Nic handling/storing 101

[Bea-FL]

So I ordered mine (100mg) and read through the nic threads but cant find answers to: 1. Do you leave head room in the bottle before you freeze it? 2. Some posters said they diluted down for safer handling. Do most of you do that or not? I'm thinking of keeping a small bottle full strength to draw out of. 3. Mine is coming in an amber glass bottle. Is it safe to put a glass bottle in the freezer?

I am used to handling dangerous solutions from my career in the veterinary profession where we handled euthanasia drugs that can be absorbed through the skin, although it takes a much larger amount of that drug to kill you than of nic. Handling procedures are similar. Actually I noticed my local vape shop doesn't use gloves when drawing nic from their bottle to add to my juice.

 

[Lannie]

I don't use gloves, either. People are so hyped up about "toxicity..." I'm sure the euthanasia drugs are more toxic than 100mg/ml nicotine. Or maybe not. It depends on the delivery. If you were to DRINK that 100mg nic right out of the bottle, I'd imagine that might be able to kill you, but getting some on your skin? No. I get a little bit on my fingers sometimes when I'm mixing, but I just wipe it off like I would if I got flavoring on my fingers, or plain VG, or wet cat food, or anything else. I'm extremely sensitive to inhaled nic (which is odd considering how many packs of cigarettes I used to smoke every day), but I've never gotten any kind of effect from having it on my skin. No tingle, no nic buzz, no nothing.

Do what you're comfortable with, but in my opinion, it's no different than putting bleach in the washer, or Pine-Sol in your mop bucket, or anything of that nature. Use reasonable care. About the only thing I'm really OCD about is making sure the lid is on the bottle EXCEPT when I'm drawing out some to mix in a recipe. But I have a house full of dogs and cats and I like to prevent accidents before they happen. I'd rather my nic bottle were capped if it got knocked over because a big dog ran through the house and crashed into the leg of the kitchen table.

 

[retired1]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid

 

[retired1]

1. Do you leave head room in the bottle before you freeze it? 2. Some posters said they diluted down for safer handling. Do most of you do that or not? I'm thinking of keeping a small bottle full strength to draw out of. 3. Mine is coming in an amber glass bottle. Is it safe to put a glass bottle in the freezer?

1. Yes. Doesn't need much, but leave a little for the small amount of expansion that may occur.
2. You can, but not necessary.
3. Yep. May want to wrap it in bubble wrap as an insurance measure.

 

[mattiem]

How I store my nicotine

I totally agree with Lannie about the dangers

 

[Two_Bears]

So I ordered mine (100mg) and read through the nic threads but cant find answers to: 1. Do you leave head room in the bottle before you freeze it? 2. Some posters said they diluted down for safer handling. Do most of you do that or not? I'm thinking of keeping a small bottle full strength to draw out of. 3. Mine is coming in an amber glass bottle. Is it safe to put a glass bottle in the freezer?

I am used to handling dangerous solutions from my career in the veterinary profession where we handled euthanasia drugs that can be absorbed through the skin, although it takes a much larger amount of that drug to kill you than of nic. Handling procedures are similar. Actually I noticed my local vape shop doesn't use gloves when drawing nic from their bottle to add to my juice.

All i can do us tell you what i did.

1. Break it down into 8 120 ml bottles and set in the freezer and leave very little air space. If there was was 15-45 ml left i poured it in the nic bottle i was using at the time.

2. I used #1 plastic bottles because they handle cold temperartures better

Many here broke it down into smaller glass bottles.

 

[Lannie]

Oh, yeah, I totally skipped over that part of the question! LOL! I put my nic base into smaller amber glass bottles and keep them in a box in the freezer. They don't freeze solid, they just stay cold, which ......s the oxidation process. The bottle I work from is kept in my fridge, and I bring it out to use it, then put it back. Nic base won't expand in the freezer, so you can fill your bottles to almost NO headspace, which is optimal. Air (and light) is the enemy of nicotine, so the less air in each bottle, the longer it will keep.

As far as diluting it before storage, you COULD do that if you wanted to, but then it would take up that much more space in your freezer. I don't think most people dilute it, actually, but maybe a few do, if they're "afraid" of it. That part is totally up to you, and dependent on how much freezer space you have to devote to your nic storage.

 

[Bea-FL]

Oops. Sorry. I didnt know to start this thread here.

 

[LoveVanilla]

I breakdown nic into 60ml amber glass bottles to freeze. This allows you to remove only what you need for near-term mixing. Without a separate freezer, storage space can become an issue, so many do freeze at 100mg strength. I fill the bottle to just below their neck. Though you want to avoid excess oxygen, you do not want a mess when you reopen the bottle. And while it will not freeze, there may be thermal expansion.

Then, as needed, remove a 60ml bottle from the freezer and allow it to warm to room temperature. I then down-mix into three 500ml bottles at my various vape strengths (bottles contain all ingredients except flavors). This reduces handling of 100mg, risks with it around the house, and mixing become quite simple with accuracy acceptable for personal use.

I breakdown and down-mix 100mg nic over an edged cookie sheet and under the stove vent (externally vented) with a nearby sink. Remove distractions (pets, phones, etc.), wear gloves, and use eye protection. Keep paper towels on hand for inevitable drips and a trash bag to take to the dumpster when you finish. This is not the time for bravo; exercise care, cleanliness and safety.

Safe storage is also an important consideration with shared freezer space. Here is a link with my approach. These polypropylene ammo cases are tough as nails, lockable, have an O-ring seal, and are cheap insurance.


(long post; trying to get recommendations into single post. )

 

[Alien Traveler]

Only glass bottles (oxygen can penetrate plastic bottles).
I keep nic for really long time storage in 0.5L bottles (will put it in smaller bottles when I start to use it). Bigger bottles save a lot of space in a freezer. I have 3 120 ml bottles also for near future needs, but one 120 ml bottle will give me 1 year supply of juice (so my "near future" = 3 years).
Leave about 1/4" of head space.
Whether bottles are dark or clear is of no importance in a freezer, but I use dark bottles.
Bigger bottles I keep in a bubble wrap and freezer bags, smaller bottles in a plastic container.
I never dilute nicotine I put in a freezer.

 

[Kurt]

My Long Term Nic Storage sticky should answer many of your questions.

Long Term Nic Storage

Glass + a few mL headspace + freezer = as good as it gets. It will last years, no doubt. Worrying about the O2 in a few mL headspace is not warranted. Expansion, not from freezing but from warming, is possible. I have nic that has been unchanged for almost 7 years, and I expect it will last many more.

 

[Capt.shay]

Hey Kurt, mind if I pose a question? I was usually pretty hung over for my 8:00 AM organic class in college so there is a good chance I am missing something here but........

While I totally agree with leaving a few mm of head space, it really isn't for expansion is it? I understand that vg/pg expands when warmed however, as long as it was bottled at room temperature and then decanted at roughly the same room temperature, the liquid should not expand beyond it's a original level. In my mind, one would have to bottle the Nic. in a walk in freezer and open it in the desert to get enough expansion for it to significantly change the fluid level in the bottle.

Or am I missing something?

 

[mhertz]

The reason I will leave said gap is two stories from ECF; One is kurt got leaking from the cap at sommer when bottled winter, and more alarming, one filled several bottles to pretty high and when almost through with the last bottles, he stated 3 of them or so cracked by themselves... I cant explain the last part, but did for sure made me wanne avoid such a scenerio...

 

[Kurt]

Hey Kurt, mind if I pose a question? I was usually pretty hung over for my 8:00 AM organic class in college so there is a good chance I am missing something here but........

While I totally agree with leaving a few mm of head space, it really isn't for expansion is it? I understand that vg/pg expands when warmed however, as long as it was bottled at room temperature and then decanted at roughly the same room temperature, the liquid should not expand beyond it's a original level. In my mind, one would have to bottle the Nic. in a walk in freezer and open it in the desert to get enough expansion for it to significantly change the fluid level in the bottle.

Or am I missing something?

I filled to the rim bottles in my chilly 60 F kitchen in the winter, and brought a bottle out into my 90+ F office in the summer. It leaked 100 mg VG all over the outside, from under the cap. Also some people warm their bottles of VG-nic to syringe dispense easier. If you want to fill to the rim, be my guest. I don't for the above reason.

 

[Kurt]

The reason I will leave said gap is two stories from ECF; One is kurt got leaking from the cap at sommer when bottled winter, and more alarming, one filled several bottles to pretty high and when almost through with the last bottles, he stated 3 of them or so cracked by themselves... I cant explain the last part, but did for sure made me wanne avoid such a scenerio...

Not had cracking, but I wouldn't doubt it. A large glass bottle holds a large amount of liquid, which will expand more mL than a small amount. And a large bottle tends to be a bit more fragile than a smaller bottle.

Of course you should keep the bottles upright, since the air bubble from headspace will expand as it warms more than the liquid, and with the bottle on its side it could force liquid to leak from under the cap.

The obsession with headspace air is misguided. As I calculated, the amount of O2 present in it is negligible, and on the order of the negligible amount of O2 in the PG/VG. Just not worth worrying about. Even if it all reacts with nic, the result will not be noticeable.

 

[DaveP]

I guess this is as good as any place to ask a nic question.

I received 2 liters of 100mg/ml ni base today from MyFreedomSmokes. After I ordered it I realized by my calculations that at my 3mg nic juice preference those two liters will last me 27.5 years at 200ml a month 3mg/ml juice vaped.

I may not live that long (I recently retired early). It occurred to me that I should have ordered 24mg nic base instead. 2 liters of that will last 6.5 years and the exposure hazard is much less. The first 4 or 5 years I vaped I bought 24mg juice and sometimes got juice on my hands and in the mouth from a flooded atomizer.

If you read the precautions on the 100mg Nic Bottle it will worry the heck out of you. They recommend headgear, gloves, a fume hood, and a body covering like a shop coat. Apparently, inhaling fumes is a serious hazard and skin contact enters the blood stream.

So, what are the real hazards I should worry about? I know I should have a ventilated area, gloves, clothes that protect my skin, and a sink to wash it off if it gets on my skin. Kitchens aren't a good place since a counter top spill could cause serious contamination. I'll probably mix in my basement workshop, but there's not a sink there and it would be below the level of my plumbing drain, so I couldn't really add one. There is a water spigot right outside the basement door, though. It's a good place to wash up and the runoff would control insects around the basement door!

I'm thinking about selling one or both liters of 100mg nic to someone through the local vape shop and ordering 24mg nic base.

Thoughts?

 

[Nermal]

I'm thinking about selling the 2 liters of 100mg nic to someone through the local vape shop and ordering 24mg nic base.

Thoughts?

No technical thoughts, Dave, but I'm very defensive. If some uneducated buyer had a problem with your nic, how would you prove it were unaltered from your vendor? I keep thinking of all the alleged physical problems people post after trying vaping.

 

[dannyv45]

I guess this is as good as any place to ask a nic question.

I received 2 liters of 100mg/ml ni base today from MyFreedomSmokes. After I ordered it I realized by my calculations that at my 3mg nic juice preference those two liters will last me 27.5 years at 200ml a month 3mg/ml juice vaped.

I may not live that long (I recently retired early). It occurred to me that I should have ordered 24mg nic base instead. 2 liters of that will last 6.5 years and the exposure hazard is much less. The first 4 or 5 years I vaped I bought 24mg juice and sometimes got juice on my hands and in the mouth from a flooded atomizer.

If you read the precautions on the 100mg Nic Bottle it will worry the heck out of you. They recommend headgear, gloves, a fume hood, and a body covering like a shop coat. Apparently, inhaling fumes is a serious hazard and skin contact enters the blood stream.

So, what are the real hazards I should worry about. I know I should have a ventilated area, gloves, clothes that protect my skin, and a sink to wash it off if it gets on my skin. Kitchens aren't a good place since a counter top spill could cause serious contamination. I'll probably mix in my basement workshop, but there's not a sink there and it would be below the level of my plumbing drain, so I couldn't really add one.

I'm thinking about selling the 2 liters of 100mg nic to someone through the local vape shop and ordering 24mg nic base.

Thoughts?

Dave,

You've been around here a while and DYI'ing for a while as well. Why all of a sudden the concern?

What your describing sounds like precautions for pure 1000mg NIC and not 100mg NIC.

I've worked with 100mg nic for over 3 years and from time to time I do get some on my hands. I wash it off quickly and have never had any adverse reactions to it. Unless your hyper sensitive to NIC using sensible precautions and common sense is all that's needed. If you are hypersensitive then you should not be handling NIC of any strength. As far as fumes I've never noticed any fumes of any kind from 100mg nic. I work at a desk in a room with normal household ventilation and never had an issue with fumes. I don't wear latex gloves and only wear eye glasses (prescription) but wearing latex gloves is always good practice.. I would recommend eye protection because I've had 100mg nic splash in my eye and although there were no perminent effects it did sting like hell. I don't think you need to worry about catastrophic damage if it took you a few extra moments to leave your workshop to get upstairs and wash it off your skin. If you have a spill don't let it linger, clean it up right away and do wear gloves if it's a big spill. A bucket of water in your workshop isn't a bad idea either for rinsing your hands or a quick cleanup.
I in fact have let it linger on my skin a minute or so it may have taken me to complete what ever it was I was doing. Most important is keep it out of reach of children and pets as you would with any household chemical.
I think to many people cause way to much unnessessary hysteria about NIC. Short of drinking it straight a little on your hands is not that much of a worry. Just wash it off and don't over think all this safety just use common sense.

 

[DaveP]

No technical thoughts, Dave, but I'm very defensive. If some uneducated buyer had a problem with your nic, how would you prove it were unaltered from your vendor? I keep thinking of all the alleged physical problems people post after trying vaping.

It's sealed with a black shrink wrap at the top and I have the original receipt dated about 4 days ago. USPS delivered it on Saturday. For a $10 discount I could probably sell it easily, especially since the vape shop owner knows me well and could vouch for my character.

I've read lots of text over the last couple of weeks about 100mg/ml DIY and it's mostly the fact that a liter of that strength will make 33 liters of 3mg/ml juice. That's 9 years worth of juice at about 10ml a day. I have two liters of 100mg nic base, so that's 18 years worth.

I just don't need that much, even with the FDA playing games. I'll probably keep one liter and check into selling the other through the local vape shop. The owner is a long time ECF member who will probably know someone who will buy the 2nd liter at a discount.

I'll probably break one liter down into four 24mg liter bottles and freeze it, then sell the other unopened. 24mg was my original vape strength and I feel comfortable working with that considering the nephews (6 and 11) will be around the house from time to time. We keep them after school here and there. For the last few years we picked them up every day from school and Mom came by about 5 to take them home. Now, they are in an after school program every day and we won't see them as much.

If I can't sell the 2nd liter, then I'll buy a dedicated freezer with a lock and store it. I'll just break it all down to 24mg and freeze it. It's just that I don't see needing more than one of those liters.

 

[Eskie]

Even though you feel you might not need a second liter, there can be accidents with the stuff you keep (folks do occasionally drop things, and if it's a glass bottle it will likely break). If you do lose some of your initial liter to some event, having the second gives you a buffer to replace that loss. Obviously do whatever you're most comfortable with, but I wouldn't use the probability of never getting to the second liter as reason enough to sell/donate it.