New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[cigatron]

"Historical cases of contamination with diethylene glycolEdit
On 4 May 2007, the US Food and Drug Administration advised all US makers of medicines to test all batches of glycerol for the toxic diethylene glycol.[38] This followed an occurrence of hundreds of fatal poisonings in Panama resulting from a falsified import customs declaration by Panamanian import/export firm Aduanas Javier de Gracia Express, S. A. The cheaper diethylene glycol was relabeled as the more expensive glycerol.[39][40]"

Found this researching glycerol heat flux minimums.Yikes, that not good.

 

[Eskie]

So, don't order VG from Panama? These types of events are more common than perhaps we in the US realize. Look at stories of tainted alcohol in Russia, toxic releases that reach into the water supply without regulation, sale of pesticide contaminated fruits and vegetables, contaminated cooking oil in India, or any number of other such events. Even in the US with regulation, food contamination remains an ongoing issue, or management of toxic waste sites can still not prevent movement into the ground water. On the subject of formaldehyde (making this sorta back on topic) look at the drywall used for emergency shelter/trailers the US deployed after Katrina which originated in China and off gassed formaldehyde into the living space.

Not to imply support for rampant over-regulation in the marketplace, but rational regulation isn't such a bad thing, and IMHO beats no regulation in the marketplace. Maybe a free market is self regulating, with folks learning to avoid the contaminated product (if possible) but I'm not all that upset if it will avoid a bunch of dead people to have responsible regulation in place than just leave it as a "buyer beware", hope for the best, trip to the store.

 

[kiba]

Punch is a crude temp setting, with 1 = lower temp and 11 = higher temp. I do not know exactly what temp correlation they use though. Perhaps its a % of the set temp.

So would it be better to just set it to 0 seconds and not use it?

 

[Lessifer]

"Historical cases of contamination with diethylene glycolEdit
On 4 May 2007, the US Food and Drug Administration advised all US makers of medicines to test all batches of glycerol for the toxic diethylene glycol.[38] This followed an occurrence of hundreds of fatal poisonings in Panama resulting from a falsified import customs declaration by Panamanian import/export firm Aduanas Javier de Gracia Express, S. A. The cheaper diethylene glycol was relabeled as the more expensive glycerol.[39][40]"

Found this researching glycerol heat flux minimums.Yikes, that not good.

So, don't order VG from Panama? These types of events are more common than perhaps we in the US realize. Look at stories of tainted alcohol in Russia, toxic releases that reach into the water supply without regulation, sale of pesticide contaminated fruits and vegetables, contaminated cooking oil in India, or any number of other such events. Even in the US with regulation, food contamination remains an ongoing issue, or management of toxic waste sites can still not prevent movement into the ground water. On the subject of formaldehyde (making this sorta back on topic) look at the drywall used for emergency shelter/trailers the US deployed after Katrina which originated in China and off gassed formaldehyde into the living space.

Not to imply support for rampant over-regulation in the marketplace, but rational regulation isn't such a bad thing, and IMHO beats no regulation in the marketplace. Maybe a free market is self regulating, with folks learning to avoid the contaminated product (if possible) but I'm not all that upset if it will avoid a bunch of dead people to have responsible regulation in place than just leave it as a "buyer beware", hope for the best, trip to the store.

Yeah, even though I hate what the FDA is doing to vaping, I still won't join the ranks of those who wish to see the FDA dismantled. The agency serves a purpose, even if some of its actions are suspect.

 

[mikepetro]

So would it be better to just set it to 0 seconds and not use it?

It is a personal preference thing. I like it cranked up myself.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Not to imply support for rampant over-regulation in the marketplace, but rational regulation isn't such a bad thing, and IMHO beats no regulation in the marketplace. Maybe a free market is self regulating, with folks learning to avoid the contaminated product (if possible) but I'm not all that upset if it will avoid a bunch of dead people to have responsible regulation in place than just leave it as a "buyer beware", hope for the best, trip to the store.

 

[awsum140]

Yeah, even though I hate what the FDA is doing to vaping, I still won't join the ranks of those who wish to see the FDA dismantled. The agency serves a purpose, even if some of its actions are suspect.

Some???? You're wayyy too kind!

 

[Lessifer]

Some???? You're wayyy too kind!

The FDA is responsible for much more than vaping and tobacco control. Part of the problem is that it is a government bureaucracy and much of it has grown to solely fulfill the purpose of feeding the machine. That doesn't mean we don't need an agency ensuring that medicines do what they say they're supposed to do, and that food is what it is supposed to be.

 

[WharfRat1976]

What is wattage necessary on a .2ohm coil to achieve 450 degree temp....anybody...

 

[cigatron]

So would it be better to just set it to 0 seconds and not use it?

Mike likes it cranked up. I like all the preheat stuff off but that's because I set my profiles for material types with custom tcr instead of specific attys. If I turn the wattage up say 20% more than my atty needs it fires plenty fast for me with no punch.

 

[sofarsogood]

Yeah, even though I hate what the FDA is doing to vaping, I still won't join the ranks of those who wish to see the FDA dismantled. The agency serves a purpose, even if some of its actions are suspect.

I can't enjoy all the wonderful things government is doing if I'm dead. If I have to choose between the FDA and me....I pick me.

 

[cigatron]

What is wattage necessary on a .2ohm coil to achieve 450 degree temp....anybody...

Depends on single or dual coil, atty chamber size, wire gauge, vg/pg/water mix of juice, wicking type, wicking method, juice channel size, coil diameter and airflow. I'm probably missing something but you get my point.

 

[bobwho77]

When I started 2 1/2 years ago the advice was to start with a higher ohm coil at about 8-10 watts. I still advise that and if you're lucky you won't feel the need to go beyond that. A refinement would be having that setup with temp control and having a readout saying the actual max temperature of the coil after each puff because then you might be reassured you're no where near that big bad scary 470 F where the California guys say all tha bad stuff happens. This morning I'm vaping in temp control with max temp set at 260 and using about 10 watts to get there and it reminds me of my Nautilus mini experience which many consider the classic beginner atomizer. Unfortunately this set up I'm bragging about took some time to figure out. I don't know what to recommend to a brandnewbie to do what I'm doing this morning.

Simple. You recommend a Nautilus/Nautilus mini, and a decent (but simple) vw battery that puts out 20w tops. (My choice is the MVP 20W. With the Nautilus, it's just about bulletproof, and a great vape besides)

 

[WharfRat1976]

Depends on single or dual coil, atty chamber size, wire gauge, vg/pg/water mix of juice, wicking type, wicking method, juice channel size, coil diameter and airflow. I'm probably missing something but you get my point.

Yea, the video smelled like an Evolv marketing stunt.

What is the exact science they used to measure the levels of carcinigens?

 

[WharfRat1976]

Simple. You recommend a Nautilus/Nautilus mini, and a decent (but simple) vw battery that puts out 20w tops. (My choice is the MVP 20W. With the Nautilus, it's just about bulletproof, and a great vape besides)

With all due respect, my opinion is that is a horrible vape.

 

[Eskie]

Depends on single or dual coil, atty chamber size, wire gauge, vg/pg/water mix of juice, wicking type, wicking method, juice channel size, coil diameter and airflow. I'm probably missing something but you get my point.

I'd add that in my experience, such as it is, I only need preheat if I have a high mass coil. Even a dual coil simple round build heats up fast enough that preheat doesn't feel necessary to me. But start talking dual Claptons and up, and it's indispensable.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Depends on single or dual coil, atty chamber size, wire gauge, vg/pg/water mix of juice, wicking type, wicking method, juice channel size, coil diameter and airflow. I'm probably missing something but you get my point.

I could give you all those parameters plus many more and the question is still unanswerable.

 

[bobwho77]

What is wattage necessary on a .2ohm coil to achieve 450 degree temp....anybody...

Not that simple. Coil temp also varies with the length of time that current is applied.

 

[cigatron]

I could give you all those parameters plus many more and the question is still unanswerable.

So it was a loaded question.....

 

[awsum140]

What is wattage necessary on a .2ohm coil to achieve 450 degree temp....anybody...

As a counter question, how long is a piece of rope?