New proposed FDA and UL guidelines for e-cigarette manufacturers that will affect YOU.

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Baditude

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I posted this information in the Deeming Regulations have been released!!!! thread. But since that thread is older and quite long, and many here on ECF may not be following that thread, I wanted to post this important information where it may be more likely to be read by everyone concerned.

Why safer vaping devices that don't explode will not be available in the U.S.

"The first vaping products designed to prevent fires and explosions — and safety-certified by UL — are scheduled to hit the market in a few weeks. While these redesigned electronic cigarettes will be available in Canada, they won’t be sold in the United States.

The vaping industry blames the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, which regulates tobacco products, for preventing Americans from buying these safety-enhanced devices.

UL, the global safety company that tests and certifies tens of thousands of consumer products each year, now has a safety standard for electronic cigarettes — and Joyetech, a big player in the e-cigarette market based in southern California, is the first manufacturer with a vaping product that meets this rigorous standard.

But here’s the rub: When the eGo A10, Joyetech’s UL-certified vaping device, hits the market this month it will be sold in Canada, but not the U.S.

Manufacturers say it makes no sense to begin the costly and time-consuming application process until the rules for this process are finalized, and no one knows when that will be.

Technology innovates in cycles of months, not years, so the products being sold today were first designed almost three years ago,” VTA’s Abboud told NBC News. “Manufacturers have developed and are selling products in other parts of the world that have safety designs and safety protections in them, but we can't make any changes to those products here in the U.S. without going through the FDA’s multimillion-dollar multi-year PMTA process.”


UL (Underwriters Laboratories) TRIES TO ELIMINATE THE MAJOR RISK FACTORS
"The new voluntary safety standard for vaping products, known as UL 8139, covers the entire electrical system: battery, charger and built-in battery management systems.

A device with a removable battery cannot meet the UL 8139 standard. This eliminates the exploding battery in the pocket scenario. The device must also be designed in a way that makes it difficult for the user to change the heating coil or other major component.

UL requires an onboard battery management system, typically a chip, that regulates the power and automatically turns off the device if the battery starts to overheat.Manufacturers whose products pass the UL test must agree to quarterly factory inspections and annual follow-up testing to make sure they stay in compliance.

Michael Sakamoto, UL’s senior business development manager, said smokers who see the UL-listed logo on a vaping device can be assured “the risks are minimized and that they’re going to have a safer product in their hands.”



It looks like this policy would eliminate mechanical mods, juice delivery attachments that will accept replaceable coils, and battery devices that use removable Li-on batteries from the e-cigarette market in the US.

In other words, the only e-cigarettes that will be acceptable by UL and the FDA would be regulated battery devices with a battery management system that also uses a non-removeable internal LiPo battery and use a "closed system" juice attachment whose wick/coils can not be removed.
 
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bombastinator

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Yeah the deeming thread has been unreadably long for a while now. Thanks for this :)

Imho the seeming thread should have its own whole section and be split into separate readable threads. God help the poor sap that has to do that job though
 
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bombastinator

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well it does take all possible accident by stupidity out of the equation, you have to give them that. I can’t really see a way for UL to okay anything else even. That said, UL certification is in no way a requirement. It IS a proof-against-lawsuits though which may make it de facto. I can possibly see non-pod mods becoming only available as kits. Another possibility is you could have a UL certified mod with a non UL certified tank
 

jandrew

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...
It looks like this policy would eliminate mechanical mods, juice delivery attachments that will accept replaceable coils, and battery devices that use removable Li-on batteries from the e-cigarette market in the US.

In other words, the only e-cigarettes that will be acceptable by UL and the FDA would be regulated battery devices with a battery management system that also uses a non-removeable internal LiPo battery and use a "closed system" juice attachment whose wick/coils can not be removed.

I didn't see anything about a "policy" being proposed or implemented, and the article suggest the FDA is not onboard with this at the present time (though I could see them jumping on it as a requirement for new PMTA'd devices).
 
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bombastinator

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Works for this old lipo dude. I'm sure I can fill a closed system. More concerned about the next guy needing to quit smoking. I imagine that the market will find a way around this. Greed always wins.
one way would be the development of a safe replaceable battery. Some sort of standard the ISN’T proprietary. The 510 connection was in no way the best connection available, but it was the non-proprietary one so it beat all the others senseless.

One thing I could see happening is a shell for an 18650 using the 2x700 form factor. There should be enough room there to protect the battery.
 

r77r7r

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    one way would be the development of a safe replaceable battery. Some sort of standard the ISN’T proprietary. The 510 connection was in no way the best connection available, but it was the non-proprietary one so it beat all the others senseless.

    One thing I could see happening is a shell for an 18650 using the 2x700 form factor. There should be enough room there to protect the battery.
    Why aren't lipos safe? Perhaps they may limit power outputin these devices.
     
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    bombastinator

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    Why aren't lipos safe? Perhaps they may limit power outputin these devices.
    UL stands for underwriters laboratories. The way the company works is they offer to underwrite damage claims for products they certify for a fee. Therefore they make dang sure that whatever product it is is safe. It’s capitalism as safety system and it actually works pretty well.

    None of the lithium battery types are particularly safe unless countermeasures are taken. There’s jut too much energy in them. You treat them wrong and they explode. For UL to certify something it has to be more or less impossible for someone to treat the thing wrong. LiPos are always internal so even though they’re actually less stable than modern Lithium chemistries they can be certified by UL whereas lithium batteries with nothing to protect them but a bit of plastic wrap and careful handling cannot.
     

    Shawn Hoefer

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    Either way, I am certainly glad I'm well stocked on mods using 18650 and 2x700 cells. I hate having paperweights a year after purchase. On the other hand, perhaps this will create a new market for battery replacement services such as those offered for closed system smartphones...
     

    Baditude

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    Why aren't lipos safe? Perhaps they may limit power outputin these devices.
    It's the battery chemistry. There are several different chemistries that lithium batteries are made from. LiPo's happen to be the most flamable and explosive, with the lowest temperature tolerance of all of the lithium chemistries. The only way they can be used with any degree of "safety" is with a battery management system (protective circuit). Even with that protection circuitry in use, LiPo's can still fail quite spectacularly. The SMOK Stick X8 is a device that fits the UL model for internal Lipo battery and protection circuitry, yet this one is an example of one that failed quite dramatically while charging.



    The external Li-ion batteries such as 18650 et al are a much "safer" chemistry: IMR, INR, NCR. They have a higher heat tolerance, and are less likely to flame or explode during battery failure. They can be monitored when charged outside of a mod in a dedicated Li-Ion charger, something that can't be done with an internal battery being charged in the mod via USB. No lithium ion battery can be considered "safe", but these are safer than LiPo's.


     
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    bwh79

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    It looks like this policy would eliminate mechanical mods, juice delivery attachments that will accept replaceable coils, and battery devices that use removable Li-on batteries from the e-cigarette market in the US.
    Er...those won’t be UL-approved, no, but where’s it say that all that old stuff will be pulled from the US market? The way I read it is that’s all we'll have, since we won’t get any of the new (UL-approved) stuff here, because we can only have stuff grandfathered in before 8/8/16.
     

    DaveP

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    UL and the government should welcome new and improved, safer vaping devices. Unfortunately the Deeming Regulations apparently prevent or deter new product development. It's our government at work, guys.

    Exploding batteries were the main reason that they got involved. Rather than push the technology curve to a safer, more refined design, they chose to protect the tobacco industry by restricting new products to stop the proliferation of newer and better electronic cigarettes.

    The state and federal tax income on cigarettes was over $8 billion in 2009. It was $13 billion in 2017. There's lots of revenue at risk if smokers switch to vaping.
    https://www.ttb.gov/foia/pdf/ttbar2017.pdf
     

    VapourFlavour

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    Well I guess eventually I'll have to build a big box mod with a hand crank on the side, spins magnets by coils of wire. ... Each time a magnet passes by a coil, the magnetic field reverses direction, generating electricity. This is going to be hard on the arm :censored:
    :pervy:
     
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    bombastinator

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    Well I guess eventually I'll have to build a big box mod with a hand crank on the side, spins magnets by coils of wire. ... Each time a magnet passes by a coil, the magnetic field reverses direction, generating electricity. This is going to be hard on the arm :censored:
    :pervy:
    upload_2018-10-28_15-58-23.jpg
     
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