Nic and B12

[shanagan]

OK, I'm dragging up an old post I found by searching for Bell's Palsy on the boards...

For the last month I've been experiencing numbness and tingling from the neck down. No other symptoms. I've baffled one doctor sufficiently to have moved onto another (with the next step being a neurologist). I am exceedingly healthy, 40, and a few lbs overweight but nothing serious. I've literally been so healthy that the last time I visited a doctor (other than female checkup stuff) was over five years ago for a muscle spasm. When I went a couple of weeks ago to address this and my blood pressure was 122/80 I was alarmed - today's reading of 90ish/60ish is more like my norm. I mean, when I say I'm healthy, it's kind of absurdly so.

So one of the tests that'd been run on me was for a B12 deficiency, as it can cause paresthesia (that numb/tingly thing). As it turns out, I am low, which is weird, because generally this isn't a diet-related deficiency, it's more like the "helper" that grabs the b12 is.. broken, and so the body can't "grab" that b12 and use it. So what causes that to occur? It could be a genetic thing, could be caused by a type of genetic mutation, all sorts of things. But here's where the story gets interesting.

My doctor asked if I smoke. I said no, I quit, then I asked if it was nicotine-specific and told him why. (I vape 0 or 6mg now, btw.) It turns out, nicotine can interfere with b12 absorption. So, I've started a regimen of b12 shots (ugh, "yay") and have my fingers crossed.

But here's the thing - when I mentioned the e-cig he tilted his head in that "huh" kind of way, and finally said "Really interesting, because not long ago I had a patient who started using one on a Friday, and the next Monday presented with Bell's Palsy." She immediately quit usage of her pv. Yeahhhh. Interesting, no?

So I'll keep the board posted because I've really started to think this may be vape-related. I can't help but wonder if the way we're getting our nicotine is significantly different after all and in some of us might be messing with our B12 levels.

Weird, right?

ETA: b12 deficiency can also cause another really common vaping concern - sores in the mouth

 

[shanagan]

Thanks for moving, Mods!

Here was the old post I was replying to - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...mportant-question.html?highlight=bell's+palsy

 

[GoodDog]

My prayers are with you, Shan, that this is an isolated incident that the B12 shots will cure.

 

[Seabrook]

I also had tingling/numbness in my left pinky and ring finger. I thought it was b/c my nails were too long and pinching the flesh since my nails tend to curl under a little. So, I cut them down to the quick. It went away after a couple of months and I ceased wonder what it was. Good energy and prayers sent your way Shan.

 

[ShannonS]

Pernicious anemia/B12 deficiency is pretty common, especially of those of Celtic ancestry. So if your family tree is Irish, English or Scottish, it might be your genes. White females from 40-60 have the most common occurrence. Because the body makes and then reabsorbs b12, people are usually deficient for years before symptoms develop.

Lots of non-smokers have B12 deficiencies, the same goes for Bell's Palsy. Lots of smokers suffer too. If you put it all together, a 40 year old anglo white female who recently quit smoking is the most likely person to have a b12 deficiency, yet you think it is from vaping?

Are you a plant from the FDA for scare propaganda?

More info here: Pernicious Anemia: eMedicine Hematology

 

[Lisa B]

I had to go on B12 shots long before I started vaping, but I am diabetic and have neuropathy which causes tingling and pain but that is nerve damage from my diabetes. My vaping has not caused more complications to my ailments but has helped my breathing immensely. Neuropathy has no cure and can only be controlled from getting worse by controlling my blood sugar. I walk with a cane or use a mobility scooter to get around and I am only 47 years old. Nobody is taking away my pv.

 

[player30]

Thanks for the post. What I really found interesting was the mouth sores. I have had a time with them. I do take B-Complex everyday. As far as tingling and numbness, I have Lupus and that was one of my first symptoms (6 years before it actually presented itself), but I attributed it to smoking(Renaud's Phenomenon).

Best wishes to you!

 

[player30]

Pernicious anemia/B12 deficiency is pretty common, especially of those of Celtic ancestry. So if your family tree is Irish, English or Scottish, it might be your genes. White females from 40-60 have the most common occurrence. Because the body makes and then reabsorbs b12, people are usually deficient for years before symptoms develop.

Lots of non-smokers have B12 deficiencies, the same goes for Bell's Palsy. Lots of smokers suffer too. If you put it all together, a 40 year old anglo white female who recently quit smoking is the most likely person to have a b12 deficiency, yet you think it is from vaping?

Are you a plant from the FDA for scare propaganda?

More info here: Pernicious Anemia: eMedicine Hematology

ShannonS, if she is a plant, she went through 1061 posts before she began the propaganda.

 

[ShannonS]

ShannonS, if she is a plant, she went through 1061 posts before she began the propaganda.

She could be 5 people taking shifts, who knows? I think it is strange that someone who seems so concerned that vaping is harmful continues to vape.

 

[Seabrook]

She could be 5 people taking shifts, who knows? I think it is strange that someone who seems so concerned that vaping is harmful continues to vape.

Nicotine is our addiction, isn't it? Do you think she should start smoking again?

 

[scinsc]

I have a neuropathy problem also. Started about two years ago. I noticed it the most when in the shower (numbness). Started in the bottom of my feet and over time went up to my waist and then my hands. In March 2010 my neurosurgeon found low levels of B12 and now I take shots monthly. I quit smoking (smoked a pack a day for decades) and started vaping in April. I have improved over the months so that now it's just in my feet and the fingertips of my left hand. So thanks Shanagan for the post. It's helps to get a different perspective. Wish you the best.

 

[GoodDog]

Player30, I also have Lupus but never had the sores in my mouth until I started vaping. Now I have a terrible time keeping them under control.

 

[Sdh]

I thought this was the health forum. I would assume that a member can post their concerns. Their health belongs to them. They own it. I did learn something from this post as well. I recently went to my dentist and have a mouth blister. I can share that with folks.

thanks Shannagan for your post. It is truely helpfull for those of us who are concerned about the health aspect. I will continue to support anyone who post their concerns.

I do hope things improve!

 

[GoodDog]

I agree Sdh, I don't understand it.

 

[rolygate]

People should be able to post about health issues without fear of condemnation. Somebody somewhere will be harmed by vaping, and with enough people doing it, that somebody will have several companions. This is simply statistics, there has to be a percentage of people who cannot tolerate the chronic inhalation even of relatively harmless materials. It's just statistics.

If 450,000 smokers a year die from tobacco-smoking related disease in the US, then if all tobacco smokers (thought to be about 20 million plus) changed to an electronic cigarette, there would still be some deaths. 1% of the tobacco deathrate = 4,500; 0.1% = 450; 0.01% = 45. Choose your number - but it is unlikely to be less than 45 and most would say more.

So some people will be harmed as a result, as that's just the way it is. It would be useful to know the exact mechanisms by which those (probably few) people will be harmed, so why not let those who believe they have a concern, air it. Also, if 45 people die, hundreds will be ill, which perhaps makes the causes of more concern to most people.

In the particular case given in this post, it does look as if the subject bears further investigation. Nicotine and the B vitamin group may be linked in several ways. Coincidences happen of course, and the two similar-looking cases at this particular doctor's surgery look interesting.

But, realistically, someone starting to vape on a Friday, causing them to present with a chronic disease linked to long-term vitamin deficiency on the Monday, would not on the face of it seem possible. It would seem difficult to achieve this within a month even if the patient drank a gallon of distilled water per day while eating a diet totally missing the required vitamin and was given drugs to stop auto-creation of the vitamin.

Issues faced by persons naturally predisposed to a deficiency and its consequences, and for those already suffering from the results of a deficiency, are another matter entirely. That, we should consider carefully. It may be that some persons with a potential vitamin deficiency should take this matter more seriously. And for that reason, we ought to welcome contributions of this sort.

It's true that many health issues brought up here are simply the result of a coincidence of timing or something similar. But the statistics hint that some people ought to take these issues seriously, so we should not dismiss all reports out of hand.

 

[shanagan]

Thanks for the backup, everyone.

Roly, I agree that the Fri to Mon seems way too fast. It makes me wonder if she was using the ecig longer and didn't want to "confess" that, or more likely, just a total coincidence.

However, given the fact that a search on Bell's Palsy brought me to the thread linked to in post 2 and my doctor mentioned it - it seemed worth mentioning.

I'd just also like to point out that I've been dealing with this numb/tingly thing for a month (during which time my posting has dropped because it's hard to type) and haven't made ONE claim that vaping has anything to do with it. This was a very specific conversation about nicotine and since I smoked for 28 years without any symptom of b12 deficiency, and nicotine affects b12 levels, it would seem like a relevant post.

 

[shanagan]

I have a neuropathy problem also. Started about two years ago. I noticed it the most when in the shower (numbness). Started in the bottom of my feet and over time went up to my waist and then my hands. In March 2010 my neurosurgeon found low levels of B12 and now I take shots monthly. I quit smoking (smoked a pack a day for decades) and started vaping in April. I have improved over the months so that now it's just in my feet and the fingertips of my left hand. So thanks Shanagan for the post. It's helps to get a different perspective. Wish you the best.

Thanks for posting your experience! Did your doctor ever suggest nicotine as one of the possible causes, or do you have pernicious anemia? (My hemoglobin levels are normal, as is my sedimentation rate so I think we've ruled out PA in my case.) For someone who hadn't been to a doctor in years, all of this is kind of making my head spin, but at the same time, it would seem that some people should be happy I can't type for **** and have been busy googling my OWN stuff, not stuff related to toxic flavorings.

 

[shanagan]

I also had tingling/numbness in my left pinky and ring finger. I thought it was b/c my nails were too long and pinching the flesh since my nails tend to curl under a little. So, I cut them down to the quick. It went away after a couple of months and I ceased wonder what it was. Good energy and prayers sent your way Shan.

Thanks, Seabrook! Mine started in the same place and so I assumed it was from how I sit at the laptop which is on my kitchen counter- when I'm reading I tend to rest my elbow on my counter and I assumed I'd pinched or damaged my ulnar nerve. As it turns out, guess not. lol But even when it spread (w/in two days) I was convinced it was muscular. My doctor literally drew me a diagram of the spinal cord to show why I'd have to have perfectly symmetrical muscle spasms to create paresthesia in the areas I do - and don't.

 

[shanagan]

I had to go on B12 shots long before I started vaping, but I am diabetic and have neuropathy which causes tingling and pain but that is nerve damage from my diabetes. My vaping has not caused more complications to my ailments but has helped my breathing immensely. Neuropathy has no cure and can only be controlled from getting worse by controlling my blood sugar. I walk with a cane or use a mobility scooter to get around and I am only 47 years old. Nobody is taking away my pv.

My stepdad has chronic neuropathy (his is idiopathic, meaning it has no known/shown primary cause) and it just kills me to think this is what he deals with on a daily basis. Honestly I've been a big depressed baby about it, and feel so much for those of you who deal with it on a long-term basis.

Reason #38 I love my doctor, by the way - he didn't ever say anything about quitting vaping. I'm assuming he's letting me draw my own conclusions. Or maybe because I'm on such low nic now he figures any damage can be halted now? I don't know, but for the time being I'm not asking. As for drawing my own conclusions... here I sit with my ego at hand. I think there's a part of me that doesn't want to believe it's related, and if it is, the b12 shots will control it. Also, there's still a good chance that I'm looking at a lesion/tumor on my spinal cord, so until that's ruled out there's no way in hell I'm quitting my security blanket PV.

 

[shanagan]

Thanks for the post. What I really found interesting was the mouth sores. I have had a time with them. I do take B-Complex everyday. As far as tingling and numbness, I have Lupus and that was one of my first symptoms (6 years before it actually presented itself), but I attributed it to smoking(Renaud's Phenomenon).

Best wishes to you!

I thought it was interesting too. I'd also seen mention of shortness of breath being a symptom (I've had minor occurrences recently but brushed it off to longterm smoking damage). Though to be honest, everything seems to be a symptom of b12-deficiency the deeper you dig!

On the subject of lupus, my doctor is looking at that as a possibility as well - I don't have any other symptoms but he's trying his best to get a handle on what's up with me, and ruling out what can (reasonably) be ruled out, in particular because my platelet count was elevated. My sed test was good, now we're waiting on the ANA test to see if my immune system is doing anything funky elsewhere.

ETA: And itching! Itchy skin is a b12 deficiency symptom. (Also itchy tongue, how horrible does THAT sound??)