Newbie vaper puzzled by outrageously nasty taste

[Tazling]

Hi all. I quite recently thought I would try vaping (out of curiosity more than anything). At a retail store I talked to real people, enjoyed the conversation, and ended up with a Pockex device and a bottle of zero nic Cafe Vanilla (CEL) ejuice. (I'm not in it for the nicotine just wanted to see what it was like and "what all the fuss is about".) I found it was actually quite enjoyable. The coffee/vanilla flavour was pretty convincing, and the vapour was smooth and rather comforting. Cigarette smoke makes me gag (I've never been a smoker) so it was a real novelty to be able to "smoke"! gave me a giggle, and I found it was a nice mini-treat too, like a cookie, now and then.

So, here's where I got silly. I tend to overdo it when I discover a new interest to explore Did some casual googling about vape juice and I was fascinated by all the hundreds of flavours out there... some of them sound soooo delicious... so I thought Wow, if I could find some really yummy flavours I might be able to substitute a tasty vape for a snack attack... and that might help me lose some weight.

So I ordered about fifteen zero-nic e-juices of all different flavours from various sources (naming no names). I was pretty excited when the padded mailers containing cute little 15 or 30 ml bottles showed up today! (Who can resist a whole row of mini bottles with coloured labels featuring yummy flavour names? It's like a box of liqueur chocolates!) I also got a couple of slender e-cigarette devices (Kanger) to try out small amounts of different flavours without disturbing my original coffee-flavoured Pockex.

So I filled the new e-cig devices with a couple of different flavours -- a chocolate and a vanilla custard to start with. Let them soak in for several minutes and took a cautious drag. Agh! Ptui! OMG, they were awful. There was a nasty metallic taste, and the flavours were not at all convincing. So I rinsed out those cartomisers, left them to dry out, broke out two fresh ones and tried two more flavours: a lime and a sweet mint. Even worse! Just the smell of the lime, sniffing the open juice bottle, made me feel slightly ill. It was so *synthetic*; there was a really off-note in it, something sickening, I can't really describe it. Like... solvent? plastic? polyester resin? I tried a puff or two and almost threw up. What a huge disappointment! And my mouth got all tingly which never happened before.

So I took a long cold drink of water, went outside for some fresh air, and bucked up some firewood (chainsaw work). For the whole hour I was working I kept on tasting the awful chemical aftertaste of that lime flavour. It just wouldn't go away -- and I felt slightly nauseous. I had got a little of the juice on my fingers while opening bottles, and every time my hand came anywhere near my face I felt a bit sick from the smell. And I was thinking, WTH? How come the coffee flavour is so mellow and soothing, and these other flavours are so ghastly?

So I did a bunch more googling... and realised that the (low to mid cost) juices I had bought to try out were all quite high PG. They were 70/30 PG to VG whereas the one I had bought (dumb luck!) in the store was the reverse, 30 PG to 70 VG.

So now I ask the experts: could the issue be the PG percentage? is it possible that I am hypersensitive to PG and it is spoiling all the flavours and making me feel pukey? I don't think it's the Kanger devices because of how bad the lime juice smelled (without even being vaporised). I did offer the ecigs to my husband for a taste test, and he also found there was an unpleasant aftertaste; but he didn't find it nearly so horrible as I did. He said the flavour was basically OK but there was "a bit of a bitter aftertaste." It didn't make him feel nauseous. But even the 2nd-hand vapour from his test puffs was enough to make me gag.

Honestly, if I had tried any of these juices as my first vaping experience I would never have vaped again! I don't want to knock the companies that made them, because I get the feeling this reaction is "just me". But if anyone else has anything like a similar experience I would love to know more. I just wasted a whole lot of money on juices that I will never in a million years be able to vape; I can probably give them to other vapers in my locality, but what could/should I try as an alternative?

I'm thinking there can't be *just one* vape juice flavour in the whole wide world that I can tolerate! Maybe I should be looking for (a) natural plant-based flavourings instead of the harsh synthetics, and/or (b) high-VG juices? Can't figure out whether my disgust-reaction is to the PG or to the flavourings. This is probably the biggest consumer-regret surprise I've had in recent years. I know it's my own fault for going hog-wild with the juice purchase, wanting to try out all those flavours... but wow, the taste test was a real shock.

 

[AngeNZ]

There's millions of vape juices out there - but not all are made equally. Some use crap ingredients which may taste fine to a smokers taste buds - but to a long term vaper or non-smoking vaper - it will taste like crap

Can you list brand names and flavours of what you don't like and the one you love? It could well be inferior ingredients, but it will give us something to check on and advise on.

It you do a post asking for 'recommended great tasting brands' or similar, you will at least get some tried and true mixes to try - good luck

 

[Tazling]

I was reluctant to name the vendors because, well, I don't know for sure that there is anything wrong with their product. It could be an idiosyncratic reaction on my part like an allergy or chemical sensitivity. I don't want to diss on anyone's brand unfairly. So, with that in mind... the flavours I tried came from two sources. One was CanadaVapes. The other was VapingZone. I tried four of the CV flavours before giving up, and 2 of the VZ.

The CV flavours were definitely worse, in terms of awful smell and taste. I tried Vanilla Custard, Chocolate Chill, Key Lime Pie, Earl Gray Tea. Then I gave up. I sniffed a few other bottles (Hazelnut, can't remember which others) and the smell was bad enough that I didn't even bother trying to vape them. All of them were really bad, but if I had to pick a Worst of Show it would probably be the Key Lime Pie which almost made me puke.

The VZ was only moderately nasty; I tried Sweet Mint and a Berries/Cream of some kind. The mint was more aftertaste than flavour, like a ghost of mint with a horrible chemical overlay, and the berry one I don't even remember clearly except for thinking Yuck.

But none of them was anything like the CEL Cafe Vanilla that I actually enjoy. I'm really puzzled. Why is the CEL juice a pleasant experience, and these two other brands are just ghastly? It seems like there would be irate customers flaming all over the vaping world if other people reacted to them the same way I did, so it's gotta be me...

 

[bombastinator]

This is a problem endemic to the way artificial flavorings work. Different people taste them differently. This is why whenever the topic of “what are the best juice flavors?” come up there are choruses of “no such thing”.

Something someone thinks is awesome the next person will find to be awful. Best practice is find a brick and mortar store with a juice bar so you can taste 20-30 flavors and find something you personally like.

 

[IDJoel]

Hi and welcome to ECF!

This is all only my opinion; so don't take it as more than that. But...

PG can feel like a harsher (more irritating sensation to mouth, throat, and/or lungs) vape. But, for most folks, does not "taste" bad in and of itself. I don't think that is your issue. VG is (generally) considered to be a bit more smooth, and have a subtle sweetness to it.

I am more inclined to believe it is one, or more, of the following:

-- Hardware is not set up properly. If you are using an adjustable power supply (meaning you can adjust the power/wattage/voltage/temperature); try reducing the power/temp level. What is an appropriate setting on one device, is not necessarily right for a different one. Try varying the setting to find the best flavor for that e-liquid.

By the way: all hardware does not produce flavor (perceptably) identically. For an experiment (if you have enough cartos) put a little of the e-liquid you like into the Kanger, and see how it compares to the Aspire. It may be the same, similar, or quite different.

-- The e-liquid is too fresh. It is not uncommon for any given e-liquid to need time to stabilize into its mature state. Sometimes, this can be as little as a few days, or as long as a month (occasionally, even more). Depending on how long the liquid has sat prior to purchase, it may be good to go, or need more time. Don't throw out/give away an e-liquid for at least a month. Put it away, in a dark cool (room temp.) place, and give it another test vape in a couple of weeks.

-- It is just the wrong e-liquid for your personal palate. I won't go so far as to say any particular brand, flavor, or ingredient is "bad." I can only say it is not right for me. If the first two don't "fix" it; I relegate it to this category.


As for lime flavors specifically; there are certain concentrates that have a distinct "peel" note to them. Just like a real lime peel, they can be acidic, astringent, and even have a "bite" to them (not "sour" per say; but more of a tingly bitterness to them). If this is what you are perceiving, it is not a bad recipe, it is only the wrong concentrate for your particular palate/expectations.

And, regarding the "metallic" taste; I almost always get that from a new coil, coil head, or carto... whether I use a store-bought, manufactured, or DIY built. Some are worse/better than others; but there is almost always some "off" taste for the first 10(ish) puffs. It can be the wire, or the wick, or a combination of both.


Going "natural?" Good luck with that. I do not know every single supplier out their, so I can't say with any level of certainty, but... I believe that will be difficult to find. Synthetic flavoring is the norm in e-liquid production. It is cheaper to make. And, it is easier to control the contents. I won't use the word "safer," as no one really knows the long term effects of vaping any ingredient. But, there are things found in regular foods that are perfectly safe to eat all day long, but you don't want to be inhaling. The use of "natural" ingredients, either has to go through extensive processing... which is costly, or they pass the risk on to you the consumer. And, once processed, has little to no difference to the synthetic.

Here is a link to a great article that explains it better than I do. If you don't read the whole page; these two paragraphs sum up what I was trying to convey:

Anyway... I hope that gives you some things to try.

 

[Baditude]

If you are using an early generation clearomizer tank, it is likely made of plastic (polycarbonate). Cinnamon and some citrus flavors (lime) can have a chemical reaction with the plastic which can cause it to crack or melt. These flavors are known as "tank crackers". Since most of today's modern tanks use glass or pyrex, this is no longer a problem. Just a "for your information" post.

Something Safe for Cinnamon & Citrus Flavors​

Some e-liquid manufacturers use alcohol as a base. That can cause the taste to taste "off". Some people will take the cap off of their new bottles of e-liquid upon arrival for 24 hours to allow any alcohol present to evaporate.

 

[Shadav]

there are a few reason why juice will taste nasty
1. with a new coil, it wasn't fully saturated before beginning to vape
try to place juice directly on the coil making sure to saturate it well, then place the coil into the tank, fill the tank, then let it sit for a minimum of 5 minutes but really 10 or more minutes is best to make sure that it becomes fully saturated and you don't get what we call a dry hit (nasty burnt tasting) too many dry hits and you will burn the wick and once a wick is burnt it is finished there's not fixing it aside from replacing it

2. the power on the device is set too high, if you have a VV/VW (variable voltage/variable wattage) device, lower the power settings..... if it is not a vv/vw then what is the ohm of the coil? you may need to find a higher ohm coil

3. just plain bad juice, unfortunately there are some companies that just really shouldn't be in the business

4. if you were using an already used coil and switching flavors then for a while it's going to taste a bit funky as you now have the old flavor and the new flavor soaked into the wick

5. Always shake a juice before using it as it can separate ingredients in the bottle

6. could have been higher in pg than vg; typically high pg will be more harsh and throat hit while vg will be smoother and more plume some people swear vg is sweeter I haven't noticed that, start out at 50/50 vg/pg and play from there.... typically higher vg is also going to be thicker and can be too thick to vape, using a drop or two of distilled water fixes this.....as well typically higher pg is going to be thinner and sometimes doesn't wick properly causing dry hits

7. sometimes higher nicotine than what you are used to will cause a pepper taste but since you said you got 0 nic this shouldn't be an issue for you

 

[GOMuniEsq]

It's not the PG, that's for sure. It's you. Your post reminded me of my first encounter with TPA Raspberry.

When I got this flavor I sniffed it and it seemed to smell like paint thinner. But it was only 2% of my recipe so I went ahead and added it. It made my juice taste like acetone. It was horrible and unvapeable. So I set it aside and mixed a different batch.

A week later I came back to the bad batch, tried a bit, and found it had somewhat mellowed. Then I sniffed the flavor bottle and it smelled like raspberry instead of paint thinner. Now I use raspberry regularly in 1% concentration without a problem.

So it was just a powerful flavor that overwhelmed my senses and took some getting used to.

also: what's up with the ancient kanger carto system? and: vape juice doesn't dry

 

[Baditude]

what's up with the ancient kanger carto system?

Using cartomizers to sample flavors is not a bad idea at all. They are relatively dirt cheap (if you can still find them) and provide excellent flavor. They only old 1 - 1.5 ml of liquid, which is more than enough to get an idea if you like the flavor or not. Only one carto per flavor, because the polyfill wick material will continue to have remnants of the previously used flavor.

Best way to judge a new flavor is with a rebuildable drip atomizer, but not everyone builds their own coils or drips, especially newcomers to vaping.

Another "ancient" method to sample flavors is to use a disposable 510 drip atomizer. Very similar to a cartomizer, but it doesn't have any wicking material. You simply drip a few drops of the e-liquid that you are sampling directly on the coil, vape a few times, and then drip some more to continue vaping. These are also a little difficult to find these days, but they can be found. I know Avid Vapor still has them. You can use one 510 drip atomizer repeatedly with different flavors, just dry burn the previously used flavor and then go to the next flavor. Should last several months of use if only used to sample flavors.

Drip Atomizer non-rebuildable​

 

[MacTechVpr]

Welcome @Tazling. Ehhh, sure you're not straight vapin a flavor shot, flavoring or concentrate? Sure sounds like overload (unless your taste sensitive, like me). Mebe a silly ? Just sayin.

Good luck.

 

[Tazling]

Y'all are very helpful and informative. Many thanks. To answer some of the Q's --

Hardware: I was using the little Kanger eSmart ecigs. They come in a "starter kit" of 2 units. Replacement "Clearomizers" are readily available in 5-packs. I have googled around and also read the (minimal) lit that came with the product, but so far I have not been able to determine whether the tank is plastic or glass, and what metal is used in the coil. They are not voltage-adjustable. I don't know what their resistance is. Specs available online seem sparse.

Steeping: no, I had not steeped any of these juices; will try leaving them in the proverbial cool dark place for a while to see if they improve. I'll be gone about 6 weeks so they'll have time to mellow. Will give them a firm shake and then store, and check again on my return.

PG/VG: yes, all of the flavours I bought were 70/30 (more PG by a wide margin).

Oops Vaping Concentrate: definitely not. Labelled and sold as e-juice ready to use.

New Coil: well yes, I don't think I ever got as far as 10 puffs! Was too sickened by the first one or two puffs. So perhaps I am getting new-coil yucky taste.

Plastic tank: possibly an issue, but non-citrus flavours were almost as bad as citrus, so...? Not sure if tank is even plastic, or thin glass. Not really keen on melting one with a lighter to find out

Citrus Peel: Nope, not a citrus peel flavour. More like airplane glue. Or polyester resin. And the nasty smell/taste was consistent across several different flavours whether fruity or desserty. The lime was just the worst of the bunch. Actually, the awful sickly aftertaste of that flavour is still with me on waking up this morning, over 12 hours later. Despite meals, tea, coffee, and a toothbrush in between. Ugh.

Natural vs Artificial Flavours: personally, I don't buy the claim that they are identical I can distinguish artificial from natural vanilla or cinnamon; I can tell artificial chocolate flavouring from real chocolate. Actually I think most people with a cooking background and a decent palate can accurately detect artificial flavourings. I can even tell "real" ground cinnamon from the lower-grade mass-market version So I think it might be worth my time to check out plant-based flavouring in e-juice. There are actually several companies either specialising entirely in natural flavours, or offering a particular product line without artificial flavours; the range is more limited of course, because the more "outrageous" and playful flavours are artificial. But I don't really want double peanut butter fudge with caramel and hints of rum; a simple mint, lavender, or other herbal-tea type flavours would suit me fine.

My conclusions:

1) I dislike the harsh "throat hit" feel of PG so I think from now on I will choose higher VG juice always. Question for y'all: Perhaps I can purchase some bulk VG and "cut" the juices I bought with VG and distilled water to tame them to my own taste?

2) I won't discard my juices right away, but will let them steep and give them a 2nd chance.

3) I'll try some high VG juices (but won't buy a whole lot at once!) to see if I like them better.

4) I'll look for a drip atomiser for tasting purposes so I don't contaminate all my cartomisers with multiple flavours.

5) I'll look in future for high-quality (expensive) juices rather than bargains.

6) I'll try putting some of my favourite (CEL cafe vanilla) juice in one of the Kangers and try that out. if it still tastes vile then maybe it is the hardware: new coil effect or they are too hot or...? if the Kangers don't work out it is not a tragedy, they were not that expensive.

7) it seems likely that when I have time to play around, I'll become a DIY juice maker.

This is a very helpful community and patient with newbies! Many thanks, er, tanks? er, thanks.

 

[Tazling]

Oh one more thing, I think I have used some jargon incorrectly. I thought that "cartomiser" was a generic term for ALL disposable atomiser cartridges, but I now realise that "clearomiser" is the right name for mine (they have a transparent reservoir so you can see your fill level). So please interpret all my uses of "cartomiser" as a newbie's mistake. They are all clearomisers. Apologies for any confusion.

 

[Evi|grin]

The Kanger E-Smart is a plastic disposable-type Clearomizer that features a 1.3mL tank, top coil design and it has a threaded mouthpiece

 

[Foggy Road]

ESMART???? That's 80% of your problem! Top coil with long dangling silica strings never did work well.
The high PG doesn't help but high VG probably won't wick at all thru silica.

Save the juice and trash the ESMART!


Edit: Now this is NOT a knock against Kanger! They've made and still make some fine products. I own and cherish many of them. But the top coil silica wick devices were tried by almost all the makers back then. Bad idea and didn't last very long.

 

[MacTechVpr]

ESMART???? That's 80% of your problem! Top coil with long dangling silica strings never did work well.
The high PG doesn't help but high VG probably won't wick at all thru silica.

Save the juice and trash the ESMART!

Wet gym socks…I think was a common descriptor for day old oxidized sillicrap wicks back in the Vivi Nova days. Not to mention all the arcing and burnt out pos post insulators.

Good luck.

 

[Tazling]

OK, OK... the inevitable n00b experience is that you buy all the wrong gear at first. I'm used to that.

I only got the Kangers for taste-testing 'cos they were cheap and had small reservoirs -- guess that was a bad move! -- so I'll keep looking for better toys. Looks like the battery bases can be used with other clearomizers with compatible 510 thread (see I'm learning!) so I can look around for bottom-coil clearomizers compatible with the cute slender batteries.

I'm also investigating disposable dripping atomizers (sounds like some kind of sci-fi weapon to me!) with 510 thread.

Gotta re-emphasise though, some of those juices smelled awful just out of the bottle, without even heating them up. I guess I'm shopping "premium" from now on!

 

[AngeNZ]

OK, OK... the inevitable n00b experience is that you buy all the wrong gear at first. I'm used to that.

I only got the Kangers for taste-testing 'cos they were cheap and had small reservoirs -- guess that was a bad move! -- so I'll keep looking for better toys. Looks like the battery bases can be used with other clearomizers with compatible 510 thread (see I'm learning!) so I can look around for bottom-coil clearomizers compatible with the cute slender batteries.

I'm also investigating disposable dripping atomizers (sounds like some kind of sci-fi weapon to me!) with 510 thread.

Gotta re-emphasise though, some of those juices smelled awful just out of the bottle, without even heating them up. I guess I'm shopping "premium" from now on!

I know you will end up diying - it's the only way too get that actual 'taste' you are after at a low price. Defiantly try some premium juices first - can you test some out at a local store? You don't have to purchase there

Have a look at the innokin t18 tank - it should be pretty cheap and will fit on your esmart battery (it will be a bit wider). It's a fantastic flavour tank. At least that gives you a good backup to your pockex.

 

[Electrodave]

I was a no-nic (0mg, as they say) vaper for about three years. Now I vape with nic, but haven't left the old ways behind me.

I treasure a nice, pleasant, smooth, cool vape. So I make my own ejuice, which is really simple if you're not using nicotine. Buy pharmaceutical grade VG from Amazon or wherever, and some graduated bottles.

My juice recipe:
Vegetable glycerin, pharmaceutical or food grade
0.5% 60/40 purified water/ethanol solution. I use a brand that has a big gray bird on the bottle
0.25-0.5% flavoring (the only pg in my juice is the pg in the flavor concentrates)

Mix. Vape.

You will need transfer syringes to measure such small amounts. The vodka will thin the juice enough for just about any carto/clearo/rdtbaxyz. The amount of flavoring is low, because I just really want to cover up the taste of the cotton. You might want to add more. Lots of DIY advice to be had around here.

This will give you a very smooth vaping juice. It will also produce lots of vapor, which may be a positive or negative depending on your POV. I vape DTL at low power, so smoothness is important to me.

 

[AngeNZ]

1) I dislike the harsh "throat hit" feel of PG so I think from now on I will choose higher VG juice always. Question for y'all: Perhaps I can purchase some bulk VG and "cut" the juices I bought with VG and distilled water to tame them to my own taste?

You can definitely add VG to your high pg mixes. Only downside is it will also dilute the flavour percentage

 

[Tazling]

I have found quite a wide range of non-synthetic flavours -- some are organic, even -- online... and have this time ordered SMALL bottles and sample sizes where possible live and learn, eh. will report back -- could be a while though as I have to travel soon and will be leaving before my order arrives.

@Electrodave Thanks for the simple recipe for DIY! I have used the Big Gray Bird to make fruit cordials so yeah, I know the one you mean. Looking forward to more stumbles up the learning curve