New Member, electronics hobbyist

[radellaf]

Hi, just signed up and wanted to introduce myself. I have yet to get any equipment and came to be interested in this because of a flashlight hobby (see candlepowerforums) that has had me using 18650 cells since 2010. Just got a Zebralight SC62 and love it. Looking for some new cells I noticed that high amp capability is all the rage, which is pretty new. I have some Samsung 2500s on the way, figuring they'd be good for the Zebralight or just about any mod.

I've met three people who vape:
1. Guy at local bar & mex restaurant who was clouding up the place 'round midnight with a somewhat Unappealing berry scent.
2. Guy at a science discussion meetup group who, after the meeting in a Indian restaurant, stood outside for a long time talking to me and demonstrating just how long someone can vape. He also worried me as he knew nothing of electronics and I could tell he didn't know a LiIon cell from a NiCd and didn't seem to feel he had anything to learn. I'm an electronics engineer by trade, and was being pretty delicate about trying to explain a few things.
3. A neighbor who seems pretty excited about the whole thing and got me interested in actually trying it. I tested an Efest 35A cell he thought was fake on a Bantam hobby charger and yep, fake - 1500mAh and probably unsafe at more than 2 amps.

Anyway, going to visit a local store tomorrow. I think I'd like a Vamo V5 or a Tesla mod with an Aspire nautilus (mini?) tank. Seems that's $50-60 online and curious to see just how bad retail prices are... or maybe be pleasantly surprised.

 

[jmur]

Hey radellaf, and welcome to ECF. Have a feeling you'll love it here. I'm a year and a half into this and I learn new things every week here. Anyway, just wanted to say hi, and I'm sure in the future I'll probably be picking your brain about flashlights. I've only just discovered how far they've evolved. Just bought a couple of Securitying lights. One a 600lumen, other a 1200. Use 'em to take my dog out at night in the yard. I love 'em! Can scan the yard first for racoons, coyotes, etc., and the light is phenomenal. Some of the racoons have taken to wearing sunglasses!

Look forward to talking to you again, enjoy the Forum!

 

[jmur]

Anyway, going to visit a local store tomorrow. I think I'd like a Vamo V5 or a Tesla mod with an Aspire Nautilus (mini?) tank.

They're both good, but I'm partial to the Tesla, great product. And the Aspire Nauti is great with it but I prefer the 5ml over the mini, whole lot less filling

 

[Train2]

Welcome aboard!!
Vaping can be a fun hobby - the equipment is undergoing non-stop new development, and there's something new EVERY WEEK that you might want to try! Battery knowledge becomes most important if (when) you start wrapping your own coils for an atomizer. The Nautilus is a great way to start - but you may find that you want to get into that part of things soon.
The heating coil and wick and airflow over those things make MOST of the difference in your vapor - how hot or cool, how thick, how much, how dense the flavor, etc. So you get to experiment and fiddle if you make your own coils.
But THAT is where people need to understand the need to test for a short, what happens if you build 2 coils with less than an ohms resistance each - and what couple batteries can possibly handle that.

Anyway - HAVE FUN. You certainly found the right forum to bring your questions to!
My first mod was an old VAMO - finish wore off, but still works, though it's "backup" now.

Hi, just signed up and wanted to introduce myself. I have yet to get any equipment and came to be interested in this because of a flashlight hobby (see candlepowerforums) that has had me using 18650 cells since 2010. Just got a Zebralight SC62 and love it. Looking for some new cells I noticed that high amp capability is all the rage, which is pretty new. I have some Samsung 2500s on the way, figuring they'd be good for the Zebralight or just about any mod.

I've met three people who vape:
1. Guy at local bar & mex restaurant who was clouding up the place 'round midnight with a somewhat Unappealing berry scent.
2. Guy at a science discussion meetup group who, after the meeting in a Indian restaurant, stood outside for a long time talking to me and demonstrating just how long someone can vape. He also worried me as he knew nothing of electronics and I could tell he didn't know a LiIon cell from a NiCd and didn't seem to feel he had anything to learn. I'm an electronics engineer by trade, and was being pretty delicate about trying to explain a few things.
3. A neighbor who seems pretty excited about the whole thing and got me interested in actually trying it. I tested an Efest 35A cell he thought was fake on a Bantam hobby charger and yep, fake - 1500mAh and probably unsafe at more than 2 amps.

Anyway, going to visit a local store tomorrow. I think I'd like a Vamo V5 or a Tesla mod with an Aspire Nautilus (mini?) tank. Seems that's $50-60 online and curious to see just how bad retail prices are... or maybe be pleasantly surprised.

 

[radellaf]

Thanks for the welcome, guys.

The new LED flashlights have really come a long way. Not so much fun that most of what I bought early on is now pretty obsolete, but I'll take a couple of the best new ones over a box full of what I used to have.

I stopped by a local indie vapor shop, Trinity Vapor Lounge, and was dissuaded about the Tesla. I think they were probably overstating the faults, given the good reviews. They were cool with the Vamo, but didn't carry one, and the chain smoke shop wants $75 for one.

Most of the mods there are pretty high end, and mostly artsy mechanical. I was salivating over a Provari P3. Most of the stick mods are so much longer than the battery. I guess it's easier to build them that way, but compact is nice. Which is what led me to the smallest thing there, which (bonus!) was the cheapest.

So as of today I'm the proud owner of a Nautilus Mini sitting atop an Eleaf iStick. That along with the house melon liquid has been a lot of fun this evening. I just wish I had more tanks to try the other two flavors: one coffee-like and the other tobacco-ish. So far I've used maybe 1.5mL, so I think for now the mini is big enough.

Now, I didn't get one of the main things I wanted, which was to have something else to do with the too-many 18650 batteries I have around here. The IPV mini was tempting, but it is so new and, really, it is a LOT bigger than the iStick.

At some point I'd like to try a rebuildable and _maybe_ another mod. I am surprised about mechanicals, though, that I haven't found one for under $50, and that _none_ of them appear to have a fuse. That's just basic battery safety - you have to have _something_. <sigh> I have to remember, most people aren't coming at this from an electronics perspective, and it's still a relatively new thing.

So, for the future, maybe I'll see a good mech, the IPV mini will get raves, or maybe I'll put a big rebuildable on the tiny iStick. <shrug> The IGO-T looks like it's well made for the price.

Also have to see if I end up sticking with this. Only been a few hours. Not sure if it'll get unpleasant for some reason or cause a respiratory issue. Hope not, because I've really been enjoying the flavor and hookah-ish experience so far.

 

[Wolfenstark]

I got some batteries delivered today after 8 weeks and they are fake.

In the meantime I'm waiting on a mod to be delivered and even if the batteries were authentic they're not recommend for the new mod ( ordered them for my previous mod but did get authentic ones in the meantime as i suspected they may take a while to get to me )

Got authentic batteries already for the new mod.

 

[Rickajho]

Welcome.

If you are referring to the electronic version of a Tesla that gets a DO NOT BUY in my book. The fire switches are lightweight crap and they die in about 90 days or so. (Ask me how I know...) You will actually get better performance from a VAMO based on the electronics alone, and the fire switches are much more robust. The guts in the Tesla are built on old technology PWM - and I mean old. It's a pretty looking device, with a really cheap circuit board underneath it all. You will get more bang for the buck out of a VAMO - any version.

 

[NoLaSlim]

Welcome radellaf! I too may be hitting you up for some flashlight expertise in the near future. Funny, you got into vaping via your interest in flashlight, and I am just the inverse.

 

[Steam Turbine]

At some point I'd like to try a rebuildable and _maybe_ another mod. I am surprised about mechanicals, though, that I haven't found one for under $50, and that _none_ of them appear to have a fuse. That's just basic battery safety - you have to have _something_. <sigh> I have to remember, most people aren't coming at this from an electronics perspective, and it's still a relatively new thing.

You are right about that. You will not find a mech that has a fuse.... Anything that impedes the flow of current in a mech will be seen as a crappy mech (sad but true).

This is a weird culture here, and what some people do with their batteries will have you speechless... Some folk wraps 0.05 ohms coils (yes zero point zero five... you read that right) pumping 4.ish volts drawing 80ish amps out of their batts. At that point the mod itself has more resistance than the actual coil.... It's completely ridiculous and dangerous. A lot of us screams at the top of our lungs for them to stop doing that....

But that is changing slowly as 200 watts + regulated box mod are now on the market.... (which is not safer imo as you can ignite the e liquid and breath in fire if you don't know what you are doing).

Anyways.... Welcome to the world of vaping.

That being said know that there are fuse that exist out there like the vape safe fuse.

 

[Hoopie]

Welcome radellaf! Yes, what many do blithely unaware of battery safety will make you cringe. Wait till you see what they are trying to do with batteries in series. The IPV Mini looks to be a good solid mod for you. It's essentially a DNA 30 with a SX130 chip.

 

[Steam Turbine]

For future reference, here is the most techno oriented reviewer for vaping products.... Extremely thorough, I am a big fan.

PBusardo on YouTube

 

[radellaf]

I've seen a few of Pbusardo's videos, including for the iStick (which is also PWM), and they are pretty good technically. By my understanding, the time constant on heating elements is so long that a 40-50Hz PWM should make no difference, and the RMS/mean thing is just a conversion table. I'm sure that's been (being?) hashed out in many threads elsewhere, though.

The pbusardo intro makes me cringe, as does the word "juice" in general for such a viscid, lubricious liquid, but ... what else to call it.

My other favorite reviews, and quite a contrast, are Ruby Roo's. I still want to try Koi with a pineapple orange rum cocktail.

I saw the fuse boards and might consider those. A bit of a kludge but much better than nothing. If I were taking a crack at a new design I'd probably try to incorporate an automotive blade fuse. I doubt a 30A 12V fuse has much resistance. Even better is a transistor switch with current sensing, but then we're out of "mechanical" territory.

The other problem with mechs is the bottom button 90% of them have. As with flashlights, I know it's easiest to machine a tube and stick a button on one end and a connector or LED on the other. That's sort of OK depending on the grip you use for your flashlight, but a side-button seems like a necessity for this hobby.

I am a little baffled by the degree to which single cells are being pushed. It's not _that_ hard to get a pack of 2 or 4 18650s spot welded into a pack so you can pull 10 or 20A without stressing both battery chemistry and the physical limits of metal-to-metal contact resistance. The RC crowd has been abusing lithium for longer than us and favors multi-cell LiPos and balance chargers. 2S2P packs would fit reasonable box mods and safely put out more power without even needing to wind such low resistance coils. I mean, look at what the high power flashlight makers do. More than 10W? More than one cell. More than 5 or so amps, and welded tabs instead of pressure contacts.

But, I get it. Pretty new hobby, and people coming from the side of smoking rather than electronics. Just hope things get sorted before too many people get hurt. The flashlight hobby also has a lot of people coming from a background I don't really understand. Let's call it the...err... "personal protection" aficionados. But, that background is _very_ safety oriented.

The local vape shop has shown some interest in getting battery testing equipment, which would be pretty cool. I just have a Bantam BC6DXII which has a 1 amp discharge limit. Plenty for checking cell capacity, though.

In any case, I'm still enjoying the iStick and the melon flavor. Gotta get more tanks or a dripper, though. At least with the nautilus mini, I find I can get decent vapor off of 5W, and more than 10 starts feeling too hot to the tongue. Just a newb, though. I'll probably want to try 100W before the year is out

 

[jmur]

Welcome radellaf! I too may be hitting you up for some flashlight expertise in the near future. Funny, you got into vaping via your interest in flashlight, and I am just the inverse.

Same thing here! Knew nothing about the "new" flashlights till getting into vaping...

 

[radellaf]

I think Zebralight should seriously consider throwing a 510 connector on their SC62 or SC600 bodies. No display, but they could easily make it a FET switched, low-ohm protected, "mechanical" and grab what I think would be some easy cash with very little new tooling or machining required. For higher amps, would take a bit of re-design, and who knows how you'd incorporate their different power settings without a LED to show them, but even at max-power-only I think they'd have a thing.

 

[Warpigs]

Welcome to ECF!

 

[Steam Turbine]

By my understanding, the time constant on heating elements is so long that a 40-50Hz PWM should make no difference, and the RMS/mean thing is just a conversion table. I'm sure that's been (being?) hashed out in many threads elsewhere, though.

Busardo is totally right, it is very surprising to see a new device using mean as a way to interpret PWM output. As he said, if you take a flat dc signal device (like the majority of devices out there) and set it to 4 volts and then compare it to a 4 volt PWM device that uses mean, you will instantly notice that the PWM device is stronger.

We've stopped using mean a long time ago.

Compared to mean, X volts in PWM RMS is much closer to X volt flat signal.

That being said, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with mean as you can dial in the voltage to your liking.

It's just a matter of consistency. 4 volts should feel the same on every device, PWM or not, for a given atomizer resistance.

 

[radellaf]

Oh, in general I agree, if you have a microprocessor then compute the darn square root of the duty cycle instead of just multiplying. Only excuse would be if they were really up against the last few bytes of memory and couldn't even fit in an stripped down algorithm.
That said, if I want to match a value from a RMS device, I only have to do the math once.
As I only _have_ one device... so far this is not an issue

Also just noticed the Naut mini has a spring loaded male 510, so that compensates for the other missing feature on the iStick.

Edit: reduced some equations and found a simple conversion. I think this is right:

Vrms=sqrt(duty)*Vpk, duty=Vavg/Vpk, so Vrms=sqrt(Vavg/Vpk)*Vpk. P=V^2/R, Vistick=Vavg

Vistick=(Prms*R)/5.7
Prms is power in RMS
R is the atomizer resistance
5.7 is the peak voltage of the square wave, which I get from pbusardo's review.
or Prms=(5.7*Vistick)/R
I didn't try to get an equation for Prms to Pavg, since the iStick always shows volts even in watts mode.

Which means, the 6.0W setting I thought was so gentle for the Nautilus Mini is actually more like 10W, and the minimum 4.7W is more like 8.5W.
---

So, few days into this and already got a burnt taste from my first coil. Tried thorough rinses, threading a twisted paper towel bit through the center of the coil (got some dark stuff off), ammonia soak, isopropyl soak, tonight a whiskey soak. Might just disassemble it tomorrow.

I only have the one other coil it came with, so here's hoping that lasts at least until my order of replacements from vapor beast comes in. Along with some 30awg wire and 2mm silica wick in case I want to try "fixing" it. They have no flat Japanese cotton, but did have a chai tea. Like I think I said, I want spices and they seem oddly hard to find.

So, not sure why the burnt. I first got a bit of that taste after refilling for my first time. I thought the priming would not need to be repeated when just topping off, but I got a dry hit or two and never completely got the burnt taste gone after that. Initially not so bad but got worse over a few more mL of use.

Is it that sensitive? One dry hit and you're out $2.50 every time?

Saw a lot of reports of QC problems on these coils, though, esp. the two it comes with. Hope it was just that. I'll be careful but could use just a tiny bit of robustness in these things.

 

[radellaf]

The power to power equations are
Pavg=Prms^2*R*(1/5.7)^2 or
Prms=sqrt((Pavg*5.7^2)/R)

Making a table for some values of average power vs RMS power for 1.8 or 1.6 ohm nautilus coils:

Pavg	P1.8    P1.6
4.5	9.01	10.08
5	9.50	11.04
6	10.41	11.92
7	11.24	12.75
8	12.02	13.52
9	12.75	14.25
10	13.44	14.95
11	14.09	15.61
12	14.72	16.25
13	15.32	16.86
14	15.90	17.45
15	16.45	18.02
16		18.58
17		19.12

I think this is right...