New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[KenD]

I do believe the vaping community does have to stop reacting to every study published as either a boon or a slam on vaping. We can't just accept and rave about positive findings while dissing negative findings. That's what ANTZ already does (in reverse) and we all know it is intellectually dishonest.

Amen to that!

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[cigatron]

Let me rephrase, no vapor of consequence from a vaping point of view.

The fact remains, if I choose to vape straight vg I get lots of vapor at 440°f. That's a long way from the boiling point of vg so is it safe to assume that the water content in vg is sufficient to lower the boiling point down to at least 440°?

 

[Plettschner]

Has anyone seen my pants?


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[Eskie]

Has anyone seen my pants?


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Yeah, you left them behind Pluto.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Has anyone seen my pants?


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On the moon of Uranus?

 

[Katya]

Thank you Katy's is nickel coils safe to use ?
I mean if you make your own coils, is it easy to do something wrong to the point of tank explosion?

I noticed the coils are 0.15 ohms. Is there any hope for people who do not like sub ohming ? I tried sub ohming before and hated it .

Plenty of hope. As others have said, the old term "subohming" relates really only to Kanthal builds and mechs or vv devices. With TC, it's a different animal altogether.

There are several ways to achieve a vape similar to your Nauti with TC. Just look for 3rd generation tanks that offer TC coils--most do, nowadays. Subtank mini, GS Air Tank, eGo One etc. They are all good.

My recommendations for beginners--don't sweat it. Just switch to vaping. Vaping is much better for you than smoking, period. But choose a "safe(er)" (3rd generation) setup that also gives you options to transition (or just try) TC--with either premade or rebuildable coils.

Get a simple TC box mod: eVic VTC mini, Wismec Presa 75W or Pico are all decent choices and can be had for ~30 bucks if you look around for sales and deals. They all work fine in both power and TC modes.

The most versatile tank on the market is Subtank mini V2. It's not exactly a beginners atty, but it gives you most options. It comes with all kinds of coils, including kanthal, nichrome, Ti, and ss coils (for TC vaping); and a simple RBA coil. It even takes Aspire BVC and BDC (dual) (non-Natilus) coils. Just be VERY careful when ordering SSOCC coils! Kanger screwed up the naming of those coils royally, and most of those SS coils have a ss casing, NOT WIRE. If you want ss wire (for TC) you need to find the newer CLOCC 136L coils!

$12.53 Authentic KangerTech CLOCC 316L Stainless Steel Coil Heads (5-Pack) 5-pack - 0.5ohm / at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Less versatile but much more user friendly is the Eleaf GS Air Tank series. Get the old 1.5Ω dual coils--they work great out of the box and the load (wattage, power) is split between two coils, so if you apply 10 watts, each coil only gets 5 watts. They are really nice. The tanks come in different sizes and Eleaf also offers Ti and Ni TC coils.

I also love and use eGo One tanks--I like the megas (4.5 ml), V1 or V2, both good. Single coils, both TC (Ni and Ti) and non-TC, very easy and dependable. I recommend you throw away the included CL coils (they are garbage) and buy CLR (rebuidable) coils. Those come in two resistances (1Ω and .5Ω) and can be used out of the box and later rebuilt with any wire you want (if desired--they are ridiculously easy to rebuild).

Good luck!

 

[Katya]

There's nothing to prove that Kanthal is safer than stainless steel.

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Well, I'm satisfied that it is--with its protective layer of aluminum oxide that forms at quite low temperatures. The fact of the matter is that, until someone really tests those wires and how stable they are( the way we use them--constant heating and cooling), we're all speculating, to some degree.

 

[Katya]

I want to believe that most of you applaud you for this, and for starting this thread. I don't get why some feel the need to go on the war path, with very nasty accusations.

Indeed. I didn't even want to go there, but yeah.

@mikepetro and thanks again for this thread!

 

[Katya]

"Purest" probably Isn't the best way to Describe 430 Stainless Steel. Because 430 SS is just a Particular Alloy that is part of the 4xx Series Family of 'Stainless Steels".

It is no More/Less Pure than say 316/316L or 15-5. 430 just happens to contain No Nickel. It also has some Slightly Different Thermal and Electrical Properties than 316/316L.

If the Goal is to Use a SS Alloy that contains No Nickel, then Yeah, 430 SS is an Alloy that People should consider.

Right. I know. And I don't even know if the goal is (or should be) to avoid nickel or chromium or whatever else is in those alloys. We do need a study. I really hope Dr. F is going to look into this. Seriously, we all used Nichrome wires for years before Kanthal became popular--were we harming ourselves? No clue.

Funny thing about Ni; some people are severely allergic to it. But I know of at least one person (anecdotal, I know) who was a beta tester for DNA40. Her nickel allergy was so severe that she had to use gloves while building coils, but had no problems vaping on those coils. Go figure.

 

[Katya]

I do believe the vaping community does have to stop reacting to every study published as either a boon or a slam on vaping. We can't just accept and rave about positive findings while dissing negative findings.

Can't be helped, I'm afraid. That's how we learn and improve.

 

[dwcraig1]

Unless it is Designated something else, it Should Be.

Here's an Example of something that can have some Trace Amounts of Nickel in it...

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=c37fdf7f1b2e4b60aa4d50fbff156fc3

But that isn't 430. It's 430FR.

http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/ferritic/430_data_sheet.pdf
This is where I came up with the idea.

 

[AtmizrOpin]

i dunno what to think about all this. i DL. i like my SS316 and even my Ti vapes at 500F to 530F. i don't enjoy vaping below a certain temp. i'm guessing even at my temps, vaping is still safer than smoking. i like the tech side of mods and atty's. that's one main reason i got into it.
maybe 40%/60% = safer than smoking/building and modding.

 

[puffon]

This shows how impossible it will be for manufactures to prove to the FDA, that their products are 100% safe when used in all combinations of devices, juices, wires etc.
They only have 17 months to do this.
If things don't change soon, only BT cigalikes and a few closed system Pod Mods, may be approved.
The FDAs plan all along....

 

[Katya]

The FDAs plan all along....

Don't forget that there's a new sheriff in town. Fingers crossed.

 

[mikepetro]

Right. I know. And I don't even know if the goal is (or should be) to avoid nickel or chromium or whatever else is in those alloys. We do need a study. I really hope Dr. F is going to look into this. Seriously, we all used Nichrome wires for years before Kanthal became popular--were we harming ourselves? No clue.

Funny thing about Ni; some people are severely allergic to it. But I know of at least one person (anecdotal, I know) who was a beta tester for DNA40. Her nickel allergy was so severe that she had to use gloves while building coils, but had no problems vaping on those coils. Go figure.

Meow...........

 

[DaveP]

single or dual coil? It's been said here ss316l can be finicky in single coil (I wouldn't know only dc here) ss430 has been recommended which I want to try but haven't found trustworthy source for 26 awg

Almost everything I vape daily is single coil. It's usually a Kayfun and sometimes a Squape (r) or an Orchid V4 if I feel the need to try something else.

 

[zoiDman]

http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/ferritic/430_data_sheet.pdf
This is where I came up with the idea.

I'm going to have to do some Research on this.

Because I believe that SAE, ASTM and AISI Standards do not allow any Nickel.

Looks like...

ASTM 430 = No Nickel
SAE 430 = No Nickel
AISI 430 = No Nickel
AMS 5503 (sold by AK Steel as AK Steel Type 430) = 0.5% Max Nickel

 

[Eskie]

Almost everything I vape daily is single coil. It's usually a Kayfun and sometimes a Squape (r) or an Orchid V4 if I feel the need to try something else.

Not saying you need to use your single coils in TC, but I have several tanks I always build with single coil 316L and never had an issue in TC. It can be done.

 

[KenD]

I have a stand alone ohm meter for atomizers. I use that as the benchmark. i did a test where i tooks some puffs, warmed up the coil then switched it to the ohm meter to see how fast the ohm's return to room temperature. Well mine do that very rapidly. may be that's because they are low mass and fresh liquid is percolating through the coil and cooling them, which is what the liquid is supposed to do. May be how hot the liquid gets depends on how much time it spends absorbing heat from the coil. The faster it is carried away the lower it's temperature? I would be surpriised if at least a tiny amount of liquid was converted to bad stuff at most any coil temperature but would also expect the amount is trivial until you create a frankenstien atomizer for the purpose of producing toxins. But hopefully more work will be done on this. At the moment I'm enjoying my vape at max 260 F and typical power of 15-20 watts. I bet somebody in Callifornia wants to prove that's hideously dangerous too.

I'm amazed that you're getting any vapour at such low temperatures though, particularly at 210-235℉ as per your earlier example. Have you done the dry cotton burn test? When I tried out the ArcticFox firmware my experience was that the temperatures were off.

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[sofarsogood]

I'm amazed that you're getting any vapour at such low temperatures though, particularly at 210-235℉ as per your earlier example. Have you done the dry cotton burn test? When I tried out the ArcticFox firmware my experience was that the temperatures were off.

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My interest is a fearless search for the truth. If I'm wrong about something i want to be the first to disclose it and I have peer review, all you guys. May be you are right. Regardless i'm hoping lots of us test things and report the results and we'll get better at it. I just rewicked a 1.4 ohm coil i've only been using for a day so i could adjust the shape of the coil for better spacing so the coil is very saturated. The last puff i took was 28 watts and 329 F. If I let the coil get less saturated i'll start hitting 400 F at 5 watts. I tried my N mini for the first time in 2 years yesterday. It made a nice amount of vapor but felt rather cool compared to what I'm used to.

The shop where I work has electricians, mechanics, welders, machinists, designers, a paint shop, etc. (I'm the engraver and only in the trades for a few years.) We have a 60+ year old welder who's been at it a long time. He's the resident knows-eveything guy. Today I described what we do with 316 stainless, vaping in the hundreds of degrees and may be cleaning by pulsing the coil to a glow. What he tells me is when the metal becomes a liquid he must take various precautions because the bad stuff is liberated. He listed a few. But he seems very confident that 316 stainless, which is intended for high heat situations, is not emitting anything concerning until it is molton. I figure if he's wrong he should be dead by now. He said the only thing he hasn't welded is titanium.