Need a good non-fruity flavored recipie

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SkrachtKat

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Nov 5, 2013
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Hello all,

I am trying to make my first batch of ejuice. I have not bought any of the equipment as of yet. I have watched many videos on the process though. I am searching for a simple (maybe 1 flavoring type) formula. I think I would prefer a pretty strong throat hit as most every type of pre-made ejuice does not satisfy my throat hit preference, even at 24 nicotine level. My thought is, besides the obvious equipment, I need to purchase 6 oz bottle of vegetable glycerin, 250 ml bottle of propylene glycol, 100 mg/ml of nicotine in a 120 ml bottle and then,of course, the non-fruity flavoring. Any detailed instructions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 

we2rcool

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Throat hit is not due to the nicotine, it is from adding alcohol to the liquid. Here try this if you don't believe me. Add 20% vodka to some unflavored juice. You will get your throat hit. You also get more throat hit if the juice is run hotter.

I have to disagree (underlined above) - and add a warning.

Throat Hit is nothing more than irritation. Nicotine is an irritant. Stronger nicotine levels typically produce stronger irritation which equals stronger Throat Hit. Nicotine from various vendors produces varying levels of irritation/TH.

Yes, burning alcohol increases irritation! We use 2% pure grain alcohol in our base. We experimented with levels of up to 10%...and found we had very intense, negative experiences with it. I warn against playing around with anything more than 2-3% alcohol in an e-juice...unless of course, you really know what you're doing.

We found the best way to easily achieve whatever amount of TH one prefers...in any juice. Here's how:

Start with this (a bottle will last a lifetime): Capsicum HEAT by Flavorwest

Thoroughly mix 5 drops of HEAT into 10ml of VG...and then use that blend at 2% (for starters). There's no taste at all; no need for filtering, no fuss - no muss...just plain ole TH (that you can easily adjust, control & duplicate).
 

HeadInClouds

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Do you like methol? Many menthols can be used to give the sensation you're after.
If not menthol, do you like icy flavors? Koolada can be added instead.
Or you could go with the spiciness of hot cinnamon.
Some tobacco flavors seem harsh (have throat hit) to me, but I'm not a big fan of tobaccos, if that's what you're after.
 

Levitas

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I wouldn't recommend inhaling an extract of any hot pepper. There are plenty enough questionable flavorings in circulation, I would never offer an irritant like Capsicum in an e-liquid. The stuff will burn your eyes, mouth, and even your skin. It can be tolerated in the stomach, in moderate amounts, but look at the environment of the stomach... I don't think the lungs would appreciate a pepper extract, personally.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying I would never recommend it.
 

DetraMental

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As stated above the nicotine gives throat hit as does pg. You have to be careful with how much of either you use. No more than 24-36mg of nicotine is recommended in any juice and these are extremely high. Getting a juice higher in pg can give you a better throat hit but not a great vapor. Try a 60pg/40vg. Start with small sample bottle to see if this will work. If not, try 70pg/30vg.
 

we2rcool

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I wouldn't recommend inhaling an extract of any hot pepper. There are plenty enough questionable flavorings in circulation, I would never offer an irritant like Capsicum in an e-liquid. The stuff will burn your eyes, mouth, and even your skin. It can be tolerated in the stomach, in moderate amounts, but look at the environment of the stomach... I don't think the lungs would appreciate a pepper extract, personally.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying I would never recommend it.

Caution is always a good thing, no doubt about that - for sure and for certain.

From ECX's HEAT page: Capsicum is derived from the American pepper plant

INCORRECT! (and I should have noted it earlier in all my posts :oops:). Capsicum is the genus of a plant. Capsaicin is the 'hot chemical' that's extracted from a pepper in the Capsicum family. So we're talking about inhaling diluted Capsaicin.

Fwiw, we're herbalists - and we make around 40-50 gallons of various 'cayenne tinctures' yearly (as well as taking it internally, using it along with other herbs in a (very diluted) eyewash, and for therapeutic baths) - so we're familiar with the coughing & burning that can come inhaling intensely concentrated fumes - and the temporary burning sensations.

However, capsaicin only gives the 'sensation of burning' - unlike garlic, mustard, ginger, etc., it does not cause actually tissue damage if used in excess. Of course, it can cause redness from the irritation - and those that are allergic to any of the phytochemicals in the natural plant, may develop tiny blisters from prolonged contact.

'No doubt about it ---

Capsicum that's extracted/isolated/purified from a natural plant is a throat/lung irritant which causes TH.

Nicotine that's extracted/isolated/purified from a natural plant is also a throat/lung irritant which causes TH.

Either used 'in excess' or irresponsibly will cause intense coughing & burning.

One used 'in excess' or irresponsibly can cause death.

I don't think the lungs would appreciate a pepper extract, personally
I am sure our lungs don't appreciate either one - or any other 'flavor chemical' that increases irritation (TH). Of all the "chemical irritants" that produce TH, it's my opinion that an isolated/purified extract of capsicum is unlikely to cause any type of damage. But that's just an opinion (based on never hearing of, or experiencing any lasting-negative-issue from inhaling 'cayenne fumes' - and a few 'studies' I surfed through years ago).

So, I says to myself, start Googling 'capsaicin inhalation' and see if you can find any current studies or data. BINGO! Apparently 'capsaicin inhalation' is used in something called "capsaicin cough challenge" in clinical research because it induces cough in a dose-dependent and reproducible manner. (The amount we used/suggested does NOT cause us to cough, or to feel to feel anything different that the common TH we feel from nic).


From here: Safety of capsaicin cough challenge testing

RESULTS:

One hundred twenty-two published studies since 1984 described 4,833 subjects (4,374 adults, 459 children) undergoing capsaicin cough challenge, with no serious adverse events reported. Subjects included healthy volunteers as well as patients with asthma, COPD, pathologic cough, and other respiratory conditions. Minor complaints described in a small fraction of studies consisted mainly of transient throat irritation. Personal communication with the authors of > 90% of the studies confirmed an absence of any serious adverse events. Furthermore, these investigators have performed thousands of additional capsaicin challenge studies not reported in the literature, also without any associated serious adverse events.

CONCLUSIONS:

A review of the 20-year clinical experience has failed to uncover a single serious adverse event associated with capsaicin cough challenge testing in humans. Given the need for better antitussive therapies, capsaicin represents a vital component of future scientific inquiry in the field of cough.

Levitas, even though you may not have intended to 'challenge me' personally, I appreciate the opportunity to check my experiences & opinions against known research. My ego probably wouldn't have been to happy if I would have found dozens of studies that disagreed with my opinion, but I can take anything I can dish out (and besides, being able to replace a wrongful opinion/belief with something 'more right' is always a goodness - no matter how stupidly my ego responds initially).

Of course, "clinical studies" (particularly those funded by the government) are never the be-all-end-all for finding & assessing the Truth of anything. But that's an entirely different post/subject.

If everyone would 'challenge more often' (respectfully of course, as you/others are such good examples of on ECF), we'd all end up learning & solving even more than we already do!

(Btw, 'getting ready to mix up your French Vanilla/Black Honey recipe tonight ...and we haven't even tried the Black Honey 'alone' yet. It sounds terrific! We'll be mixing up a couple of 'singles' of the BHT, too. 'Any suggestion for percentage on the Black Honey as a stand-alone?)
 

we2rcool

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Well, I will say that makes me feel a tad better, thank you. :)

In that challenge, how was the capsaicin inhaled? Powder, nebulized, something else? I'll check it more thoroughly tomorrow, but if you can answer me quicker, that's awesome too :D

The link/info above is a study reviewing 20 years worth of data (from 122 published 'capsaicin cough challenges'). From the individual 'capsaicin cough challenges' I looked at, it appeared they used a standardized extract from capsicum peppers - nebulized. There is a 'synthetic capsaicin' (which is sometimes used in the various "pepper sprays" -that are used for protection-) but I didn't see any mention of that.

It would seem impossible to "inhale a powder" in any type of standardized/repeatable manner ( ::: picturing a lab tech holding powder in hand/cup, trying to get it into the lungs of patient- lol ::: )

Besides, the variance in chemicals/phytochemicals/minerals/etc from plants of the same genus/species is huge...including the SHU rating (Scoville Heat Units) amongst peppers. Habaneros of the same genus/species can range from 100,000 to 350,000 SHU. Growing conditions; fertilizers (or not - chemical or not); and the method of drying -- all combine to create variations in chemical levels. I'd think a standardized extract would be essential in a laboratory setting (for this purpose).
 
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Pickleskunk

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Sep 23, 2013
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What type of non-fruity flavors are you wanting to try? I personally like the fruity ones the best, so I don't have many others. I have FlavorArt cola at 10%. I taste the cola in it, but it's a strange overall taste, but I kind of like it. I also like TFA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, actually I love it, at 10%. But I don't know how those flavors would be with a throat hit. Give more ideas of the flavors you want to try.
 
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