, mild/subtle tobacco flavor with a slight sweetness you have tried? (and NO aftertaste)
     
  6. jefsview

    jefsview Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    May 2, 2013
    Crete, Il
    time to start steeping this one.

    Analog [from GeJ] in a Kayfun/Rocket... first 5 ml depleted... Time to refill.
     
  7. Dusty_D

    Dusty_D Original Guru Senior Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 22, 2010
    Toronto, Canada
    HUNTSMAN.. Heathers Heavenly Vapes!

    That is all!! :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 30, 2011
    All over the place
    He said "NO aftertaste," Dusty! :D :laugh:
     
  9. BuffaloBore

    BuffaloBore Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 11, 2013
    Cale America
    GeJ Wrangler Light pretty well fits that criteria.
     
  10. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 30, 2011
    All over the place
    Nice pick......
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. TheKiwi

    TheKiwi Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oh new home! Hello everyone :) just ordered a butt load of vita Bella and smooth criminal. Should be good to last me through a couple of zombie apocalypses.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Jerms

    Jerms Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 1, 2011
    Fargo
    I like the new thread smell. It'll be even better after we rub our stank all over it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. billherbst

    billherbst Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 21, 2010
    Florence, Oregon
    Whenever someone mentions smooth, mild tobacco, I think Turkish. Among NETs, perhaps Sahara Blend from Ahlusion or Hump Back from QuickNic.
     
  14. erawk

    erawk Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 11, 2011
    Hyde Park, Vermont
    Vurley is soooo friggin good! Top 3 for me. I think i like it more than honey cured. Ive defenitly been vaping it the most out of everything i have from ahlusion (5aros, 7nons)

    Trident v1 compared to v2. I love the performance and the new look of v2. the outer shell and drip tip are smoother and dont pick up grime in the grooves like the old one. The locking ring for air holes is really nice. Problem is... the slots on the negative posts were too shallow and i had to use a hacksaw to make them deeper so i really cant reccomend it; even though its my favorite dripper to date hands down.
     
  15. Big Juicy

    Big Juicy Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 22, 2013
    Placentia, CA
    I love how this thread just kept rolling like nothing ever happened. Man, this thread is a steamtrain. I dare you to go 48 hours without checking it...you might never catch up again.
     
  16. Jerms

    Jerms Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 1, 2011
    Fargo
    It's funny to see you reply, because when I saw "smoothest, mild/subtle tobacco with a slight sweetness", the first thing that came to my mind was.. a few of Bill's brews matches that description and does it better than any vendor I can think of. A big reason being your restrained use of extract percentages which allows even the pipe blends with Cavendish to be sweet without getting too much sugar in there, and less extract naturally makes for a mild/subtle tobacco that is smooth. My guess is your choice of base ingredients adds to the smoothness because they all have a similar smooth feel to them. Like how all of HHV NETs have a silky smoothness to them.

    I agree that Turkish also offers a smooth and mild tobacco experience, since it usually lacks the grassiness of Virginia or the nutty, earthy bark of a Burley. Often Turkish is combined with Virginia, like the two you mentioned. I'm not totally sure if that's the case with Humpback, but if I remember right that one had a little grassiness that made me think so. Sahara Blend is Virginia and Turkish, and while it has a fairly sharp synthetic bite to it, that part smooths out and fits the description of slightly sweet, smooth, and mild; though it does have complexities and such that may make it too lively for someone who wants the tobacco mild and easy.

    Smooth & Mild (TA, not NET) and Smooth Criminal (NET) come to mind, and not just because of the names lol. They are both very smooth, the tobacco leans more towards medium but is still fairly easy going, and have a slight sweetness. But the last request of no aftertaste doesn't fit them, they both have a unique aftertaste but it's quite a good one.
     
  17. Jerms

    Jerms Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 1, 2011
    Fargo
    Vurley is a monster, and it's also to me one of the greatest accomplishments in Ahl's aro line. Sweet Georgia Peach and Vurley have been my fav flavored aros, with Maple Burley having a good chance of being up there after I vape it more. Honey Cured, while very solid, doesn't quite reach those heights for me and the same with Smokin' Cherries.

    This is of course, purely personal preference, none of the aros I've had don't have what it takes to be many other peoples personal favorites.
     
  18. Chinook

    Chinook Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2013
    OR, USA
    What do you folks think about Ahlusion's Caramel Pear Black Tea? Will it be a satisfying interesting layered vape for a NET vaper? Does it have some sweetness to it without the "Sweeten" option?

    In my order feedback e-mail to Ahlusion, I asked if they could customize it by adding some tobacco to it :)
     
  19. rdsok

    rdsok ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 17, 2012
    Norman, Ok
    Here is billherbst's list of NET vendors copied from the first thread... Since the links won't copy because I couldn't use the quote feature... here is the link to the post he worked so hard on as well... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/274904-natural-tobaccos-477.html#post11164051


     
  20. Dusty_D

    Dusty_D Original Guru Senior Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 22, 2010
    Toronto, Canada
    What happened?! :confused:
     
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