Need help on Clapton Coil Build

[Ishh]

So I recently bought the eleaf iStick TC100w box mod. It has 2 batteries (EACH battery is 2500mAh with 20A continuous). I know there are websites like steam engine to tell me how many wraps I need but I am a newbie. I tried watching YouTube videos and know how to make it but am stuck on the basics. I want to have a dual coil build and it will be on a velocity deck. What gauge kanthal wires will I need? What is the lowest resistance I can go to (any recommended sweet spots)? And how many wraps for each coil? Thanks!

P.S: I will be using variable wattage mode while vaping on this build.

 

[muzichead]

Maybe you should be asking this question in the right thread... Coil Builds

 

[suspectK]

Coil wrapping

 

[Ishh]

Coil wrapping

I specifically just talked about this site in the question above how I need help with it...

 

[Ishh]

Maybe you should be asking this question in the right thread... Coil Builds

I'm sorry. I'm new here. Won't happen again.

THREAD CLOSED

 

[suspectK]

I specifically just talked about this site in the question above how I need help with it...

So sorry, I must have skimmed over that tidbit of information. I'm getting glared at by wife, so I have to do something...

I will come back here and help, if you haven't been by the time I'm free..

So sorry again.

 

[Ishh]

So sorry, I must have skimmed over that tidbit of information. I'm getting glared at by wife, so I have to do something...

I will come back here and help, if you haven't been by the time I'm free..

So sorry again.

No no please take your time. I didn't mean to react that way, I'm sorry. I guess all this coil building is just a tad bit frustrating. I can wait though

 

[suspectK]

Since you're wanting to use kanthal, you won't be in temperature control, so the lowest resistance you can run will be 0.1 Ohm.

I don't run claptons. I love running round, twisted wire put through a hydraulic press. It ends up looking like a chain necklace, allowing for a lot of surface area, but also allowing the coil to cool easier..it takes up a lot of space though.

I found the first post in this reddit forum to be helpful though.
Drippers of Reddit: What's your build, rig, and watts right now? • /r/electronic_cigarette

The original poster is running around 95 watts. I know first hand the velocity can handle that type of wattage, so I would try that build. I would recommend going lower, but I can't stand the velocity around or below 60 Watts...the flavor is just too washed out and almost harsh to me. It's weird that a bottom fed atomizer like the competition kennedy does't provide the same resuslts, because it actually is a lot more open than the velocity..I fell in love with the origen when it came out, so naturally, I am a huge fan of the stumpy these days.

26awg Kanthal seems to be popular as the core, with 32-36awg being on the outside of the coil. Just do a search in that URL for clapton, and you can see the many that are in there rather quickly(cntrl+f). Nichrome also seems very popular as the core wire.

I will recommend annealing your core wire, heating it up with a torch, or attaching the wire without wrapping it to your atomizer and firing it...these produces the same results. Not only will it be easier to wrap the outer wire around, but when you heat up the coils and test fire them, the lubricants and other substances on the wire won't possibly be trapped inside the clapton style wire.

I also recommend trying out a higher/small gauge wire for the outer wire, and 28awg for the core. I don't use builds like that from the ramp up, and more importantly the cool down times. The velocity has a decent size well, so if you have any juice that sits in it, it's going to caramelize after you stop vaping.

Also, you will jump even lower in wire gauges if you don't plan on pushing your mod at its full wattage at all times.

Also also, TRY STAINLESS STEEL 316L!!!! I will never go back to kanthal. SS produces no oxides, and it provides the cleanest vape I've ever experienced...and I've been around the block a few times.

Again, I am so sorry for not fully reading your post... 2.5 year old bouncing around all over me doesn't promote the best attention to details.

I really hope someone that is a clapton expert comes in to help you more directly, because I don't know the members on reddit.

 

[suspectK]

No no please take your time. I didn't mean to react that way, I'm sorry. I guess all this coil building is just a tad bit frustrating. I can wait though

HAHA...No, no...you didn't come off in any way at all. I know your pain... I have issues with keeping my coil legs secure and stable in my velocity, using only the bottom holes. I am going to put a vertical coil in mine, and give that a go. I found the same vapor sensation when I tried horizontal builds in my origens, so hopefully the vertical will remedy that in the same way.

Consider yourself lucky. When I started (TRYING TO...lol)getting into rebuilding, there were only genesis tanks and the nimbus...and maybe a couple of others, like the a-7.. I bought an AGI for my first, and this was just before micro coils came around to the scene. Hot spot central... The AGI is a genesis and the deck comes off to be used only as a dripper. It was such a head ache trying to go the genesis with SS mesh wick route for my first time....but so worth it. I still haven't found hardly anything that compares to a genesis tank(most drippers included).

LOL...when I tried wrapping my first coils, I didn't even use a tool....or the silica or ekowool (cotton hadn't made it's footprint in that world quite yet either). So you can imagine the struggle bus going down the road there. haha.. I really did LOL when I typed that, thinking of that experience.

 

[Tom Forde]

26g N80 or 24g KA1/N80 core, 32g or 34g wrap (N80/KA1, doesn't matter really). If you're not working with a swivel holding the wire tight from the drill to swivel, I recommend cutting about 5' of 32g/34g off the spool & holding it directly against the core wire with your thumb and index finger. Guide it down the core slowly for consistent wrapping.
I do recommend using a swivel at the other end of the core wire though, it helps to keep your core straight & from the wrap slipping and spacing awkwardly.

 

[Ishh]

deleted.

 

[Ishh]

deleted.

 

[Ishh]

Guys I have decided to buy Clapton wire that is premade: Clapton Wire by Youde $6.99 5 Meter Roll

It is Kanthal A1 wire (26 ga as the core and 32 ga on the outside). It will be a dual coil build. How many wraps do I need on each coil to achieve a target resistance of .25 to .3 ohms?

 

[Ishh]

Since you're wanting to use kanthal, you won't be in temperature control, so the lowest resistance you can run will be 0.1 Ohm.

I don't run claptons. I love running round, twisted wire put through a hydraulic press. It ends up looking like a chain necklace, allowing for a lot of surface area, but also allowing the coil to cool easier..it takes up a lot of space though.

I found the first post in this reddit forum to be helpful though.
Drippers of Reddit: What's your build, rig, and watts right now? • /r/electronic_cigarette

The original poster is running around 95 watts. I know first hand the velocity can handle that type of wattage, so I would try that build. I would recommend going lower, but I can't stand the velocity around or below 60 Watts...the flavor is just too washed out and almost harsh to me. It's weird that a bottom fed atomizer like the competition kennedy does't provide the same resuslts, because it actually is a lot more open than the velocity..I fell in love with the origen when it came out, so naturally, I am a huge fan of the stumpy these days.

26awg Kanthal seems to be popular as the core, with 32-36awg being on the outside of the coil. Just do a search in that URL for clapton, and you can see the many that are in there rather quickly(cntrl+f). Nichrome also seems very popular as the core wire.

I will recommend annealing your core wire, heating it up with a torch, or attaching the wire without wrapping it to your atomizer and firing it...these produces the same results. Not only will it be easier to wrap the outer wire around, but when you heat up the coils and test fire them, the lubricants and other substances on the wire won't possibly be trapped inside the clapton style wire.

I also recommend trying out a higher/small gauge wire for the outer wire, and 28awg for the core. I don't use builds like that from the ramp up, and more importantly the cool down times. The velocity has a decent size well, so if you have any juice that sits in it, it's going to caramelize after you stop vaping.

Also, you will jump even lower in wire gauges if you don't plan on pushing your mod at its full wattage at all times.

Also also, TRY STAINLESS STEEL 316L!!!! I will never go back to kanthal. SS produces no oxides, and it provides the cleanest vape I've ever experienced...and I've been around the block a few times.

Again, I am so sorry for not fully reading your post... 2.5 year old bouncing around all over me doesn't promote the best attention to details.

I really hope someone that is a clapton expert comes in to help you more directly, because I don't know the members on reddit.

Please read the message above. Also, since I have two batteries (20A continuous each), I input 40A when using ohm's law right?

 

[suspectK]

Guys I have decided to buy Clapton wire that is premade: Clapton Wire by Youde $6.99 5 Meter Roll

It is Kanthal A1 wire (26 ga as the core and 32 ga on the outside). It will be a dual coil build. How many wraps do I need on each coil to achieve a target resistance of .25 to .3 ohms?

I would think that it would list the resistance per foot or something along those lines...but I bought a little roll of SS from UD to try out, and it doesn't list the resistance with it.

What inner diameter/size tool are you wrapping the coil with?
Wire wizard

Use this... There is a box on the left side in the middle. You select clapton. In the upper left corner, you can input your inner diameter and adjust the number of wraps until you get to around 0.5-0.6 Ohms, which is listed in the top of the table on the bottom left. You will divide that in half when you build a dual coil (parallel resistance 1/R=1/Rx+1/Ry since you are going to have the same resistances, you can just divide by the number of coils..if you didn't, you would need to find the common denominator, and then after you add them together, simplify and find the reciprocal....put the denominator on top. Sorry, I forgot this feature was in that tab of steam engine..not in coil wrapping. I actually posted the wire wizard section when I first replied, and edited immediately after posting..but I guess you were having trouble with the site anyways.

Hope this gets everything figured out for you, but always include what you plan your inner diameter to be when asking for coil resistances. It's one of the most important factors. I typically stay with 2mm ID/Inner Diameter, but I vape around 60 Watts with a temperature control mod.

Please read the message above. Also, since I have two batteries (20A continuous each), I input 40A when using ohm's law right?

NO!...regardless that you didn't clarify whether you are running them in series or parallel.

Series will double the voltage output. Parallel will double the capacity. While parallel batteries will handle loads better, I can not tell you that you will double the actual continuous rating of the battery.

Do you have a multimeter, or ohmmeter? If you had an actual meter with leads, you can just figure out how much wire you need by putting the leads on the wire. It will only measure the resistance of the wire that is between the two leads, as well as the leads themselves.

 

[Ishh]

Use this... There is a box on the left side in the middle. You select clapton. In the upper left corner, you can input your inner diameter and adjust the number of wraps until you get to around 0.5-0.6 Ohms, which is listed in the top of the table on the bottom left. You will divide that in half when you build a dual coil (parallel resistance 1/R=1/Rx+1/Ry since you are going to have the same resistances, you can just divide by the number of coils..if you didn't, you would need to find the common denominator, and then after you add them together, simplify and find the reciprocal....put the denominator on top.

I tried using that site but did not understand as I am using two coils. Why do you have to divide the values by two for the resistance?

Why does the 0.853 ohms needs to be divided by two here to achieve .4265 ohms? Also, I use 3mm wraps. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

Series will double the voltage output. Parallel will double the capacity. While parallel batteries will handle loads better, I can not tell you that you will double the actual continuous rating of the battery.

I wasn't sure whether it was series or parallel. It's the eleaf istick TC100w box mod, but this website says it's parallel. Does this mean when using ohm's law I input 3.7V and 40A (since double the amps on parallel right)?

Do you have a multimeter, or ohmmeter? If you had an actual meter with leads, you can just figure out how much wire you need by putting the leads on the wire. It will only measure the resistance of the wire that is between the two leads, as well as the leads themselves.

I can get one from my school. Sounds good.

Thank you so much for taking your time to write all this and help me!!

 

[suspectK]

When you're running coils in parallel, the resistance is divided in half(since you're going to always going to want the coils to be the same resistance). In series they're added together.

So in a parallel build, if one coil fails, it doesn't affect the circuit, with the exception of an increase in resistance. Think of it like using a larger wire that is half the resistance of the wire you're using. There is an increase in surface area, and both coils are connected to their own positive contact. So the voltage has more directions to travel/more surface area. If you had the same coils in series....which is essentially one coil, with a little straight bit of the wire connecting them, the resistance doubles..since the current has only one direction to go.

I am a NETA technician, so I cringe when I write, "No, it doesn't ever double the continuous rating of the battery," just because I'm on this forum. Most people don't know the full ins-and-outs with battery safety, so I don't ever post things like that on here, but since you're using a regulated mod, yes...you have been correct. Sorry, I should've PM'd you, but after all this talk, you seem to understand that bit of the physics involved...but just in case you don't..

The reason you are able to pull more amps with a parallel battery pack is because you are doubling the capacity of the battery. Batteries typically will have a documented C-rating, unless you're buying them from most vape equipment sites..and you'll typically just get the continuous rating of the battery. When you have the C-rating of the battery, which all vendors SHOULD provide. The way you find the continuous rating of the battery:

C-Rating x mAh(capacity)= Continuous Amp rating.

So you can see as I've posted above, you double the capacity of your batteries while running them in parallel. ALWAYS label your batteries, use the same cells, and also use those same cells brand new and "marry" them. It's not as critical running batteries in parallel, but it's always a good idea..since you don't know what each manufacturer does with their battery monitoring and connections. That way the batteries discharge around the same rate, and after you discharge those batteries and need to charge them, swap them around to different contacts. A label printed on the battery will be the best, but a sharpie works too.

That build sounds good to try out, but you may want to lose a wrap or two. Since it is a clapton build, it will have some considerable ramp/heat up time, especially if you aren't pushing the mod to the limit...and I've read several things on the e-leaf having issues, but I can't seem to remember if that involved charging the batteries(if you can even do that with that mod), or just running the mod at full power..etc...but in this realm of battery usage, it is most often user error that causes the big issues, unfortunately. That is why I stuck with mechanicals, until recently..after all the issues with certain temp mods were made apparent.

No problem helping... as you can see from my long posts, I'm typically bored as hell..don't have my studio set up anymore..

 

[Ishh]

When you're running coils in parallel, the resistance is divided in half(since you're going to always going to want the coils to be the same resistance). In series they're added together.

I input the values for one coil so why do I have to divide the resistance in half if it's only one coil so far? Because if there were two coils with the same resistance how would dividing .853 in half achieve .4265 (since each coil would have .853 ohms of resistance)?

So in a parallel build, if one coil fails, it doesn't affect the circuit, with the exception of an increase in resistance. Think of it like using a larger wire that is half the resistance of the wire you're using. There is an increase in surface area, and both coils are connected to their own positive contact. So the voltage has more directions to travel/more surface area. If you had the same coils in series....which is essentially one coil, with a little straight bit of the wire connecting them, the resistance doubles..since the current has only one direction to go.

This kind of makes sense. I did learn about series/parallel circuits in Principles of Engineering. So in series if one coil fails so does the other since it has to pass through both coils to complete the circuit, but in parallel if one fails then the other coil takes a bigger load (resistance) to keep going? I hope I'm getting this right.

I am a NETA technician, so I cringe when I write, "No, it doesn't ever double the continuous rating of the battery," just because I'm on this forum. Most people don't know the full ins-and-outs with battery safety, so I don't ever post things like that on here, but since you're using a regulated mod, yes...you have been correct.

Okay so I understand that when using Ohm's law I input 3.7V (regardless of having two 3.7V batteries) and I input 40A. However, 40A is the MAX continuous rating for the two batteries combined (20A each). That is what I understand. What would be a safe MAX current in your opinion? Since 40A is the absolute max and I guess I have chance of my mod blowing up if I exceed that. And also what resistance should I use? If 3.7V is the highest I can vape on then I am very confused. Here is a picture below:

The reason you are able to pull more amps with a parallel battery pack is because you are doubling the capacity of the battery. Batteries typically will have a documented C-rating, unless you're buying them from most vape equipment sites..and you'll typically just get the continuous rating of the battery. When you have the C-rating of the battery, which all vendors SHOULD provide. The way you find the continuous rating of the battery:
C-Rating x mAh(capacity)= Continuous Amp rating.

If I am doubling the battery capacity (current, if I am correct) then why won't it double the voltage as well? Here is a link the the batteries I bought: Samsung 25R 18650 2500mAh 20A Flat Top Battery
What does the mAh mean? On the website I saw a 3000mAh battery with 20A continuous, but mine is 25000mAh with 20A continuous. I don't get that since the continuous for both is still 20A.

ALWAYS label your batteries, use the same cells, and also use those same cells brand new and "marry" them. It's not as critical running batteries in parallel, but it's always a good idea..since you don't know what each manufacturer does with their battery monitoring and connections. That way the batteries discharge around the same rate, and after you discharge those batteries and need to charge them, swap them around to different contacts. A label printed on the battery will be the best, but a sharpie works too.

By labeling them what do I write on the batteries? And by switching the contacts around I'm assuming putting the battery that was in the left side to the right and putting the battery from the right side to the left?

That build sounds good to try out, but you may want to lose a wrap or two. Since it is a clapton build, it will have some considerable ramp/heat up time, especially if you aren't pushing the mod to the limit...and I've read several things on the e-leaf having issues, but I can't seem to remember if that involved charging the batteries(if you can even do that with that mod), or just running the mod at full power..etc...but in this realm of battery usage, it is most often user error that causes the big issues, unfortunately. That is why I stuck with mechanicals, until recently..after all the issues with certain temp mods were made apparent.

If I lose two wraps I'll be left with 3 wraps. Isn't 3 wraps really bad for each coil because there will barely be any wraps? The guys on YouTube usually have like 6. However, I don't even know what resistance to use anymore since I am stuck on the whole voltage/amperage thing for ohm's law (listed above). Yeah I can charge the batteries with the mod. I just plug in the bottom micro USB port (it takes a while though). I honestly would rather just go back to variable wattage because I bought this mod just for the fact that it was regulated AND because of temp control (and other factors such as price,$38, and looks and features).

No problem helping... as you can see from my long posts, I'm typically bored as hell..don't have my studio set up anymore..

So basically you're like an electrical engineer? What was the studio for? Holy crap I am such a lost child I ask way too many questions. Vaping is SO much more complicated than I thought it would be

 

[Nuchuga]

My go to clapton is 26g kanthal x 30g nichrome 6. Wrapped around a 3/32 drill bit 6 times ran dual coil on a 510 RDA. Ohms out to .3-.4 and usually run around 60-70 watts. Killer build!

 

[sig-cmt]

24g 316L x 30g Ti1 3.5mm 5/4 wrapped duals around 0.15Ω. 85-100W.