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NEW BATTERY RATING: Vapcell Gold 30A 3100mAh 20700 has changed!

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Jul 10, 2018.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I SCREWED UP!

    In the photos for my recent post about the ratings change for the Vapcell gold 30A 3100mAh 20700 cell I accidentally reversed the old/new cell designations. The cells I said were the ones I previously tested were really the newer, lower rated ones.

    I deeply and sincerely apologize for this!

    Here is the corrected post and the corrected photos. I am very embarrassed by this and will do my damndest to make sure it never happens again. My test results, the new rating, and my upcoming actions have not changed though and I hope to update everyone in a few days after retesting is done.

    I am so sorry for the confusion this has caused.

    CORRECTED POST FOLLOWS:

    I gave this cell an estimated 30A rating when I tested it four months ago and it was a very good performing 20700. When testing some of these for a distributor this past week I noticed that there was a distinct change in performance.

    I am now rating it at 20A-25A with an unknown capacity.

    This is just an estimate for now! This might have to be adjusted after testing more of these cells.

    In my recent testing it ran hotter and at a lower voltage, i.e., it didn’t hit as hard or run for as long as it used to. Its performance was also more inconsistent from cell to cell.

    There are some small changes in the metal can too. The top of the can is now rolled over further and the bottom of the can has a sharper bend.

    40F422D6-44B4-4CBA-8FF3-0DAD123DC52A.jpeg 94D94528-0DCB-4C30-A256-C3EEEAB8FF48.jpeg 6E56DEA6-7608-4CE9-941B-2BEFC7F875C0.jpeg 31ED5CB9-E0D4-4EF4-B9A4-21B6C68BCC00.jpeg

    The physical differences are small but combined with the performance changes it appeared that a different cell was being used for this Vapcell. I immediately contacted Vapcell to find out what was going on.

    They said the factory told them that there will be worse cell-to-cell consistency with China manufactured cells versus ones from Samsung, Sony, LG, etc., and that improved metal cans were now being used and that the cells should run at a lower temperature at high discharge current levels.

    Okay, that all sounds reasonable. But the performance took a big hit in my recent testing, enough to warrant a rating change in my opinion. The cells ran hotter too.

    This inconsistency is not uncommon with the China manufactured cells that wrappers are targeting the vaping market with. But is this large an inconsistency and a big performance change acceptable without a ratings change? Hell no, and I told Vapcell this.


    I feel that Vapcell must immediately develop and implement an in-house testing setup to regularly test samples from the factory. I told them this too. If they don’t, they risk losing the trust of every vaper.

    I will be following up on all this. In the mean time consider this Vapcell to be a 20A-25A cell with a lower (but unknown) capacity rating.

    I hope to have an update later this week after I test more of these cells being sent by a vendor, not Vapcell.

    I will also be putting out a video soon about the new influx of China manufactured cells, the good and the bad. We’re stuck with them and I’m going to have to make some changes to how I rate them. I cannot retest every China cell every couple of months.

    Please do not send me photos of your Vapcells to see which version they are. Carefully unwrap yours and compare them to my photos. If you are unsure, consider all of the Vapcell gold 30A 3100mAh cells to be rated 20A-25A.

    THIS DOES NOT AFFECT THE VAPCELL GOLD 30A 3200MAH CELL!

    THIS DOES NOT AFFECT ANY OTHER CELL.
     
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  2. Frogzx

    Frogzx Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 6, 2013
    USA
    Ordered a couple of these the other day. Luckily Liionwholesale hadn't shipped my order yet and were more than willing to refund it, Vapcell has lost my trust (not that I had a lot of trust in them anyways) and I will probably avoid them going forward.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. JamesDMad

    JamesDMad Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 21, 2018
    Indiana
    Once again, the @Mooch protects what could be a potential problem... Well done Mooch, well done
     
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  4. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hundertwasser
    THIS is why we avoid rewraps if we can.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. hazozita

    hazozita Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 7, 2013
    Virginia
    It’s a frustrating situation but at least Vapcell seems willing to address the issue. They posted the following on their website. Granted, the ‘PROMISE to GOD’ statement seems a bit much – I'd put more faith in a 'SWEAR to MOOCH’ action on their part.

    Statement from Vapcell posted on their FB page (cut and paste, including the spelling errors):

    About VapCell 20700 3100mAh 30A batteries 20-25A, we also checked with factory, and we were told that cell-to-cell consistency with China manufactured cells are not good compare with other cells. We are now discussing how to solve this without any delay.

    Meanwhile we let our other clients send to MOOCH ,and we will send them ramdomly 4 pieces vapcell 20700 3100mAh 30A for testing to judge the stable rating on batteries, then we will do it as mooch suggested rating in these two weeks, and notify to all respected vapers.

    From now on, we will develop and implement an in-house testing setup to regularly test samples from the factory.

    We,Vapcell, PROMISE to GOD that we never change cheaper cell at lower cost than the first batch.

    Another ,in order to show our sincere apologies, anyone who have ordered our vapcell 20700 3100mAh 30A recently, we will give you some discount for reimbursement if you give us another chance in the following cooperation.

    We humbly apologize for any trouble there might have been at this time .
    Please accept our apologies on behalf of all of us from VapCell.

    PS: This state ONLY for vapcell 20700 3100mAh 30A, don’t have impact on any other VapCell batteries.

    VapCell Team
    10th,July,2018
     
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  6. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Vapcell’s post:
     
  7. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I screwed up!
    Please see the original post for more information.
     
  8. Frogzx

    Frogzx Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 6, 2013
    USA
    Noo, shoulda kept my order for them in that case. Oh well, just gotta hope these harvested 20700A's I got instead are legitimate. I look forward to the rest of the tests, hopefully the new cells end up around the same quality as the old ones when you originally tested them!
     
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  9. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I think Liion Wholesale has the 3100mAh Vapcell in stock but confirm which version they have.
     
  10. Frogzx

    Frogzx Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 6, 2013
    USA
    Unfortunately only had enough money for one set of batteries They do have them in stock though i'm pretty sure, cancelled my order so there should at least be a few left if nothing else. I'll try and nab a couple next time I have the funds, assuming these 20700A's end up not working out.
     
  11. Barkuti

    Barkuti Super Member ECF Veteran

    About VapCell 20700 3100mAh 30A batteries 20-25A, we also checked with factory, and we were told that cell-to-cell consistency with China manufactured cells are not good compare with other cells. We are now discussing how…
    Cell to cell consistency can be pretty nice with the good chinese OEMs. Maybe they should have admitted “our cell provider changed the cell we were sourcing but no one here cared about it and here are the consequences” or “we changed the cell under the wrap and…”.
    Hope they learn this lesson. If they are to care about their product ratings they need pretty tight product quality assessment and supply control.
    This pretty much looks sorta like AliExpress' sales of popular last generation 18650s with ludicrous prices: lots of fake cells being sold with similar capacity as genuines but reduced discharge/power delivery rating. There's an ongoing thread on BLF with dispute reports galore. :eek:

    Cheers :)
     
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  12. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

  13. Necrospecter

    Necrospecter Dulce de Leche to rule them all Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 17, 2017
    Fort Worth Texas
    Crap I ordered a set last week I went with them since the supplier was out of the Purple oh well that is what I get for not sticking with Purple Power
     
  14. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 25, 2014
    Metropolis Il.
    I just got a set of these yesterday, and just finished charging them, oh well its just one set, and 20-25A for the 60 watts I usually vape at should be O.K. good to know, I don't think I will be ordering any vape cells here on out though.
     
  15. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    You might have the 30A version.
     
  16. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    You might have the 30A version.
     
  17. Necrospecter

    Necrospecter Dulce de Leche to rule them all Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 17, 2017
    Fort Worth Texas
    I will look when they come in maybe I got lucky if not I will return them and get the better purple ones
     
  18. dripster

    dripster Moved On ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    The difference is visible even with the battery wrap still on it. In all 4 pictures below the 30A is on the left, the 20-25A is on the right.

    good_bad 1.jpg good_bad 2.jpg good_bad 3.jpg good_bad 4.jpg
     
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  19. Didgey

    Didgey New Member

    Jul 23, 2018
    Scotland, UK
    First of all, Hi all! I’m a newb, the names Steve. And this debacle has moved me to sign up and ask some questions as this is doing my head in!

    @dripster going by your pictures, I’m almost positive I have the 20-25A version but that’s going by the bottom of the battery, however the top on not so sure about. Could I get everyone’s opinions please?

    Also, thanks @Mooch for being a battery testing superstar! Yes I got these batteries under your original opinion, but I don’t hold you responsible for the .... up. That just wouldn’t be fair in my opinion.
     

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  20. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I can’t be sure. Assume they’re 20A cells.

    Just for clarification...I wasn’t offering refunds to those who bought the newer lower amp-rated cells. That’s up to Vapcell to address.

    I was only offering to refund the money spent by anyone who had 30A cells but thought they were the lower amp-rated ones because of my 24 hour mistaken posting and bought another set when they didn’t have to.
     
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