Nicsalts - Guess this is up for debate.

[wheelie]

This is my understanding from researching nicsalt. Freebase nicotine that we all used for years, is a refined nicotine from the tobacco plant. Nicsalts have added chemicals from the tobacco plant but a less refined nicotine. The reason they refined the freebase nicotine was for stability.

We all know cigarettes kill, I just wonder what research could show with nicsalts in the future? Nicsalts seem to come out with big tobacco involved in vaping. I know I do not trust big tobacco after lying to my generation or at least not telling us the harm. Who is making nicsalts to put it on the market for us to mix our own?

Let make informative thread and not a misinformed/hateful thread. We need information people have found in the own searchs.

Mods can delete this if the feel it is not a topic for discussion as I am trying to wrap my head around this myself.

CHEERS!

 

[Don29palms]

This is my understanding from researching nicsalt. Freebase nicotine that we all used for years, is a refined nicotine from the tobacco plant. Nicsalts have added chemicals from the tobacco plant but a less refined nicotine. The reason they refined the freebase nicotine was for stability.

We all know cigarettes kill, I just wonder what research could show with nicsalts in the future? Nicsalts seem to come out with big tobacco involved in vaping. I know I do not trust big tobacco after lying to my generation or at least not telling us the harm. Who is making nicsalts to put it on the market for us to mix our own?

Let make informative thread and not a misinformed/hateful thread. We need information people have found in the own searchs.

Mods can delete this if the feel it is not a topic for discussion as I am trying to wrap my head around this myself.

CHEERS!

I thinks this could be interesting. I know very little about nic salts.
Great subject.

 

[madstabber]

Nicotine salt is just adding an acid to freebase to adjust the PH making it smoother on the throat especially at higher nicotine mg’s. I’ve read that nic salts are more stable and should last longer which was why I was interested in it originally but I’ve since heard otherwise and have no idea if it is or isn’t or if there is any difference.
The acid they add to make nicotine salt varies depending whose making it but I’ve heard malic acid and Benzoic acid being used and maybe a third I can’t think of. That’s about the depths of my knowledge but I mix with salts to make my juice, I get mine from nicotine river.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

This is my understanding from researching nicsalt. Freebase nicotine that we all used for years, is a refined nicotine from the tobacco plant. Nicsalts have added chemicals from the tobacco plant but a less refined nicotine. The reason they refined the freebase nicotine was for stability.

We all know cigarettes kill, I just wonder what research could show with nicsalts in the future? Nicsalts seem to come out with big tobacco involved in vaping. I know I do not trust big tobacco after lying to my generation or at least not telling us the harm. Who is making nicsalts to put it on the market for us to mix our own?

Let make informative thread and not a misinformed/hateful thread. We need information people have found in the own searchs.

Mods can delete this if the feel it is not a topic for discussion as I am trying to wrap my head around this myself.

CHEERS!

To my little bit of knowledge another reason they refine freebase is also to remove the natural salt that it already contains. I have read about others using freebase and then making their own NicSalts by adding Citric Acid(CA). There are also other forms of salt that can be used but I don't recall off hand which ones.

I did however, purchase a litre of NicSalts nic when it first came out. I believe I got it from NudeNic in California. Personally, I could not use it like normal because it contained so much salt it made my throat sore. I remember I made the mistake of shaking the litre before pouring and I could see so much salt in the formula that I was skeptical enough to only mix one recipe. I ended up diluting it down to 3mg and had loads of premix I used to mix from but I was never so glad as when I got through the litre. I was careful to allow it to settle for a few days so the salt return to bottom of the container before trying to use it again. I would even add extra vg to my tanks when filling with my recipe so I could vape it. I don't know if I am just super sensitive or what because I know they claim it is suppose to smooth out any harshness but that was not the case with me. I never have bought any more and ended up throwing the last third of the litre down the drain.

Just my 2 pennies.

 

[wheelie]

I thank you so much for your contributions to the thread. Good to know. CHEERS!

 

[Blitzdonlife]

I use nic salts. I started with freebase nicotine, but I switched in the last 6 months. No salt has precipitated in my nic salt so far.

I think that the early batches used too much acid to neutralize the freebase. The quality has improved since then, the ratio, and probably the ingredients also. Pure conjecture on this as I haven't scientifically analyzed batches from different dates to determine this. This is only based on my personal experience.

 

[Rossum]

Nicsalts have added chemicals from the tobacco plant but a less refined nicotine.

No, as already stated, nic salts start out as freebase nicotine. Freebase nic is fairly alkaline. This alkalinity is what produces the throat hit and harshness at high strengths. A weak acid is added to reduce the pH, and this turns some portion of the nicotine into a "salt". These acids are not "from tobacco", although the nicotine in tobacco is also almost all in the form of various salts.

Nicsalts seem to come out with big tobacco involved in vaping.

No, nic salts became a thing with Juul, long before they had any investment from BT. Juul holds the basic patent on this.

 

[wheelie]

Any test results/ documentation posted on this weak acid they put in to make salt? This is actually kinda scary. Not sure I want to play around with nicsalts if people are producing there own. People adding thickeners to CBD Oil and look where that went.

 

[asharru]

Great thread. I don't anything about nic salt other than I'm leery of it. It was hard and took a while to drop from 18 to 6mg freebase. I've tried, but haven't been successful at getting any lower than that. However, depending on what happens in May, I might try again. Reguardless, from what I understand nic salt is typically a higher or more potent nicotine level, and the last thing I want to do is go back up. Because of this, I won't touch the stuff.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

Great thread. I don't anything about nic salt other than I'm leery of it. It was hard and took a while to drop from 18 to 6mg freebase. I've tried, but haven't been successful at getting any lower than that. However, depending on what happens in May, I might try again. Reguardless, from what I understand nic salt is typically a higher or more potent nicotine level, and the last thing I want to do is go back up. Because of this, I won't touch the stuff.

I've vaped 3mg nic salts, and 3mg freebase. You don't have to increase the percentage of nicotine just because they are salts. I find salts more satisfying at the same mg/mL as freebase nicotine, that's why I switched. Nicotine salts are supposed to pass the blood/brain barrier more effectively due to PH, if I remember correctly, so upping the mg would not be necessary. Someone correct me on this on point if I am amiss.

 

[wheelie]

Great thread. I don't anything about nic salt other than I'm leery of it. It was hard and took a while to drop from 18 to 6mg freebase. I've tried, but haven't been successful at getting any lower than that. However, depending on what happens in May, I might try again. Reguardless, from what I understand nic salt is typically a higher or more potent nicotine level, and the last thing I want to do is go back up. Because of this, I won't touch the stuff.

We will see where this goes but I certainly hear you. More documented information needed for sure. I smoked for 42 years so if I vape 6mg the rest of my life I don't really care.

 

[r77r7r]

All the info on salts is here on ecf, somewheres. I believe it started at Vermont Vapors way back when. They did not advertise it as such, just that it was different. Iirc...

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

All the info on salts is here on ecf, somewheres. I believe it started at Vermont Vapors way back when. They did not advertise it as such, just that it was different. Iirc...

I believe you are correct. I remember something about the owner of Vermont Vapors adding dw and citric but it was not to create nicsalts but to mask the smell of the freebase they sold. I dont think the levels he used were very high but just enough to do what he intended.

 

[sonicbomb]

The main motivation behind salts was to allow for extremely high nicotine levels in small devices that did not create very much vapor. I've also read that nic salts are more readily absorbed that freebase. There seems to be very little reliable information on the web about nic salts. The pages I have found seem to be by vendors with an agenda to sell more of them.
I would be very interested in hearing from someone who understands the actual chemistry involved.
This didn't help me much.

 

[DeloresRose]

Great thread. I don't anything about nic salt other than I'm leery of it. It was hard and took a while to drop from 18 to 6mg freebase. I've tried, but haven't been successful at getting any lower than that. However, depending on what happens in May, I might try again. Reguardless, from what I understand nic salt is typically a higher or more potent nicotine level, and the last thing I want to do is go back up. Because of this, I won't touch the stuff.

I mix with salts because as @sonicbomb said, vapor production from pods and the like are very minimal, and salt is milder on the throat at higher %.

I use mostly freebase @ 6 mg/ml, or 25 mg/ml salts. There really is no difference if you vape 1 ml of 25 mg or 4-ish mls of 6 mg, it’s how much the daily total is. I’m at 60 or less mls a day no matter what I’m vaping.


Now here’s my question - might be rhetorical, doubt anyone has an answer. I use 100 mg/ml base so I can use the least amount of base. But if it is harmful, is it less harmful to use the higher nic base in a lower quantity than to use a higher quantity of the lower nic? Or would there be the same level of risk for both? In other words, is the risk proportionate to the amount of base or the amount of nic?

 

[sonicbomb]

I think consuming nicotine, and inhaling large amounts of an aerosol into your lungs carry unique and to some degree unknown risks.
You really shouldn't be putting anything other than fresh air in your lungs. But a lesser evil is exactly that, lesser. Addiction is not an easy thing, and damage limitation is what ecigs offer if nothing else.

 

[RuiG]

I was reading this thread and remembered that CHEMNOVATIC has all sorts of different types of nicsalts with slightly different characteristics. They also sell other nicotine products b2b and have a good amount of information about all of them.

Products - CHEMNOVATIC Product range - CHEMNOVATIC

I need to read more about the subject.

 

[Jebbn]

I've vaped 3mg nic salts, and 3mg freebase. You don't have to increase the percentage of nicotine just because they are salts. I find salts more satisfying at the same mg/mL as freebase nicotine, that's why I switched. Nicotine salts are supposed to pass the blood/brain barrier more effectively due to PH, if I remember correctly, so upping the mg would not be necessary. Someone correct me on this on point if I am amiss.

Its funny, I posted in another thread the exact opposite experience with nic salts to yours.
Heres what I posted in this thread Question about salt-based

Take all the following with a grain of salt. It really only seems to apply to me and doesnt seem to line up with others experience.

Ive been playing around with NS v FB for about a year trying to find comparative mg dose.
I know everyone is different and I know NS and FB are absorbed differently.
The only way I could think of finding a comparative dosage was to vape NS exclusively for 2 weeks to see how many mls I use in that time and then adjust dosage and repeat until I got to around the same ml consumption as FB.
With FB I use 3 to 3.5mg usually and on average 3.6ml a day, this has been consistent for a long time now. I have nearly 2yrs of recorded consumption and dosage data. Im a bit geeky like that.
For me it seems around 8mg to 10mg of NS is equivalent consumption as 3mg to 3.5mg of FB.
Using 3mg NS had my consumption increase quite substantially but never quite feeling satiated.
Difference between 10mg NS and 3mg FB is that the 10mg NS kicks in quicker and maybe a bit harder. I take less draws with NS before I put the vape down but I return to the vape a lot sooner. Less time between sessions.
Vaping 3mg FB takes longer to feel satiated but once I put the vape down I dont return to it for hours.
I vape unflavoured and without any concession much prefer the taste of FB over NS. I also much prefer the way I feel using FB.

I know other people find NS and FB to be equivalent strength but for me it isnt if daily or weekly ml's and mg's are taken into consideration.

 

[madstabber]

Its funny, I posted in another thread the exact opposite experience with nic salts to yours.
Heres what I posted in this thread Question about salt-based

You need to do the same test but make it a blind test. That way you take away any preconceived ideas you may or may not have. It would be interesting to see if you got the same results.

 

[AttyPops]

Anyone own a ph meter?