Nicotine Myth Busted - Nicotine does not cause adiction IMO

[markfm]

If you want to cut nic, try doing it in 1 - 2 mg steps, a step every couple weeks. Easy as a diy person, but even with commercial eliquid it is simple to mix batches at different mg, as long as the flavors match.

2 parts 18 & 1 part 12 = 16
Equal parts 18 & 12 = 15
1 part 18 & 2 parts 12 = 14

Start with a couple ounces each of 18 & 12, the above gives 3 intermediate mg to help you cut from 18 to 12.

(Sorry for the diversion, but being able to cut your mg is a good thing if you wish to, & there is no need to take big step sizes.)

 

[Spazmelda]

The only reference I can give, in all seriousness is "cuz Roly said so". There is the link to his post there.

Yes, I read through the link. I googled and couldn't find anything else. It'se not that I doubt it, I'd just like to know more.

Regarding nicotine, I do kind of believe that it's probably not as addictive as common knowledge would have us think. It would take some further study to nail that down. E-cigs could probably be a very useful tool in teasing out the addictive qualities of nicotine versus cigarette smoke.

 

[chips]

From my own reading around about what was in tobacco cigarettes when I was trying to quit, I came to the conclusion that nicotine was not the problem making it so hard to quit. The real problem was a chemical called "harmine". harmine is present in tobacco smoke and harmine is a powerful MAOI anti depressant.

So guess what, you try and quit tobacco and you are going to feel really low and what will fix that...more harmine..more tobacco!

I believe that most tobacco smokers are more dependant on harmine than any of the other chemicals in tobacco smoke, as it regulates mood.

Oddly enough..wikipedias page on tobacco used to mention harmine, it has been edited out and is now only mentioned in the "talk" section with people asking why has such a relevant fact been removed....harmine is found naturally in tobacco.

 

[Striker911]

Oh I was chain vaping 24 for a month then 18 then 12 and so on. I had to keep a tank full of the lower # to vape all day and I would drip some heavier stuff when ever I would need to. It took like 3 months to get down here. I also have a frankenstein collection of mixed juices, because I have to keep buying lower content to cut what I have to a useable #. The good part is I have buckets of juice.

Oh ya lol. I have that one bottle of juice that never gets empty. Take a juice I don't like and mix it with others I don't like. Will it ever end......
One thing I can say is I keep getting lucky. They always turn out better for some reason but still not ideal.

If you want to cut nic, try doing it in 1 - 2 mg steps, a step every couple weeks. Easy as a diy person, but even with commercial eliquid it is simple to mix batches at different mg, as long as the flavors match.

2 parts 18 & 1 part 12 = 16
Equal parts 18 & 12 = 15
1 part 18 & 2 parts 12 = 14

Start with a couple ounces each of 18 & 12, the above gives 3 intermediate mg to help you cut from 18 to 12.

(Sorry for the diversion, but being able to cut your mg is a good thing if you wish to, & there is no need to take big step sizes.)

Good idea. Take a 30ml bottle and cut it two MG'S, then two more less on the next one. Bet I can do that with relative ease. Will try that till I hit the tilting point and vape 2mg higher till I get use to it. Really, NIC is the highest cost in DIY so it would be another great benny to cut it out entirely or even just reduce it. I buy 100MG and it goes a long way at even 18MG.

 

[kwalka]

I posted the abridged version of my reduction. It was more like your incremental mg/ml theory. I would keep a tank of juice that was reduced by 6-8 mg below my norm for all day chain vape, and if I started to get a bit antsy I would take a couple of rips off the norm level stuff. So slowly over a few months I brought it down. I will say this, If I take 1-2 rips off of 24mg juice now it almost makes my head spin off my shoulders. (kinda cool)

@Chips,
5 yrs ago I went cold turkey over night from almost 3 PAD, and for 8 months I felt likw I had lost a part of myself. It was very strange. I believe it was such a shock on my system that it created long term effects. As soon as I started again I quickly became myself again. Luckily, actually not luckily, thankfully for e cigs, I am just the same guy I always was with no wierded out feelings like I am missing a limb or something.
We went into great length about this subject in the thread titled Lorillard purchases Blu. It is a very long thread but if you have the time its very interesting, as it focuses a lot on BT getting into the e cig game.

 

[KDude]

I'm not a good monitor of when I have bad moods, per se. I'm always moody in a way. Withdrawing from cigs was always more of a physical affair. A kind of restlessness or antsy feeling. The moods were a side effect of that. I was more irritable if I didn't smoke. Not depressed.

 

[Turnip]

From my own reading around about what was in tobacco cigarettes when I was trying to quit, I came to the conclusion that nicotine was not the problem making it so hard to quit. The real problem was a chemical called "harmine". harmine is present in tobacco smoke and harmine is a powerful MAOI anti depressant.

So guess what, you try and quit tobacco and you are going to feel really low and what will fix that...more harmine..more tobacco!

I believe that most tobacco smokers are more dependant on harmine than any of the other chemicals in tobacco smoke, as it regulates mood.
Oddly enough..wikipedias page on tobacco used to mention harmine, it has been edited out and is now only mentioned in the "talk" section with people asking why has such a relevant fact been removed....harmine is found naturally in tobacco.

I'm with you there Chips,
Lots of various alkaloids in the Nightshades and Tobacco leaf has the most-
Some vapers only get relief from cravings when the put the WTA's in their juice,
I didnt know anything about Harmine, but what you say makes sense-
People seem to have different degrees of addiction to Tobacco - I've known some heavy smokers to just walk away with few cravings while others struggle for years and fail. Listening to non smokers ranting about how smokers only need will power to quit shows how little they understand,
If it was only Nicotine, patches would fix the addiction, but for many they dont.. Pharma Companies know this very well.

 

[TheBlueAdept]

First off I just wanted to note how ironic it is that the substance mentioned above as being an addictive factor of a harmful product is called HARMine. My apologies if this was noted and I missed it.

I too have managed to step down to 6mg over two years, starting at 18-24, stepping down one or two of four juices in rotation by 4 each month or so till I got all of them down. I chain vape like a disco club, but I've done that at all mg levels as well as back in my analog past.... While I'm no longer worried about my nic usage , I plan to bring it down to 0 with occasional 4 or 6 for stress/anxiety relief as needed. I'm in no hurry, which I think helps; no deadline, just gradual progress at my own pace.

Sent from my phone; Please excuse typos / autocorrections.

 

[Vocalek]

I looked on PubMed for "harmine" and "addiction".

Role of acetaldehyde in tobacco smo... [Eur Neuropsychopharmacol. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

This one gives a clue as to why quitting smoking often makes people hostile and aggressive. Relationship of monoamine oxidase A binding to a... [Psychol Med. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

And this one explains how elevated MAO-A levels contribute to depression. [NOTE: MAO Inhibitors such as harmine help to lower these levels.]
Elevated monoamine oxidase a levels in t... [Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

(Which makes me question the wisdom of outlawing the use of tobacco in prison populations and mental health facilities.)

 

[sherid]

I looked on PubMed for "harmine" and "addiction".


(Which makes me question the wisdom of outlawing the use of tobacco in prison populations and mental health facilities.)

But, anti-smokers are eugenists, and the focus of their movement is to rid the world of the "impure" among us. Should those in prison or mental health facilities turn on one another due to loss of tobacco privileges, then all is as planned by the movement. Just saves them the chore of elimination and promotes the idea within society that the weak willed, the insane, the criminal element are the only ones among us who choose to smoke. Double whammy for the anti-smokers.

 

[Turnip]

How do they get around anti discrimination laws when the discrimination against smokers, and only smokers, is so blatant?,
Banning smoking in the workplace is, at a stretch, understandable ,
Testing job applicants urine for nicotine is an outrage, imho.

 

[Screwbag]

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats

This study suggests that nicotine is only addictive with other substances playing a part...

For my own experience, I don't feel cravings like I had with cigarettes. Like if I'm out of juice, or a battery dies...I'm kinda, well, just, meh... but with analogs, I craved constantly, I'd be cranky if I ran out, increasingly so until I finally lit up...I just HAD to smoke, as opposed to just thinking...meh, I have juice at home...

I really think that if anything, I'm addicted to the ritual more than the nicotine. I love puffing, blowing out that cloud and contemplating the swirls in the air.

But if I don't get my morning coffee, i get a mild headache around lunch, and I'm cranky...

 

[Turnip]

Some very interesting links there Screwbag.
Thanks so much for posting ...

 

[Screwbag]

Some very interesting links there Screwbag.
Thanks so much for posting ...

No prob. I come from a family with 2 doctors, and a vet. And I have extensive medical training as well.
So I have a tendency to read medical reports on stuff that interests me.

 

[TheBlueAdept]

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats

This study suggests that nicotine is only addictive with other substances playing a part...

For my own experience, I don't feel cravings like I had with cigarettes. Like if I'm out of juice, or a battery dies...I'm kinda, well, just, meh... but with analogs, I craved constantly, I'd be cranky if I ran out, increasingly so until I finally lit up...I just HAD to smoke, as opposed to just thinking...meh, I have juice at home...

I really think that if anything, I'm addicted to the ritual more than the nicotine. I love puffing, blowing out that cloud and contemplating the swirls in the air.

But if I don't get my morning coffee, i get a mild headache around lunch, and I'm cranky...

Same here.. I've left home in the wife's car for trips of an hour or two and now am thankfully at the 'meh' state after the initial default 'oh crap' response. Been totally fine as well. Now, if it became stressful it would be different, but not sure what part of that is need vs habit to be honest...

Sent from my phone; Please excuse typos / autocorrections.

 

[sherid]

At this point, I continue to smoke a few cigs a day simply to avoid becoming an anti smoker.

 

[Turnip]

If the interfering busybody antismoking activists really were interested in helping people stop smoking then one would think they would embrace ecigs with open arms chanting "how wonderful are these" ! Not the case of course,
Having succeeded in winding anti nicotine hysteria to unbelievable levels, they have failed to explain how the smoking rate has dropped but lung cancer/ heart disease is increasing,
Other factors are involved-its not only about cigarettes- for instance..
BBC News - Diesel exhausts do cause cancer, says WHO
Looking at the total picture isnt the activists thing.

 

[Vocalek]

Carl Phillips has an alternate name for such activists: Hacktivists.

 

[DaveP]

Yep, nicotine is not the only thing, it's just one of the addictive substances in cigarettes. MAOI is responsible for the calming effect.

This is your brain on nicotine

 

[TheBlueAdept]

Carl Phillips has an alternate name for such activists: Hacktivists.

I thought hactivists were hackers who hacked for a cause.

Sent from my phone; Please excuse typos / autocorrections.