Nicotine not addictive? Yeah right!

[Foggyroomz]

Addictive not addictive either way it is a stimulant that gives people a pick me up when they need it and to be honest I can say that it isn't the chemicals alone that are addictive but the ritual in which it is introduced into the body and those attributes that lend to the dependency as well. Think about this when you were a smoker and were stressed out you would fire up take a nice long drag sit back then exhale which was the release was it a nicotine craving at that moment that you needed to satisfy no it was the deep breathe in and the exhale and maybe the sight of the smoke relaxed you as well because it broke the focal point of what was stressing you out. Smoking and vaping are a meditation outlet of sorts because it takes you away from that intent focus that was overtaxing you. The chemical addiction comes with extended use of the outlet it never really was the nicotine that you craved but that moment of release and hence why quitting smoking is very difficult because it is a form of therapy if you think about it why are their so many patch failures,and why do other NRT not work because they are treating the nicotine symptom and not the ritualistic practice of the addiction.

 

[rhean]

There is a debate because plenty of people have done the same thing you did, but with opposite outcomes.
And also because there is more and more research showing that it is not really all that addictive.

The best policy is to assume it affects everyone differently...
Just like many other things in life.

I agree that it affects everyone differently.

Also, can you point to some studies? lol I'm open to changing my mind, but I need to be convinced, and don't have the energy to trudge through 37 pages.

 

[Jman8]

...it takes time to get addicted. A person who only smokes over the weekend, maybe in social situations, is likely not addicted to nicotine.

Anyone can go cold turkey from any substance; that it can be done doesn't mean the substance is not addictive.

Anyone can, consciously or unconsciously, wean themselves off an addictive substance.

You went from, "It's VERY addictive." to "doesn't mean the substance is not addictive."

That's a fairly significant leap. I ask "what substance is not addictive?" Someone may respond with, oh I dunno, how about bananas. Bananas are not addictive, someone might say. But if I find people that are very addicted to it, I could claim "very addictive" or even "VERY addictive." And someone else could say they can go a whole year without missing eating a banana. To which I could say, Anyone can go cold turkey from any substance; that it can be done doesn't mean the substance is not addictive.

Therefore bananas are addictive.

Like every other substance on the planet. Just cause you might find people who are not addicted to it, doesn't mean it is not (very) addictive.

Methinks "nicotine is very addictive" because we've had that hammered away on us forever and a day and lead to believe that an addiction to nicotine is a very bad thing. All whilst not really having a truly serious debate with those who espouse the view "smoking kills."

 

[DC2]

Also, can you point to some studies? lol I'm open to changing my mind, but I need to be convinced, and don't have the energy to trudge through 37 pages.

Click on this link and you'll find some various studies...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...le-health-benefits-nicotine.html#post14462288

 

[Coldrake]

But wheat can kill you, or at least has been shown to cause serious health problems in humans.

YI think you're missing the entire point behind avoiding wheat and grains. Its not so much about weight loss as it is mainly about the serious diseases and autoimmunity associated with humans trying to digest grains. People were never meant to consume grains.

Human beings have been eating grains for at least 30,000 years and we've managed to survive just fine.

Excuse me while I go have some cannelloni and a cheesy bagel.

 

[fogging_katrider]

Human beings have been eating grains for at least 30,000 years and we've managed to survive just fine.

Excuse me while I go have some cannelloni and a cheesy bagel.

Obviously you havent been paying any attention as evidenced by your bringing up the last 30k years and tossing in your rude little joke...whatever floats your boat eat whatever you'd like Coldrake and enjoy it, sounds tasty.

The wheat (and other grains and gmo's) we have been comsuming, for the past thirty years...are not your grand mothers wheat and grains. They didnt have mutated wheat and genetically modified grains 30k years ago...or epidemic levels of autoimmune diseases.

You are ignoring what science and medicine is discovering today about why and how modern wheat is the major contributor to high cholesterol (spikes your triglycerides like no other food), heart disease and more importantly autoimmune diseases and inflammatory disease which has spiked in the population over that exact three decades, along with an epidemic of obesity and heart disease. Probably the main cause of aszheimers disease and heart disease which will continue to take lifes of those who ignore the current science.

But you go right ahead and enjoy that cannelloni while you still think you have your good health
Never mind the cholesterol hike and other silent body and brain killers involved, it's your life.

 

[johnspack]

Nicotine is only one addictive ingredient in tobacco. There are 4 others. Nicotine is rather benign, and can be easily quit once you quit the others. I don't have time to link them all here, here's my webpage with the addictives, and what they do:
Dangers of tobacco

 

[fogging_katrider]

But wheat can kill you, or at least has been shown to cause serious health problems in humans. So why do organizations like the American Heart Association try to claim it as heart healthy when in fact it has been shown to be the opposite? Is it big agriculture and big food that want us to stay addicted to it, not to mention big pharm making a fortune on our illness from eating wheat and grains...hmmm think about it folks.

This quoted text is the bigger point which I opened my post about wheat with.

Point being, vapeing is saving thousands of lifes by helping people quit cigarettes. It has the potential to save millions of lives just in the USA, yet the FDA would rather ignore such facts. Working instead in favor of big tobacco and govermnent tobacco taxes.

The situation is very similar for Wheat and grains, the AMA, AHA, and ADA are following obsolete old science that has been proven to be wrong.... the dietary guidelines provided to us by the FDA and the USDA. These guidelines are about the deep pockets of big agribusiness, big food and the big pharmaceutical company lobbiests keeping their friends in government happy fat and rich.

No matter what modern scientific studies show about nicotine use being non harmful, maybe even good for our health and brains, it will not equate to helping our cause. It will not stop the nanny's in government from ignoring facts in favor of fiction. Its all about government being able to control, regulate and tax it, even if it means handing total control of e-juice over to BP and BT.

Whether nic is addictive or not, means nothing... its just something ANTZ and the FDA gov nannys, BT and BP will continue to use to demonize smokers and vaping. And it will work for the most part, because by nature people tend to believe stereotypes no matter how false they've been proven to be.... like "heart healthy whole grain"

 

[beckdg]

And it will work for the most part, because by nature people tend to believe stereotypes no matter how false they've been proven to be.... like "heart healthy whole grain"

The funny (sad) part we all do it. Even those of us who by our very nature challenge the status quo. There's just so much misinformation in life. Who can keep it all straight. With everyone so busy in day to day life, we all choose what information is important for us to seek out and what we allow to be spoon fed to us.

We set our information priorities.

And with a predisposition or specific goal it's too easy to get sucked into the wrong info/choices even on topics we've set high on our priority list. Even worse when immediate results seem to be suggesting we've validated our position in lieu of our long term goals and results.

Sent from my device.

 

[Jman8]

Whether nic is addictive or not, means nothing... its just something ANTZ and the FDA gov nannys, BT and BP will continue to use to demonize smokers and vaping. And it will work for the most part, because by nature people tend to believe stereotypes no matter how false they've been proven to be.... like "heart healthy whole grain"

I highly disagree that by nature people tend to believe stereotypes, but admittedly, I'm being highly critical on the term nature. In my experience, when you challenge people (in person) on their stereotypes, it can, rather quickly, go the other way. I think they (or we) realize that we are doing this to ourselves rather than the stereotype reinforcing the (false) thinking.

I do find that it depends a little bit on the stereotype, but more than this, it depends on what that is leading to, or what is it for. If it is for attack/demonization, it is meant (by nature) to be undone. It is clearly not science that is doing the demonizing, but if the perception is there that science is playing a role in that sort of thinking (which historically popular science has played a role), then science is not the way to resolve the actual problem. The problem being pre-judgment on 'what is this for' and then compounded by other issues / problems (illusions) of superiority or guilt, to name a couple.

I find the solution is knowable and obvious, but challenging to put into words that work for everyone, and easy to play devil's advocate when it is put into words.

The path, or arena, in which the solution can be discovered is philosophy or critical thinking on the presented problem. Philosophy is not the word I would use when talking about knowledge for the solution, but is a good discipline (of mind) to help understand that there is a solution.

And being philosophical about what ANTZ is about, what they are for, and challenging what they (or again we) are basing principles on, does help.

Demonizing smokers and vapers doesn't have a leg to stand on. Tis not natural. And is rather easy to challenge. Plus, it can be entertaining.

 

[Altaire Versailles]

Hi Guys

It often comes up in replies to posts that nicotine is not addictive, or that there are studies that suggest that it isn't. I find that rather strange, to me it has DENIAL written all over it. I know there are substances other than nicotine that may also be addictive which explains why it is so difficult to quit smoking. However, I am still convinced nicotine is the main culprit. If nicotine is not addictive surely it must be possible to stop vaping cold turkey? How many of you would be able to do that? I know I couldn't. I know smoking addiction is a complex thing but I can't imagine having to go without my nic. Quitting vaping is definitely not on my radar at the moment, and probably not ever.

How do you feel about this?

Cheers.

Chris

There definitely are more than a few people here in denial that there is ANY kind of downside to anything that has to do with vaping but I think thats pretty much a scientifically proven fact about nic being addictive. It could be that the effect is a lot stronger with cigarettes than with vaping nic.

It does provide a benefit in that it focuses and stimulates you so the effect could be more psychological than physiological, anything you enjoy doing is going to be addictive. So I dunno were still waiting on some hard science on it.

 

[Jman8]

So I dunno were still waiting on some hard science on it.

In the year 3014, they will still be saying this.

 

[Altaire Versailles]

In the year 3014, they will still be saying this.

Well you can make predictions about what vaping would do but until you have data on people who vape having similar reactions to accumulative damage from something, if that were to occur, I mean you cant say much conclusively about it. Maybe vaping at higher wattages is worse. Maybe a certain type of flavoring is harmful. Maybe these things are harmful in certain amounts or over certain periods of time. I mean my aunt has a lifelong condition caused by vitamin C from drinking too much orange juice as a child. The human body changes based on everything you put in it, sometimes those are subtle affects and changes, sometimes not so much. Sometimes those subtle changes cant affect something in a way that is fatal. Thats why I say wait for the evidence before we say anything about it. It seems that it would be better than smoking for us. May not be true for some reason.

 

[bluecat]

Well you can make predictions about what vaping would do but until you have data on people who vape having similar reactions to accumulative damage from something, if that were to occur, I mean you cant say much conclusively about it. Maybe vaping at higher wattages is worse. Maybe a certain type of flavoring is harmful. Maybe these things are harmful in certain amounts or over certain periods of time. I mean my aunt has a lifelong condition caused by vitamin C from drinking too much orange juice as a child. The human body changes based on everything you put in it, sometimes those are subtle affects and changes, sometimes not so much. Sometimes those subtle changes cant affect something in a way that is fatal. Thats why I say wait for the evidence before we say anything about it. It seems that it would be better than smoking for us. May not be true for some reason.

Considering the only way nicotine was introduced through the body was through smoking, one could not really separate the smoking and nicotine. Yes, I know dip and chew... personally I thought that stuff was nasty when I tried it.

I can say there are vegetable that contain nicotine as well... I do not believe anyone is addicted to those after eating them except for extremely rare cases.

I am not saying or have I ever said that vaping is good for ones body. I believe it is less harmful than smoking and use it such. Choose your poison... I will choose mine. When my choice is forceably taken from me... that ticks me off. Especially from a 9% favorable official siting at a desk in Washington with a cigarette dangling from hisher mouth endorsing his/her pet lobbyist check that came in the mail.

 

[bluecat]

In the year 3014, they will still be saying this.

Is it Global warming or Global cooling this decade?

 

[Jman8]

Is it Global warming or Global cooling this decade?

Hard science, in all its brilliance, determined that the climate changes.

Yet, in the year 3014, hard science will still be waiting on evidence that nicotine is highly addictive, while making a footnote that in the year 2018, everything on the planet was found to be addictive by at least some people.

 

[ronscave]

My quick story/Input. When I smoked real cigarettes I was at 3 packs a day. I could not go say, to a Doctors appointment, and not be craving a cigarette like mad after 15 minutes. 40 years of that. Then I switched to "Roll your own" tobacco"* and all of a sudden I didn't have such a strong craving and could go to an appointment and still be OK after 30-60 minutes. So I was still getting the nicotine but was not getting the other 35 or so additives in a cigarette (as I was told) that also addicts you to them. Let along the thousands of other chemicals they add to them to make them "Taste Good" (did I really just type that).

Now over a year after quiting and only vaping I find ...Yeah I want a vape now and then, but I am no longer tied to the worry about the fact that a couple hours may come and go where I can't have a vape.

Did this answer the question of Nicotine being addictive. Not really, but to me I know the changes I went through made a big difference in my craving. Yes, I still want or need that fix, .....but not anything like before. So I keep on lowering my level of Nicotine and hope someday to be rid of any cravings at all.

* (Roll your own RYO pipe tobaccos do not add any chemicals like store bought cigs).

 

[Altaire Versailles]

Considering the only way nicotine was introduced through the body was through smoking, one could not really separate the smoking and nicotine. Yes, I know dip and chew... personally I thought that stuff was nasty when I tried it.

I can say there are vegetable that contain nicotine as well... I do not believe anyone is addicted to those after eating them except for extremely rare cases.

yeah I mean have you not heard of people getting mouth and gum cancer who chew? My uncles mother was one of them. Thats taking away the combustible aspect.

vegetables contain very trace amounts of nicotine, nowhere near the concentration thats extracted from a tobacco plant.

I believe its less harmful too, but I dont trust my "gut" or "common sense" when making statements of what I know to be true, I wait until predictions are made, testing is done, see if the test results bear out what was predicted to happen if the original hypothesis was correct, and then see if those results can be consistently duplicated by anyone. This is the only reliable tool we have in determining the truth of things.

I dont even know where the global warming stuff is coming from, is this supposed to be a general disdain for scientifically investigating things versus going with your gut and hoping for the best? No thanks, if we figured things out that way we'd still be hunting and gathering wiping our butts with leaves.

 

[Coldrake]

Obviously you havent been paying any attention as evidenced by your bringing up the last 30k years and tossing in your rude little joke...whatever floats your boat eat whatever you'd like Coldrake and enjoy it, sounds tasty.

The wheat (and other grains and gmo's) we have been comsuming, for the past thirty years...are not your grand mothers wheat and grains. They didnt have mutated wheat and genetically modified grains 30k years ago...or epidemic levels of autoimmune diseases.

Actually I was paying attention. Your quote below (emphasis mine) was what I was referring to when I said, "Human beings have been eating grains for at least 30,000 years and we've managed to survive just fine."

People were never meant to consume grains.

Sorry you found what I had for dinner a "rude little joke". It really was what I had for dinner last night, and yes, it was very tasty.


I found it interesting that this link you provided is to a video by Dr. Mark Hyman.

Gluten: What You Dont Know Might Kill You (7 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLJSmJ0bMlk

In another of his videos, (Dairy: 6 Reasons You Should Avoid It at all Costs), he states that whole grains are "great".

Another thing I found interesting was that every video link you provided were to people who have something to sell, (you can find all of their books on Amazon). Personally, I don't get my medical information from You Tube hucksters, (and that includes Dr. Oz). I certainly wouldn't consider them to be a reliable source of information. If you have links to some peer reviewed published clinical studies I'd be happy to read them.

You are ignoring what science and medicine is discovering today

Not at all. I just don't get my medical information from You Tube. I prefer more reliable sources.

But you go right ahead and enjoy that cannelloni while you still think you have your good health
Never mind the cholesterol hike and other silent body and brain killers involved, it's your life.

According to my Doctor I'm in excellent health, and even at 57, she says I have the heart of an athlete. Oh, and my cholesterol levels are fine.

To get back on topic, as far as to whether nicotine is physically addictive or not, the fact is no one knows. There has never been a single clinical study on whether nicotine is physically addictive to humans. Not one. The best we can say at this point is, "maybe, maybe not".

 

[Ryedan]

There definitely are more than a few people here in denial that there is ANY kind of downside to anything that has to do with vaping but I think thats pretty much a scientifically proven fact about nic being addictive.

I have no illusions that vaping is 100% safe. However, I think there is no scientific evidence that nicotine is addictive. As I've said before, if anyone could point me to that data I would appreciate it