New Provari V2 reveals the Lava Tube to be... well, crap!

[Frick]

I think this is a fairly complicated equation to be able to figure out how much the boosted amp draw would be on the battery when you also have to figure in different voltages and ohms. I think it would be a lot more simple to take the battery out and hook it up with wires then test the amp draw on the battery with a set ohm cartomizer firing on the device.

I know you don't like the Provari, but the exact equations you're looking for are outlined in the Provari FAQ, in the section entitled "Why does the ProVari need to use high drain batteries (the full technical answer)?": http://www.provape.com/v/faq.htm

If you read it, just be aware that they haven't updated the FAQ to reflect the 3.5 amp limit in the V2 Provari, so it still says 2.5 amps as the limit.

To answer your question, the limit is on the coil side, not the battery side.

 

[ChrispyCritter]

To answer your question, the limit is on the coil side, not the battery side.

Yeah on the Provari it is but couldn't it be on the battery side on a LT? They don't really specify..if it was easier to get to the battery + contact I might test it.

From some testing I just did it seems like there might be a limit on the battery side or some other limiter. Reading the specs I can find for the device kind of suggests the limit might be on battery side too..I mean where it says 2.5a limit for the LT it also says it shuts itself off for over current conditions.

This might explain the voltage drops under load because when the battery would drop in voltage the amp limit would too..but when the battery leveled off it should be steady at the limit and some testing I did suggested this. Also if the regulator wasn't efficient I would see voltage drops when testing a 2.5ohm coil at 4.4v it's steady as a rock at 3.5v or a full battery.

BTW at close to 5v or higher with my 2.5ohm CE2 in a tank the metal end cap near the coil got so hot I couldn't touch it long..I don't think it would be a good idea vaping with that kind of heat things would be melting and giving off fumes..if you had to vape at higher voltages maybe a atty/carto that is cooled would be a good idea..I'm sure something like that could be built...

 

[expat007]

I believe you were looking for people trying to reduce cognitive dissonance, It is funny, I was thinking the same thing but it goes both ways, Lavatube owners will do the same. When a product turns out to be...not that good, it conflicts with their previously existing belief about their decision-making abilities, and they will do everything to reduce that conflict.

Even I, knowing something about psychology (and working in marketing lol), had some of those mixed feelings but in the end I do have an objective perception. I do have a lavatube, never had a provari, and the lavatube, TO ME, is not very far from...crap.

- It does drop under load, and I know that feeling because I spent many months with unregulated mods;
- It does lie, It never reaches 6v;
- Top and bottom caps do fall off pretty easy;
- The connector is not sealed and will give you problems with juice in the electronics over time;
- The button loses its color pretty easy and can (maybe from the previous point) misfire;
- the connector is not that firm and will make your carto/atty lean to the sides;

It´s not my unit, mine just had all the issues that were stated by many, many users.

There´s a reason every now and then someone says it´s crap, and you dont see a soul saying that about high-end mods, maybe overpriced, or heavy but never crap because they really are very well built. It just comes to what is important to you, I just like to vape so it´s not the end of the world, but the truth is, it does have a lot of problems.

I would just like to make clear that I am not twelve or have any issues with my confidence to be solved so I will not engage in fanboys discussions.

I will now vape away with my crappy lavatube, and if your happy with what it does, so should you.

Wow, you must have some incredibly bad luck. I suggest you stay away from traffic and sharp instruments. LOL!

I'm glad you have no confidence issues and are obviously not a fanboy. Too bad there are so many of them. It's really obnoxious after a while, especially in the new member forums where every newbie asking for suggestions is met with legions of Provari fanboys who insist that anything else is a complete waste of money.

My LT will reach 6V, but only with 3.5+ohms. I can get about 5.6-5.8V with 3ohms, but I never vape that high so, for me, it's really a non-issue. I have to wonder though, how many people who complain about voltage drop-off would be complaining if they couldn't see the numbers. I envision a LT user saying "hmmm....this is a great vape. What? Wait a minute!! I thought I was vaping at 6V but it's only 5.6V. What a piece of crap"

Never heard of the top cap falling off. I know there were some issues with the bottom cap early on. It's a "blow-off" cap, so it can't be too tight. Mine seems to be fine though.

I've only had my LT for a few months. The only real flaw with mine is a LCD screen that isn't set into the body exactly level. One edge protrudes slightly from the recessed area, but it's not a big enough deal to send it back. I drip (and flood) fairly regularly so I guess I'll just wait for problems with the connector. I've blown through the bottom to see if any moisture comes out of the switch area and, so far, there hasn't been any, but I'm aware of cases where liquid infiltration has been a problem. I don't see any leaning in cartos or tanks, and the connector seems pretty tight to me. I think I would have returned it if the connector wasn't straight. That would drive me nuts.

Do you have the the earlier version with silver adjustment buttons? My firing button is black, as are the adjustment buttons. Only the power button is red. I see no issue with the color and I've never had a misfire, knock on wood. Most of the problems you have seem to be ones that some of the very first LTs had. From what I've seen and heard, they've been pretty much rectified in the newer versions, especially the button paint and endcap issues.

As regards reducing cognitive dissonance, that's close but not exactly what is at work here. Reducing cognitive dissonance would compel someone to deny or minimize faults, but the degree of that denial isn't necessarily commensurate with the price paid. The hesitance to criticize a purchase, and the compulsion to praise it, in proportion to the price paid, is a slightly different, yet distinct, psychological phenomenon. It's kind of like the opposite of buyer's remorse, if you catch my meaning. It's epidemic in the field of audio equipment, for example, where people who pay $500 for speaker cables swear up and down that they can hear an improvement despite double blind tests proving beyond a doubt that there is no difference between their $500 cables and $25 cables. Someone who pays $70 for a LT wouldn't be as subject to this self-justification as someone who pays $200 for another PV. There is little need for most people to justify the purchase of a $70 VV PV to themselves. It's not an unreasonable price and most people don't expect perfection from a $70 PV. Therefore, they don't hesitate to identify flaws, even though they are prone to couch them in terms of the relatively low price. OTOH, people who pay $200 for a PV expect near perfection. They not only feel the need to justify their purchase to themselves, but to others as well. They also feel compelled to encourage others to follow their lead, which provides them with further reinforcement that their purchase was a wise one. It's more akin to self-justification or rationalization than it is of reducing cognitive dissonance.

 

[donnah]

I'm getting tired of being told that I'm trying to justify spending $159 for my provari. Relatively speaking, compared to what I used to spend on cigarettes, it's a small price to pay for something that I am very happy with. I bought a Honda instead of a BMW and I'm very happy with it. I bought a kindle fire instead of an iPad and I'm very happy with it. But for some things I want a solid product that to me, is worth the extra price.

 

[expat007]

I bought a BMW instead of a Honda. I used to have a Honda and I thought it was good. How stupid could I be? I'll never be suckered in by the hype again. Of course, I never realized what a piece of crap it was until I got a BMW. I'm willing to pay extra for a solid product. Once you own a BMW, you'll never be satisfied with a crappy Honda again. People who think Hondas are great simply have just never owned a BMW. Hondas are o.k. if that's all you can afford and you don't mind putting up with lousy cornering, cheap vinyl seats and a speedometer that's off by .5mph once you get past 85, but you'll never know what driving is until you spring for a BMW. You'll only think you like your Honda because you don't know any better. So, go ahead and spring for a BMW. Anything else is a waste of money, but you'll never realize it until you are dragged from the darkness by a BMW. You say you only drive to the corner grocery store? That's o.k. A BMW is for you. You have 6 kids, 4 .... dogs and live in the hills of Appalachia? You need a BMW. Got your license yesterday? You need a BMW. You need to tow a 26' boat? You still need a Provari....errr... I mean a BMW.

 

[sandscards]

I do think you made my point for me. If you need to tow a 26 foot boat, buy a truck made to pull a 26 foot boat. Have six kids, buy a vehicle made to haul 8 passengers. Want to vape at 6 volts, buy a device that will let you vape at six volts. Don't be misled and buy a truck that says it is made to pull 26 foot boats that will only haul a 15 foot boat, an eight passenger van with only four seats, or a device that says you are vaping at 5.5 volts and only putting out 4.2 volts. Thank you for explaining this in that I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Darkstarncw]

I'm really not interested in jumping into this argument, but I'd like to point out that your analogies are completely absurd here. There is a large difference between buying a car and a vaporizer. For one, I hope people are test driving their cars before they buy them, which is a non-option for pv's. The recommendations of other users are the primary way we know what we're investing in. I've also never heard of someone claiming they could use their Provari to vape anything ridiculous, which is your implication with your 26' boat statement. Most Provari users aren't claiming that the device that you like using is wrong for you, so much as they're claiming that there is a better option, or that the device hasn't worked for them. Since the price difference isn't thousands of dollars, I really don't see how you can see many similarities. We're not talking a couple of date nights with the BMW, we're talking yearly mortgage payments.

As always, vape what you're happy with, but try to understand both sides of the table, and don't be brutally offended when people disagree with you.

 

[sandscards]

Nice post Darkstarncw. I agree and am out of here.

 

[expat007]

I'm not offended in the least. My analogy was accurate. All you have to do is look at the new member section. Every time a newbie asks what they should buy, here come the Provari fanboys. No matter if they say they want to spend under $100, or if they say they smoke a pack a week, or they ask for something that looks like a cigarette with a light in the end. Someone invariably insists that anything but a Provari is a complete waste of money and since they'll be getting one sooner or later anyway, they might as well just skip all the other PVs, which are all crap BTW, and buy the Provari right off the bat. It's the same thing that happened when the eGo first came out, except it's worse.

I wasn't the one who started the car comparisons in the first place. The fanboyism in that post was no less ridiculous or obnoxious than a lot of the Provari fanboyism I see here every day. I really won't be surprised at all when I see a post claiming the Provari cooks dinner, washes clothes and diapers your baby. It's just a matter of time.

 

[expat007]

I do think you made my point for me. If you need to tow a 26 foot boat, buy a truck made to pull a 26 foot boat. Have six kids, buy a vehicle made to haul 8 passengers. Want to vape at 6 volts, buy a device that will let you vape at six volts. Don't be misled and buy a truck that says it is made to pull 26 foot boats that will only haul a 15 foot boat, an eight passenger van with only four seats, or a device that says you are vaping at 5.5 volts and only putting out 4.2 volts. Thank you for explaining this in that I couldn't have said it better.

If I buy a truck made to tow a 26' boat when equipped with the optional transmission cooler, I'm not going to complain when I can only tow a 15' boat because I didn't buy the transmission cooler. When I buy an 8 passenger van when 4 seats are optional, I'm not going to complain when it seats 4. When I buy a VV that is known to limit voltage on low resistance attys, I'm not going to complain when it only puts out 4.2volts when I use it with a 1,5ohm atty. Nor am I going to get all perturbed when the display shows 5.5V. In fact, that's an advantage because when I put a 3ohm carto back on it I don't have to reset the voltage and I'll get my 5.5V. Mabye you got a defective unit. Mine does what it claims to do. I didn't go into it expecting it to do something it never claimed to do.

 

[donnah]

I can understand why people get upset when others advise new vapers to go straight for the expensive PVs, I don't like that either because if they don't understand how they work, they'll just have problems. I didn't expect the LT I bought to do anything more than they claimed it would do. But I did expect it to do what they claimed it would do. If it had, I wouldn't have been upset over spending that much money and I would have been recommending it to others. The people who did get units that did what they are supposed to do are very fortunate.. but there are those of us that didn't, and we have a right to be upset.

In the post I made above I made it clear that I don't try to go after the best of the best when I do some research and find something more inexpensive that will fulfill my needs. Some times the most expensive and feature rich isn't the best for me. Sure I'd love to have an expensive, high performance car or an expensive, high performance PC Tablet. But I decided that for the money and what my needs are.. the less expensive things would do just fine. I tried this with the LT.. but it didn't fulfill my needs.. the unit I got didn't regulate voltage as they claimed it would do and I didn't want to have to keep trying to up the voltage all day to compensate for something I was supposed to get in the first place. I knew the amp limit and used cartos at a voltage that wasn't supposed to go over the amp limit and kick me back down. But even when I was well under the amp limit, it still didn't give me the voltage they claimed it would. I'm not a newbie.. I know what I'm doing and how to do it.. I've paid my dues in the vaping world and I know what I want and need in a PV that will keep my away from cigarettes. It's natural for people to get upset if they don't get what they paid for. I am happy with all of the devices I have now, they do what the seller claimed they would do and I recommend them to others.

I'm sure there are those who make expensive purchases and then try to justify them by dissing other less expensive purchases. But there are also those who make the less expensive purchase and then try to make themselves feel better by dissing the more expensive options. Not saying anyone here is doing that but it happens both ways. There are some wonderful devices out there now. None of them are the "best" for everyone. When someone asks for an opinion or a recommendation.. I give it based on their needs, budget, experience and preferences. Don't hate the provari because of some it's owners, there's no doubt that it does exactly what it claims to do regardless if someone thinks the price reflects that or not.

I jumped on the Lt kit as soon as it was released. I should have waited to see some reviews. I never imagined that I would get a device that wasn't as advertised. That won't happen again. So it was my fault since I didn't do enough research and wait to see what was what before blindly jumping in. I'm beginning to realize that maybe my unit was defective.. but my unit performed just like the one pbusardo reviewed and I've read many posts over the last months where others were having the same issues I had. I've not read any posts where people do testing on their LT and find that their device is spot on with the claims... not any with proof with pictures or video.. not on the version that came out last Christmas. Maybe they are out there and if they are I'm sure someone will present them. Just be aware that not all of us got units that were what we were told we were paying for.

 

[expat007]

Fair enough. I'm starting to think also that you got an early or defective unit. I got mine after they had been out for quite awhile and, in researching it, I heard about some problems and also about some corrections and fixes that had been made on them.

As much as I like Pbusardo's reviews and respect his opinion, you have to keep in mind that his technique allows zero tolerance for any adjustments, tweaking or anything like that. He's right upfront about it. If a tiny tweak can turn a dismal failure into the greatest device in the world, that's no matter to him. He won't do it. I first noticed that in his LT review when he couldn't get a Smoketech DC tank to fire. I just so happened to have one arriving just after I saw his review and, sure enough, it didn't fire. I lifted the center post on the LT by about 0.1mm and it worked fine. Pbusardo would never have done that. It's not his style.

As for holding voltage, I've seen posts where people claim that on the LT under 5.5V, it's very close; too close to worry about. Above that, it does have a hard time, especially with a depleted battery. I go all almost all day and never let my battery fall below about 3.8V and never feel the need to keep upping the voltage. I don't usually vape more than 5 volts for more than a couple hours at a time, so it's a non-issue to me anyway.

So far, there has been limited info on the V1.5 LT, but what I have heard has been good. If testing confirms it, the Provari is going to need some market adjustments. Same thing with the new Smoketech PV. Right now, it's selling for $128, but in a few months, I expect it will be under a $100 and Provari is going to find itself struggling to justify it's price tag. I don't hate the Provari at all, despite its fanboys. I just hate their attitude and condescension. Even the Reo fanboys aren't as obnoxious and, IMO, they have more justification.

 

[donnah]

You just had to bring up the reo!! I'm going back and forth with myself on whether or not to try to get one when they come out this weekend! I just cant justify the expense but that doesn't mean anything Lol. I'm still Leary about stacked batts but I don't know enough to know if that should be a concern or not. If I do happen to get one I don't have any batts for it anyway and id just have to stare at it till I do.

I already have a perfectly good bottom feeder (but that doesn't mean anything either)

I did see a pbusardo review on something where he talked about problems getting a dctank to work with a lt. From what I remember, the 510 connection on the lt is a bit more recessed than some and with a tank, its easy to not be able to get a good connection. And then if the tank sits flush on top, the air flow is restricted. A 510 to 510 extension solved that problem. I have the same issue with my bottom feeder,
have to use an extender to get a good connection and proper air flow. An easy fix.

 

[expat007]

Yeah, an extender is good to have around. The thing about the connector is that it'll fit on one and not on another. If you remember, he also tested a mini and the DC tank made the connection. The real problem is that rim that sticks up higher than the top rim of the connector. Also, those center pins float and there's always going to be a variation between one unit and the other. I had the same thing happen on my BB and I have to occasionally lift the center pole a tiny bit, but I have to adjust the post on cartos and attys too. It's funny, Pbusardo won't think of doing any of that stuff. If it doesn't work perfectly out of the box, it's thumbs down from him. IMO, the DC tank is crap anyway. I'm pretty much settled on the Vision Stones. They have a slot in the bottom plate, fit perfectly and are way less hassle than any carto tank. Of course, Pbusardo didn't like them because he had to flip his wrist now and then when the juice level got low. LOL.

Stacked batteries have an undeserved reputation and there is far too much hysteria about them.
Use protected or IMRs. Keep them in matched sets. Make sure they're within .1V of each other and rotate the top one. Virtually every time someone has had a problem with stacked batteries it is because they didn't do one or more of those things. If you do those things, they're no more likely to vent or explode than a single battery. I used stack batteries for years before I even knew the top one should be rotated and I never had a problem. The only thing that happened was that they probably didn't remain as evenly matched as they might have otherwise. I'm not one to run lithiums down to their cutoff though, so that's probably an extra plus on the safety side.

 

[donnah]

when you say rotate the top one do you mean each time they are charged and then replaced in the mod.. put the one that was on the top the time before on the bottom and the one that was on the bottom.. on top?

 

[KeysBum]

I used stack batteries for years before I even knew the top one should be rotated and I never had a problem.

Because you weren't worried about it you just popped them out of the mod, into the charger and back to the mod without thinking about which battery was which. You randomly rotate them without thinking or worrying about it. Laws of probability. It was essentially a coin toss as to which battery ended up on top. It all evens out.

 

[John D in CT]

when you say rotate the top one do you mean each time they are charged and then replaced in the mod.. put the one that was on the top the time before on the bottom and the one that was on the bottom.. on top?

Yep, exactly. I marked mine "1A", "1B", "2A", "2B" .... and rotate them every time. Keys is pretty much correct that chance will pretty much take care of it anyway, but maybe right down at the molecular level it might make a tiny differerence if you rotate them every time, but it would probably take a master's degree in EE to quantify the difference.

As for not recommending the very best PV to people; I just see a lot of people wasting a hell of a lot of money as they work there way up to whatever it is they eventually find themselves satisfied with for a considerable length of time.

I started with a crappy eGo clone, then a Joyetech eGo-T starter kit for $80, and then a 1000mah eGo-T passthrough for $29. Add an e-Power 14650 with a couple of batteries and 5 cartos for $45, and you're right about exactly where you'd be if you got a Smoktech VMax, five DCT tanks and five Boge SS XL cartos (single or dual coil, it no longer would matter), four batteries, and a charger. Just about the same amount of money, but a nearly indescribable difference in the quality of the vape.

And it continues to puzzle me why people who used to spend two or three or even four thousand dollars a year on cigarettes are suddenly so concerned about coughing up the $300 or so that it would take to get all that I just listed plus a one month supply of juice, when a PAD in Connecticut would cost you about $270.

I just got the VMax yesterday, and unless it conks out right after the warranty expires, I can't imagine that it won't be all the device I'll need for a long, long time.

About the only thing the VMax can't do is look a lot like a stinkie; and if someone wants to waste hundreds of dollars on a look-alike that performs nothing like a world-class VV APV, there's obviously not too much I can do to stop them, except to try to explain what they're sacrificing in doing so. And really, wouldn't it be more cost-effective if they just got a proper VV PV [ProVari, VMax, Darwin, and just a few others] in the first place, and maybe just close their eyes when they vape so they won't notice that it doesn't look at all like a cigarette?

(And if they can't figure out how to run a ProVari or a VMax, I just hope I never have to share the road with them)

***

In CT, a pack of Camel Lights is $8.89. At that price:

1 PAD is $3,244.85; 2 PAD = $6,489.70. Come on, my suddenly frugal friends. Cough up (no pun intended) the $200 or so for your choice of the very best APV's that relatively modest amount of money can buy.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

After watching/reading countless reviews, I've decided to stay away from the LT (for now). I was thinking about buying one for my first VV but reading this thread has cemented the deal on top of the reviews I've seen. I'm not going to name any names but I see more LT owners trying to justify their purchases than the other way around. I really want to get into low resistance dual core carts and it appears that the Lava Tube just can't handle them above 4 volts.

 

[ChrispyCritter]

After watching/reading countless reviews, I've decided to stay away from the LT (for now). I was thinking about buying one for my first VV but reading this thread has cemented the deal on top of the reviews I've seen. I'm not going to name any names but I see more LT owners trying to justify their purchases than the other way around. I really want to get into low resistance dual core carts and it appears that the Lava Tube just can't handle them above 4 volts.

I see a lot of Provari owners trying to justify spending over $200 for a kit. A lot of people don't buy into the hype and are happy with LT's..sure the Provari has a higher amp limit but it did have a lower one not long ago..it also has a nice finish but so does the newer LT's maybe not quite as good but it costs about 1/3 as much for the chrome and if you don't care about finish 1/4 or less with sales..the LT will have a higher limit too and already there are some reported to have a higher one.

I don't need to justify my LT it works great at the volts I use it with the single 2.5ohm cartomizers I use..I started posting about the Provari because of all the Provari owners that felt the need to put down the LT like it was threatening to them. I got sick of reading it..I was sick of reading about it before I even owned a VV and at the time I thought the LT was overpriced because they were over $100 then being sold at one vendor..once there was competition the LT's price dropped..I think the Provape will have to lower there price with the competition of all the LT's coming to market now..the Provari is mass produced and I'm sure has a high profit margin.

The LT is a solid device for the money..the Provari is well built but priced about 2x as high as I think it's worth plus the short coming of only having 1 button (a matter of opinion but 1 button wouldn't work for me as I like to change voltages with the simple press of the buttons)..the Provari won't be able to handle low resistance much over 5v like I said in my other post not to mention the much shorter battery life with DC's on a single battery...

 

[John D in CT]

I see a lot of Provari owners trying to justify ......

plus the short coming of only having 1 button (a matter of opinion but 1 button wouldn't work for me as I like to change voltages with the simple press of the buttons)..the Provari won't be able to handle low resistance much over 5v like I said in my other post not to mention the much shorter battery life with DC's on a single battery...

In highlighting the limitations of the ProVari, you've made an excellent case for the Smoktech VMax, which I now have.

"the Provari won't be able to handle low resistance much over 5v": the VMax could put 6 volts to a 1.5 ohm single coil (4 amps) and still come in well under its 5 amp rating.

"not to mention the much shorter battery life with DC's on a single battery..." : the VMax runs on two x 18350 batteries.

I also find it extremely easy to change voltages on it. Just went from 4.0 to 4.5 volts with 4 clicks in about 5 seconds.

And I don't say this because I bought one. I bought one because I can say this.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...385-new-variable-voltage-device-smoktech.html