Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[Kataphraktos]

I've been following this thread for a while now and am finding I'm enjoying NETs (especially the suggestions here) far more than my other vapes. I'm a little sad because I don't have the variety of NETs in comparison to desert vapes. I had a couple questions regarding them.

I'm loving RBSF's St. James Perish Perique. I love the funk and tobacco but it's a bit mild for me. They say on their website that they've pre-steeped their NETs for 3 weeks. Should I let it steep some more for a more robust taste? Are there any other perique based NETs I can try?

The other question I had was about the home-made NETs that people are raving about. Do any of you sell them officially or is it all through trades?

I have found all RBFS juices benefit from 1-3 weeks of steeping. Dagwood went from almost flavorless to knock-my-socks-off in about a month.

 

[regal55]

I have found all RBFS juices benefit from 1-3 weeks of steeping. Dagwood went from almost flavorless to knock-my-socks-off in about a month.

I got their Cavendish before it made the webpage and it has improved dramatically by steeping 3 weeks.

I wish I had kept their St Parish perique now

 

[regal55]

Power survey.

I'm finding my homemade nets and Cavendish nets in general perform best at low power, I'm talking 8 watts. Anyone else experience this?

 

[MikeNice81]

Power survey.

I'm finding my homemade nets and Cavendish nets in general perform best at low power, I'm talking 8 watts. Anyone else experience this?

I usually keep nets between 7 watts and 8.5 watts. I've found that pipe nets usually tolerate the higher end of the spectrum better than cigar extracts.

 

[Jerms]

I loaded up Dust's home-brew, Royal Cajun, in a KGD wicked dripper last night to compare the flavor to the rayon. I'm getting a lot more mileage this time with the KDG than I did the first time, so the NET isn't as gunky as I first thought. Not sure why it gunked up so fast the first time; not shaking the bottle well, condition of coil, or some other factor.

So retracting the report of the gunkiness of Dust's home-brew, sorry Dust! Also not sure if the rayon is that much cleaner on coils than the KGD. Back to my normal state, which is, what the hell do I know anyways?

 

[Jerms]

Power survey.

I'm finding my homemade nets and Cavendish nets in general perform best at low power, I'm talking 8 watts. Anyone else experience this?

8 watts results in very different output depending on the device someone's using. With old school dripping atomizers and cartos, 8 watts was considered the upper end of the spectrum. With newer devices, especially rebuildables and using thicker wire, 8 watts is often a much cooler vape. Using 28ga Kanthal micro coil in a dripper, 8 watts is way to little heat for a satisfying vape for me, but with a regular atty or 32ga wire it would be about perfect.

If talking about generally using a lower power (or higher power) for some NETs versus what someone normally uses, that's something many do but I don't. Nearly all my vaping is at 1 ohm on a mech, around 16 watts. Not much different than the heat I got from around 8 watts when I used disposable atties.

 

[jefsview]

I was perusing the Supplier Seasonal Thread for the 4th of July sales, and discovered a new kid on the block. No information about the extraction method used; all bottles are in 30ml PET bottles. Not an exciting menu, but they do describe the tobaccos used in each liquid.

http://www.shop.real-tobacco-extract.com/main.sc

Prices?

 

[y cherry y]

8 watts results in very different output depending on the device someone's using. With old school dripping atomizers and cartos, 8 watts was considered the upper end of the spectrum. With newer devices, especially rebuildables and using thicker wire, 8 watts is often a much cooler vape. Using 28ga Kanthal micro coil in a dripper, 8 watts is way to little heat for a satisfying vape for me, but with a regular atty or 32ga wire it would be about perfect.

If talking about generally using a lower power (or higher power) for some NETs versus what someone normally uses, that's something many do but I don't. Nearly all my vaping is at 1 ohm on a mech, around 16 watts. Not much different than the heat I got from around 8 watts when I used disposable atties.

I agree mostly, although even with 510 atties I vape most NETs at 11-12 watts.

 

[regal55]

I agree mostly, although even with 510 atties I vape most NETs at 11-12 watts.

I find I smoke my 70/30 pg/vf hotter than my 50/50.

 

[rdsok]

I find I smoke my 70/30 pg/vf hotter than my 50/50.

You aren't the first and certainly won't be the last... but you did say it so...

The term is vape... not smoke which is when you burn something.... Let's not give the ignorant politicians or media any more ammo by using the wrong terminology. With vapors themselves using the wrong wording... it's no wonder others confuse the two and try to tie it in with tobacco use...

 

[sandman97289]

My wattage usually depends on the pg/vg ratio. Higher the vg more the wattage. I find thinner higher pg juices tend to heat up faster and less wattage.

 

[billherbst]

I loaded up Dust's home-brew, Royal Cajun, in a KGD wicked dripper last night to compare the flavor to the rayon. I'm getting a lot more mileage this time with the KDG than I did the first time, so the NET isn't as gunky as I first thought. Not sure why it gunked up so fast the first time; not shaking the bottle well, condition of coil, or some other factor.

So retracting the report of the gunkiness of Dust's home-brew, sorry Dust! Also not sure if the rayon is that much cleaner on coils than the KGD. Back to my normal state, which is, what the hell do I know anyways?

Ah yes, Jerms, I spend a certain amount of time there myself.

In fairness, my take on this is that we know a great deal about our vaping liquids and equipment, but what we know with certainty---which is to say, grounded in validity and reliability---is limited. Our experiments to compare A with B (whatever they may be, and whether as actual head-to-head testing, as you were doing with rayon wick vs. KGD cotton wick, or informally in the course of things as part of our ongoing ambition to find or create a better vape) are affected by so many uncontrolled/uncontrollable/unknown variables that our results are often more anecdotal than we realize at the time. Of course, that doesn't stop us from posting our conclusions, which are read by others and, on occasion, become part of the accepted wisdom. Sifting through all those presumptions to distinguish what we truly know from what we think we know (but don't) is tricky business and a very slippery slope.

Few, if any, participants on this thread would disagree that natural tobacco extract flavoring is a fundamentally different (and better) vaping experience than synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings. That seems obvious and true. Not that some of us don't love the occasional synthetic tobacco juice (since we do), but overall, NETs are clearly superior to artibaccos in authenticity and satisfying flavor. (Were that not so, this thread would never have survived to its current War and Peace length.) Past that, however, things get murkier. Best extraction method? Fresh or steeped, and how long? Preferred delivery devices? Ideal wattage? Most effective coils and wicks? All the choices and variations through which we hope to bring out the best of our NETs seem to me much less cut-and-dried than we sometimes assume.

All of which is fine, but it does result in the occasional ....-kicking we get from a complex and elusive reality that leaves us scratching our heads, feeling foolish perhaps, and thinking, "what the hell do I know anyways?"

 

[johni]

Ah yes, Jerms, I spend a certain amount of time there myself.

In fairness, my take on this is that we know a great deal about our vaping liquids and equipment, but what we know with certainty---which is to say, grounded in validity and reliability---is limited. Our experiments to compare A with B (whatever they may be, and whether as actual head-to-head testing, as you were doing with rayon wick vs. KGD cotton wick, or informally in the course of things as part of our ongoing ambition to find or create a better vape) are affected by so many uncontrolled/uncontrollable/unknown variables that our results are often more anecdotal than we realize at the time. Of course, that doesn't stop us from posting our conclusions, which are read by others and, on occasion, become part of the accepted wisdom. Sifting through all those presumptions to distinguish what we truly know from what we think we know (but don't) is tricky business and a very slippery slope.

Few, if any, participants on this thread would disagree that natural tobacco extract flavoring is a fundamentally different (and better) vaping experience than synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings. That seems obvious and true. Not that some of us don't love the occasional synthetic tobacco juice (since we do), but overall, NETs are clearly superior to artibaccos in authenticity and satisfying flavor. (Were that not so, this thread would never have survived to its current War and Peace length.) Past that, however, things get murkier. Best extraction method? Fresh or steeped, and how long? Preferred delivery devices? Ideal wattage? Most effective coils and wicks? All the choices and variations through which we hope to bring out the best of our NETs seem to me much less cut-and-dried than we sometimes assume.

All of which is fine, but it does result in the occasional ....-kicking we get from a complex and elusive reality that leaves us scratching our heads, feeling foolish perhaps, and thinking, "what the hell do I know anyways?"

Amen and on point as usual Bill.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I agree mostly, although even with 510 atties I vape most NETs at 11-12 watts.

Same here and same here. Talking about wattage (especially when it's really low or really high) without talking about which delivery delivery you're using is about as meaningful as talking about the wattage you use without talking about the delivery device used!



Seriously though, for the most part (the parts that matter), general-talk about wattage in regards to best flavor/hit -- not cloud blowing discussions -- is more like relative strength than absolute strength: in vaping, the max usable-power generated is inextricably linked to what is managing the power.

 

[Dustmight]

So retracting the report of the gunkiness of Dust's home-brew, sorry Dust! Also not sure if the rayon is that much cleaner on coils than the KGD. Back to my normal state, which is, what the hell do I know anyways?

Thanks for clearing my name Jerms! I read your post and thought, dang, I know it's a darker liquid but it can't be that bad! However at some point it's a lot more about the hardware and how you use it. Just like how I feel there's a certain masochism in vaping straight NETs in clearomizers. To each their own I suppose!

 

[Jerms]

Ah yes, Jerms, I spend a certain amount of time there myself.

In fairness, my take on this is that we know a great deal about our vaping liquids and equipment, but what we know with certainty---which is to say, grounded in validity and reliability---is limited. Our experiments to compare A with B (whatever they may be, and whether as actual head-to-head testing, as you were doing with rayon wick vs. KGD cotton wick, or informally in the course of things as part of our ongoing ambition to find or create a better vape) are affected by so many uncontrolled/uncontrollable/unknown variables that our results are often more anecdotal than we realize at the time. Of course, that doesn't stop us from posting our conclusions, which are read by others and, on occasion, become part of the accepted wisdom. Sifting through all those presumptions to distinguish what we truly know from what we think we know (but don't) is tricky business and a very slippery slope.

Few, if any, participants on this thread would disagree that natural tobacco extract flavoring is a fundamentally different (and better) vaping experience than synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings. That seems obvious and true. Not that some of us don't love the occasional synthetic tobacco juice (since we do), but overall, NETs are clearly superior to artibaccos in authenticity and satisfying flavor. (Were that not so, this thread would never have survived to its current War and Peace length.) Past that, however, things get murkier. Best extraction method? Fresh or steeped, and how long? Preferred delivery devices? Ideal wattage? Most effective coils and wicks? All the choices and variations through which we hope to bring out the best of our NETs seem to me much less cut-and-dried than we sometimes assume.

All of which is fine, but it does result in the occasional ....-kicking we get from a complex and elusive reality that leaves us scratching our heads, feeling foolish perhaps, and thinking, "what the hell do I know anyways?"

Well said Bill. I keep in mind that most of what we talk about is based on experience and not on fact. There's so many variables involved that when I report on my experience, there's a chance my conclusion may be wrong because I'm misreading, misunderstanding, or even forgetting a variable. That's all ok, since we're having discussions on a hobby forum, not writing scientific papers. I try to remember that many of my conclusions are partly or totally incorrect, which means it's a pretty good idea to question myself, keep an open mind, and not let my ego hold on to a belief that evidence reveals is false.

I think there's a mountain of 'fact' about different things with vaping that everyone repeats, myself included, that will turn out to be false. A lot of this stuff can be scientifically proven, it just hasn't been done yet, so in the mean time we make the best guesses available with the info we have. Later we can laugh at how far off we once were.

 

[Jerms]

Same here and same here. Talking about wattage (especially when it's really low or really high) without talking about which delivery delivery you're using is about as meaningful as talking about the wattage you use without talking about the delivery device used!



Seriously though, for the most part (the parts that matter), general-talk about wattage in regards to best flavor/hit -- not cloud blowing discussions -- is more like relative strength than absolute strength: in vaping, the max usable-power generated is inextricably linked to what is managing the power.

Now only that, how hard someone pulls when they vape can effect how high they can go. The amount of airflow effects how hot the coil gets, which is why the guys with the huge airholes can really crank up the power. So someone taking a hard, fast draw on a 510 atty is keeping the coil cooler at higher watts than someone taking a soft, slow draw.

That's an example of something that makes sense in my mind, but may be off base from reality lol. Personal experience and attempted logic being sold as fact.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Now only that, how hard someone pulls when they vape can effect how high they can go. The amount of airflow effects how hot the coil gets, which is why the guys with the huge airholes can really crank up the power. So someone taking a hard, fast draw on a 510 atty is keeping the coil cooler at higher watts than someone taking a soft, slow draw.

That's an example of something that makes sense in my mind, but may be off base from reality lol. Personal experience and attempted logic being sold as fact.

Makes total sense. With equal weight (resistance) slow reps are much more taxing than fast ones. Maybe I am stretching the analogy? LOL

 

[Jerms]

Thanks for clearing my name Jerms! I read your post and thought, dang, I know it's a darker liquid but it can't be that bad! However at some point it's a lot more about the hardware and how you use it. Just like how I feel there's a certain masochism in vaping straight NETs in clearomizers. To each their own I suppose!

Next time I promise to try something twice before reporting that it's gunky. Except for WalkerT, I knew that stuff was gunky by second vape, now that's a fact I can stand behind lol.

Wonder how that WalkerT will do with the rayon. Maybe it'll be good for up to 5 solid pulls. I'm done experimenting though, for at least a few days. Experimenting's fun, until it's no longer fun, then I just want to chillax with what works.

 

[johni]

Informed, well thought out opinions are the golden nuggets of this thread. Uninformed musings and statement of opinions as facts are the dregs.