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Nicotine absorbtion from vaping research

Discussion in 'Medical Research' started by Kate, May 1, 2009.

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  1. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    [FONT=Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I've been in touch with:

    Thomas Eissenberg, Ph.D.
    Professor of Psychology
    Institute for Drug and Alcohol Studies
    Virginia Commonwealth University

    Dr Eissenberg sent me a message today after his return from a conference in Ireland. As he is conducting research on blood nicotine levels with vaping I had asked him for some results. He doesn't have any himself yet but said Ruyan's team came up with this:

    [/FONT][FONT=Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"... Bullen, Glover, Laugesen, Lin, McRobbie, and Thornley report that after 9 participants used the Ruyan device (16 mg cartridge) for 5 minutes, peak plasma nicotine concentration was 1.3 ng/ml (95% confidence interval = 0.0 to 2.6). In contrast, for those same participants, a cigarette produced a peak plasma nicotine concentration of 13.4 ng/ml (95% CI = 6.5-20)."

    Then he went on to say:

    "These data, if they are valid and can be replicated, provide little support to the manufacturers' claim that the devices can do what they are marketed to do: deliver a physiologically active nicotine dose to the lung.
    [/FONT]"

    I am glad that we now have the first statistics on actual absorption of nicotine from vaping. This result is surprising to me though, it appears that 16mg nicotine eliquid gives a tenth of the nicotine to the bloodstream after five minutes vaping as a cigarette.
     
  2. Caesarea

    Caesarea Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2009
    UK
    Hi Kate,

    Are you able to say how this might affect our ideas on estimating equivalency of dose when switching over to vaping from smoking?

    C.
     
  3. blueeyekelly

    blueeyekelly Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2009
    all ove the USA
    Again who said it is the nicotine that us smokers are actully after?
     
  4. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    This throws all our current comparisons off track C., I don't know what we can say about this for swappers.

    I don't even know how it's possible that many of us have been able to overdose if these figures are reliable.
     
  5. Caesarea

    Caesarea Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2009
    UK
    There may be significant differences between absorption via lung tissue and absorption via the mouth - I suggest that because I certainly do not draw in vapor as deep as I used to draw in smoke. Perhaps the route travelled by nicotine or other chemicals is longer via the lungs.

    I guess this means that paying close attention to one's reactions is more important than arithmetical calculations to determine input, especially where input varies so much depending on how the vaper inhales.

    I think I read somewhere that Yale are also engaged on this type of research for Next Safety. I don't suppose they will be disclosing their findings, though.

    Adding the source in edit;

    http://www.nextsafety.com/

    extract:
    Start quote:
    Next Safety has particularly shown that its pulmonary devices deliver nicotine with a far greater efficacy than other nicotine replacement products. While previous nicotine replacement products, such as nicotine gum and patches (a $1.6 billion global market), have helped millions of smokers worldwide, they cannot equal the power of nicotine that is delivered through an actual smoked cigarette. The result is that most smokers succumb to the need for a ‘nicotine hit’ by smoking again.

    The ultimate solution in nicotine replacement treatment would therefore be the rapid delivery of nicotine directly to the lungs and brain in the same manner as a cigarette, but without the 4,000 harmful chemicals that exist in tobacco particles.

    Cigarette sales in 2006 exceeded $200 billion in developed countries where strong trends to eliminate smoking inside work establishments and all public areas are firmly entrenched. Moreover, Next Safety projects that the cost of nicotine delivered by its pulmonary devices will be between 5% to 10% of the price currently paid by smokers in the United States for an equivalent blood nicotine dose.

    Next Safety’s ongoing applied research program is currently focused on the pulmonary delivery of nicotine, albuterol and tobramycin. Yale University and the Company’s tobacco addiction/cessation expert, Matthew Bars (MS, CTTS), director of Smoking Cessation for the New York Fire Department, are currently engaged in the development of a research protocol aimed at demonstrating the lung and brain uptake of nicotine from Next Safety’s pulmonary drug delivery platform. In addition, the Veterans Administration has asked Next Safety to participate in a study that includes the evaluation of inhaled nicotine utilizing the Company’s devices. This research will use various analytical techniques including certain brain imaging technology to study the effects of “clean” nicotine delivery via the Company’s pulmonary drug delivery platform.

    Next Safety believes the sale of the business to a leading pharmaceutical company will accelerate the deployment of this new technology. Large pharmaceutical firms possess the necessary expertise and development, manufacturing and distribution capabilities required to optimize current present value of Next Safety technology, while bringing lifesaving technology to market in a rapid and worldwide manner. End quote.

    Seems like a similar aim for the research...perhaps a different outcome though..

    C
     
  6. Skad

    Skad Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2009
    Biloxi, MS
    I think it's possible, because I don't think very many people vape the way they smoke. I certainly don't. I take many more drags off my ecigs then I ever took off of my regular cigs per day. I think you'd have to find a way to measure this over a longer stretch of time in order to get valid data.
     
  7. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    This correlates well with my personal experience. I still get nothing remotely resembling a cigarette nic hit when vaping 36mg liquid. Dr. Loi wrote me in an email that he uses 40mg liquid. I calculated I'd need at least 80mg to be satisfied -- but the liquid would be too dangerous to even handle!

    Many thanks for your efforts, Kate. I know they were unexpected by you, based on prior posts. For me, I do know that when I combine heavy nicotine snus with e-smoking, I do just fine. I like the feel and visuals of e-smoking too much to want to give it up. But I get more nic from the snus.
     
  8. Caesarea

    Caesarea Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2009
    UK
    Hi Skad,
    Do you inhale the vapor as deeply as when you were smoking?
    When I vape, the vapor is circulating mainly around the soft palate and the nasal passages, and often reminds me of how I used to smoke a pipe when I was a student. Much puffing and sucking but really quite little deep inhalation.

    C.
     
  9. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    One more thought, based on this quote:

    One of the FDA's definitions of a drug, which they claim e-liquid is, is that it produces a psychological and physiological effect. Ha. I get neither -- and these tests bring into question whether the effect is any greater than a placebo or pure PG would provide. Some manufacturer might turn this to their advantage, claiming e-liquid does NOT meet the definition of a drug as presently constituted.
     
  10. Skad

    Skad Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2009
    Biloxi, MS
    Indeed, I use more of a pipe/cigar style inhale as opposed to a cig inhale.
     
  11. Caesarea

    Caesarea Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2009
    UK
    Well, the piece of research showing why vaping has caught by surprise so many heavy smokers who made the transition almost without thinking will indeed be worth reading one day..


    :)
     
  12. rejoice

    rejoice Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 30, 2008
    USA KY
    I can believe this report is true. I buy the best e-cigs and still struggle to quit analogs.
    I buy high nicotine liquid too. I am not smoking many analogs,but still cannot quit them.
     
  13. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    I had really wondered if I could be getting the same amount of nicotine because if I do have a cigarette now it actually gives me quite a high.
     
  14. Caesarea

    Caesarea Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2009
    UK

    Hi Pete,
    :)
    I don't think I'd need more than one puff to feel disorientated, always supposing that it wasn't as disgusting as my last ciggie was 8 weeks ago. I imagine that it would be possible to reverse the process with a bit of persistence and return to being a heavy smoker, but I think it would be fairly unpleasant.

    I spend a lot of time vaping zero or low now. But the experiences of forum members with these issues seem to be amazingly varied.

    C
     
  15. Tom09

    Tom09 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2009
    Germany
    Links to an abstract of the referenced study (Bullen et al.) have been put up [thread=15038] here [/thread].
    Assuming the prelimnary reported results will be demonstrated to be valid, there’s indeed two questions, a) what this quantitative data on ecigs would imply for quitters, and b) what it means for legal regulation issues.
     
  16. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    Hi Caesarea :)...it is rather interesting because when I tried very low tar cigarettes they just didn't satisfy my cravings, I could have one after the other and still not feel satisfied and yet vaping 36 mg certainly seems to take away the craving for me (which I don't think would be the case if it was nothing more than the placebo effect of mimicking the habit)...... and as you say peoples experiences on here do seem so amazingly varied so there isn't any one shoe fits all theory.
     
  17. Caesarea

    Caesarea Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2009
    UK
    Yes I can empathise there cos I got up to 40 a day of S.C. Blue :rolleyes:
    Come Back Gold Leaf all is forgiven...;) Or even Woodbine...


    Yes I will have a puff or two of high nic when I feel bored, and it certainly seems to impart a pleasant buzz of some sort...


    C.
     
  18. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    Woah......yes caesarea bring back the woodbines ....lol. .....those were back in the good old days when we were blissfully happy in our ignorance and weren't convinced we were going to die tomorrow from smoking a cigarette.
     
  19. Nuck

    Nuck Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 14, 2009
    Ontario, Canada
    This makes WAY more sense than the previous numbers tossed around the forums.
     
  20. exogenesis

    exogenesis Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2009
    UK
    This doesn't sound at all right from my experience
    (not that I've measured my blood levels).

    The reason I've reduced vaping & re-increased real ciggies
    (apart from needing morning 'quick-fix relief-of-symptoms' i.e. nicotine craving).
    is because I'm sure I was getting a massive amount more
    nicotine (but not the fast-acting free-base form given by cigs).

    Maybe I over-vaped (24 mg liquid) to compensate for the 'wrong' form of nicotine,
    (and to stop me reaching for the cig carton),
    but it's fairly obvious that I was mildly 'buzzing'
    all the time but without real satisfaction.

    In fact I often felt overdosed & nauseous, & this might even have put me off going
    to work once or twice.
    (ever tried a full inhale from 4 x 901' s at once? - don't, I almost passed out).

    Hmmm, might get one of those 'cotine' self-test diagnostic kits.

    Will be very interested when Dr Eissenberg has some quantitative results.
     
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