I mixed my first 10 bottles on March 2 (all just single flavors for my first try.) My question is what percent of flavor should I have used? I did them at 3%, but after almost 2 weeks I'm not getting much smell from them, I shake them daily.
New to diy
- Thread starter dennism
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Some flavors are used at greater percentages than others. Searching the flavors percentages used by others will aid in diy.
3% is low for most (but definitely not all!) flavors, which more commonly range from 10-15%.
One of the annoying thing about DIY is finding the proper percentages. Sometimes the sites that sell concentrates will include percentage information for flavors, but often not. Even when they do, it can be a wide range, like "between 10-20%." That's a huge difference! Various internet individuals, entities, and communities attempt to collect recommended percentages, but it can be a bit time-consuming to track them down via a google search.
Here are a couple of lists I happen to have bookmarked:
Recommended TFA Percentages
Inawera Flavours Percentages for DIY eLiquids (unfortunately, a great many of these are in drops, which was the only way Inawera sites were offering mixing recommendations at first.)
But other than finding a list, you can check the site that's selling it to see if they include this kind of info, or just search google for something like:
Flavor West Butterscotch Ripple percentage
or
Flavor West Butterscotch Ripple recommended percentage
(just to pick one that happens to be sitting on my desk)
Sometimes it can be a bit of a struggle to locate this info, especially if the flavor is new, or not that well known or popular.
Some flavor makers are kind of well known for tending to make more highly concentrated flavors that usually need a lower percentage than others: Inawera and Flavour Art, for example. So even if I don't know what most people are using, I'll go low with these (maybe 2-3%) and add more if needed.
So, yeah, it can be one of the more frustrating aspects of diy. I often spend MUCH more time searching % recommendations than I do actually mixing.
One of the annoying thing about DIY is finding the proper percentages. Sometimes the sites that sell concentrates will include percentage information for flavors, but often not. Even when they do, it can be a wide range, like "between 10-20%." That's a huge difference! Various internet individuals, entities, and communities attempt to collect recommended percentages, but it can be a bit time-consuming to track them down via a google search.
Here are a couple of lists I happen to have bookmarked:
Recommended TFA Percentages
Inawera Flavours Percentages for DIY eLiquids (unfortunately, a great many of these are in drops, which was the only way Inawera sites were offering mixing recommendations at first.)
But other than finding a list, you can check the site that's selling it to see if they include this kind of info, or just search google for something like:
Flavor West Butterscotch Ripple percentage
or
Flavor West Butterscotch Ripple recommended percentage
(just to pick one that happens to be sitting on my desk)
Sometimes it can be a bit of a struggle to locate this info, especially if the flavor is new, or not that well known or popular.
Some flavor makers are kind of well known for tending to make more highly concentrated flavors that usually need a lower percentage than others: Inawera and Flavour Art, for example. So even if I don't know what most people are using, I'll go low with these (maybe 2-3%) and add more if needed.
So, yeah, it can be one of the more frustrating aspects of diy. I often spend MUCH more time searching % recommendations than I do actually mixing.
Thanks for the replies, I now know this will be lots of trial and error. By starting low I can always add flavor.
I am a long way removed from being an experienced mixer, but for single flavor mixes....
For a pretty small cost increase, I mix 25ml in 30ml bottles at 5% (unless I have found suggested percentages). If I feel it is "just a tad" short, I'll add a drop or two of the flavoring and try again. If it falls considerably short, I'll mix another batch at 10% and try that. If that is pretty much where I want it, I'm good to go. Too strong and I can combine it with what's left of the 5% mix for a 7%-8% juice which should be "in the ballpark." If 10% ends up considerably short, I can either continue with another mix at an even higher level or, based on the flavor itself, put the flavoring on the back shelf just in case I find a multi-flavor recipe that includes it.
So far, luckily, I have not had a 10% being so underflavored that I couldn't vape it and add a note to go higher on my next batch.....if it turns out to be a good enough flavor to keep.
For a pretty small cost increase, I mix 25ml in 30ml bottles at 5% (unless I have found suggested percentages). If I feel it is "just a tad" short, I'll add a drop or two of the flavoring and try again. If it falls considerably short, I'll mix another batch at 10% and try that. If that is pretty much where I want it, I'm good to go. Too strong and I can combine it with what's left of the 5% mix for a 7%-8% juice which should be "in the ballpark." If 10% ends up considerably short, I can either continue with another mix at an even higher level or, based on the flavor itself, put the flavoring on the back shelf just in case I find a multi-flavor recipe that includes it.
So far, luckily, I have not had a 10% being so underflavored that I couldn't vape it and add a note to go higher on my next batch.....if it turns out to be a good enough flavor to keep.
Detecting taste depends on many factors such as:
How you use your equipment: New (type) wick, wattage, type of atomizer, steps taken to clean,coil material and shape to name a few.
Mix composition: PG/VG percentages and with/without nic., who's flavor,age of flavor, steep time and type.
Mixer: Taste buds sensitivity, persons approx. age.
I'm sure I'm missing some, but you get the idea.
These factors would help solving your problem
.I started at 3%, thinking I can always add more flavoring. How long should I wait if I think it needs more?
For me, that depends on how short it seems, what kind of flavor I am using, and how desperate I am for the finished product (which I never am since I have quite a few good flavors going at all times).
First, let me be very clear, I am still rather new and others have far more experience with how much steeping different flavors might need. If I have found out from others that a flavor or mix needs X amount of steeping, I give it that amount of time before I try it. But if I have found a suggestion for steep time, there is usually a suggestion for flavor percent as well, so I start with that which has served me well.
If I have no information to start, I will mix and try it right away. If it is anywhere close, I will let it steep for a week and try it. If it is getting better, but still short, I'll give it another week. If my immediate trial comes up way short, I'll add a couple drops or so and try it again. I've yet to have a flavor get "too strong" from doing that, but if it ever happens, I have no problem adding some VG to cut it back even though that would reduce the nic content.
There are lots of options depending on one's time and how precise they chose to be. As was stated, trial and error as well as keeping a lot of good notes.
When I use a new flavor, I put a drop on my finger & taste to get a overall feel for the flavor. I then mix a small 5ml batch at a recommended %, (if I can find one), or an arbitrary % if I can't. I test after 3 days and again after a week before I make adjustments. Most PG based fruit/nut flavors will be as good as they're gonna get at this point. For PG based creams, custards & one shot blends, I'll continue testing weekly up to 4 weeks. I always leave the cap off of alcohol based flavors for 24/48 hours.
There are always exceptions of course but in my experience for stand alone:
FA/INW 1-4%
Capella/TFA 7-10%
FW 9-12%
In mixes, flavor %'s are reduced proportionally.
YMMV...
What flavor brands are you using?
And what flavors?
Some flavors shine after a long steep, custards, tobacco, vanillas and creams.
But some flavors are fine freshly mixed, like fruits and mint/ menthol flavor.
FA=FlavorArt is usually strong and can be mixed anywhere from .5-2% with good results
Tfa=The Flavor Apprentice ( also sometimes referred to as Tpa)
Can be all over the place for percentages. 5% is a good starting point.
Cap=Capella also 5% would be a good starting point, I vaped Capella Hazelnut at 10% with 2% sweetener for about a year and loved it.
FW=FlavorWest can be seen being used in the 12-17% range.
There are plenty more flavor companies out there also.
Hopes this helps a little, more people with more knowledge than me in diy are here to help/ask. Good luck, hope you find a recipe to your liking soon!
And what flavors?
Some flavors shine after a long steep, custards, tobacco, vanillas and creams.
But some flavors are fine freshly mixed, like fruits and mint/ menthol flavor.
FA=FlavorArt is usually strong and can be mixed anywhere from .5-2% with good results
Tfa=The Flavor Apprentice ( also sometimes referred to as Tpa)
Can be all over the place for percentages. 5% is a good starting point.
Cap=Capella also 5% would be a good starting point, I vaped Capella Hazelnut at 10% with 2% sweetener for about a year and loved it.
FW=FlavorWest can be seen being used in the 12-17% range.
There are plenty more flavor companies out there also.
Hopes this helps a little, more people with more knowledge than me in diy are here to help/ask. Good luck, hope you find a recipe to your liking soon!
An A+ answer right there ^^^^^^^^^. We need to know what these flavors are before we can really recommend how much to add or how long to wait. Giving the manufacturer, and exact name of the flavor will give you much more useful tips on what you need to do.
To start out I only bought 10 flavors 1-desert ship blend by flavourart 2-d hill flavor by flavors express 3-irish cream by flavourart 4-vanilla tobacco by flavor west 5-captain flavor by tobacco express 6-vanilla bean ice cream by capella flavor drops 7-cafe coffee by flavor west 8-am4a by inawera 9-hongtashan by tobacco express 10- Turkish flavor by tobacco express. I also bought some bitter wizard in case something turns out too sweet. I'm thinking about trying a mix of coffee, irish cream and vanilla, any tips would be appreciated.
I am afraid I only have experience with one of the ten that you currently have: Am4a - INW.
I have had this sitting in my stash for at least a year before trying it and finally ran across a suggestion of using as a stand-alone at 4%. I gave it a try and have to say that I am liking it quite a bit. It reminds me of a pleasant complex pipe tobacco. It is rich, woody, touch of earthiness, and a noticeable hint of plum/raisin. Another nice benefit of this tobacco is it is ready to vape in about 72 hours. It will continue to develop for a week or two becoming fuller and more complex but it is quite satisfactory in only 3 days.
I do have to say that I think 4% is a little high for me. I enjoy it as is but can only vape about a tank (3.5mL) before it starts to overwhelm me and have to switch out to something more mellow for a while. I am thinking that 2-3% is going to be more in my wheelhouse. Your preferred level will depend on how strong, and in your face, you like your flavors. Which is true of any flavor now that I think about it.
@dennism, just generally speaking, and not from particular experience with your flavors (except the CAP VBIC), I'd be trying them out as single-flavor mixes like this:
Inawera/FlavourArt - 3% (2% for tobaccos)
Capella/Flavor West - 6%
Flavor Express/Tobacco Express - no idea, really, so I'd start low and add as needed, say 2%.
3% FW Café Coffee
4% CAP Vanilla Bean Ice Cream
1% FA Irish Cream
Burp the air out and shake this every day for at least a week. It will surely need to steep.
Inawera/FlavourArt - 3% (2% for tobaccos)
Capella/Flavor West - 6%
Flavor Express/Tobacco Express - no idea, really, so I'd start low and add as needed, say 2%.
Here's what I'd try:
3% FW Café Coffee
4% CAP Vanilla Bean Ice Cream
1% FA Irish Cream
Burp the air out and shake this every day for at least a week. It will surely need to steep.
You'll flounder around for a while until you get a handle on flavor percentages for different brands and flavors. There are numerous lists of suggested starting percentages here on ECF. Just search for brand and flavor and percentage as keywords and you will find them.
Mix up a large bottle of unflavored nic/pgvg when you mix. You can use the unflavored to try new juices in small batches by just adding the flavor to a small bottle of unflavored. You can also use the unflavored to dilute mixes that you accidentally over-flavored. To cut a 6% mix down to 3% just mix the juice and the unflavored half and half. I vape unflavored here and there, especially when my taste buds get immune to flavors. It kind of resets your taste and gives your taste buds a break.
If you aren't using a juice calculator, download one and try it. I like EJuiceMeup.
eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator
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