Nicsalts - Guess this is up for debate.

[AttyPops]

For me, how quickly the nic is delivered, in other words that diff between nic salts vs freebase, isn't a concern.

The nic level matters, but varies with cloud-density and puffs. I suspect I get my necessary nic either way using any vape system. Some cloud matters, some TH, but I think there's a diff between salt-nic and freebase when it comes to lung irritation and/or TH.

I'm just using freebase right now because that's where I started almost 10 years ago. I've tried salt-nic, and if it's higher nic I don't want to use it for that purpose. I'd rather have smoother same-nic, same cloud volume. But I'm even less sure of salt-nic's safety than I am of the freebase. Of course, it could be the other way around, hence my post about PH.

Maybe salt-nic is safer if it's closer to neutral ph?

 

[wheelie]

Safer because they add another additive to it to bring it closer to neutral? I don't think anything just disappears because they add another ingredient. Just counter balances. I just don't like the idea that companies make their own nicsalts. Do they all send it away for testing and have data sheets to share with us? What stops some shady companies from adding any old salt to it because it is cheap and they can make more money. To get to neutral you just add something that is to far the other way to get it where you want but nothing in it disappears. But I am not chemist and this is just my opinion. Take it for what it is. CHEERS!

 

[United States]

One day big clouds were invented. Folks used low nicotine (and lots of VG) easily as the volume of vaper was so much that not much nic was needed.

Another day pods made a comeback. I say comeback because early vapes were pretty close to being pods. The name e-cig was conceived, so they weren't called pods back then. Some called them pens. The store bought kind contained a lot of nicotine. And heavens to mergatroid were they harsh.

The return of the pod meant lower volume of output. More nic was needed. With pods becoming the big sellers many producers began calling them nic salt devices so the folks who smoked but wanted to quit would have an image of lots of nicotine to thwart off the urge to smoke.

Suddenly nic salt was all the rage.

To me, a typical "dose" of nicotine in my device is pretty low. 3-6 strength depending. Health-wise the higher strength nic salts cause me to feel athsmatic. I can tolerate a 12 freebase just fine but a 12 nic salt I cannot. (Same product maker, same flavor, just a 24 nic salt cut in half with zero nic of that in their freebase).

The big issue may become an issue with kids all huffing high strength nic salts for the buzz and their goody two shoes helicopter parents wanting to sue somebody for getting little Nigel hooked on nicotine. In steps big brother the nanny state. Bam. They did it in Europe.

Time will tell if the ingredients cause issues down the road. My body tells me to avoid it.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Free base nicotine = free of base / purest form. (Nic)
Nicotine salts = pronated nicotine / a buffering agent is added. (NicH(+))
There are various buffering agents used.

Laboratory results of e cig / vaping aerosols by gas chromatography show the pronated nicotines produce higher levels of nicotine in the aerosols.
Which means when identical units of aerosol are analyzed ' nic salts ' produce a higher nicotine yield in the vapor inhaled versus free base nicotine.

During the process of turning liquid into an aerosol / vapor these chemical agents do not disappear, become inert, cease to exist, they are combined in the vapor & inhaled.

Because vaping / e cigs use heating to transform liquid into aerosol / vapor, many chemical reactions take place due to various heat levels folks simply aren't aware of.
Then add in all the variables, heat ranges/watts, airflow, Pg, Vg, flavoring & sweeteners %, nicotine type & mg/ml, etc etc.

With vaping some folks are more sensitive to certain things than others / experience reactions to Pg, Vg, various flavorings and or sweeteners, coil metal types even wicking materials,,, this includes nic salts / pronated nicotine.

I've tried 3 different nic salts sources for DIY liquids, 6 different ready made/store bought nic salts e liquids.

We all have to make our own choices, and many react differently to all the variables.
For just me,
a firm No, to any form of nic salts.
also a firm No, to overly flavored & especially sweetened e liquids.

 

[Rossum]

Free base nicotine = free of base

No, not free of base. It is a (relatively weak) base:
Base (chemistry) - Wikipedia

 

[Letitia]

Personally I only switched to salts to reduce th. I was and still am very content with my 9mg when I started diy but disliked the th from commercial juices. I think this is due to the fact I seldom use a sweetener (used very low when I do use one) and I mix citrus heavy juices some of which have some flavor th. When transitioning from commercial to diy I used both for a couple weeks and I noticed no difference in nic satisfaction or the number of hits I took from either, just the smoothness of the vape seemed different.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

deleted...messed up quotes somehow.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Safer because they add another additive to it to bring it closer to neutral? I don't think anything just disappears because they add another ingredient.

Well, you certainly wouldn't want to consume chlorine alone. But add sodium to it, and you salt your food with it.

Yes, we're not going to have any studies done anytime soon telling us they're safe. Over 10 years into vaping, and we still have more misinformation than information.

But, some reading I've done recently about the role inflammation plays in being the number one scourge on our health, I'd probably guess the more balanced pH, being less of an irritant, might actually make nic salts safer. That is, assuming all else is equal in consumption. And Elvis' point about the actual body absorption of the more highly concentrated vapor is obviously true- hence the much higher nic plasma levels tested.

Obviously, my point on inflammation is just conjecture, based on a single known out of almost infinite variables. I really don't believe it's "safe" or wise to inhale either. But here I am. And in spite of that opinion, I use FB just because I like it better.

 

[Jazzman]

Personally, I don't care for nic salts. I have no doubt that it gets into the bloodstream quicker, as I felt the same effect when making my own juice with nic salts. But a big part of the reason I continue to vape is for the throat hit, and salts remove that. I can see the benefit for those that want the nic, but only want the flavor of non-tobacco juices.

The advantage of nic salts over freebase is the ability to not only regulate your nicotine level, but also to tailor the throat hit you prefer. Most prefer nic salts for lower TH, but for those that want TH at lower nic levels that they can't get from FB ( like 3mg/ml or 6mg) you also have the choice of the Hit nic salts which increases the TH of nic salts. I have seen 3 levels of TH NS, Smooth, Normal, and Hit varieties. I use smooth at 6mg in my juice since I don't like TH, but purchased Hit just for testing. The Hit NS does add a lot of TH, I mean a significant amount of TH, much more than FB nic. Hit NS at 6mg/ml reminds me of the TH of FB nic at 18MG that I started vaping with.

You can also mix Smooth and Hit if you want to further tailoring of your preferred TH. The ability to get the perfect TH, regardless of nic level, is a nice option for those that are not satisfied, for whatever reason, with FB nic solutions but don't want to raise their nic levels. So NS does not remove your ability to get TH, it actually gives you more choice over your TH level without messing anything else up in your mix like trying to compensate for more TH with increased PG.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

The advantage of nic salts over freebase is the ability to not only regulate your nicotine level, but also to tailor the throat hit you prefer. Most prefer nic salts for lower TH, but for those that want TH at lower nic levels that they can't get from FB ( like 3mg/ml or 6mg) you also have the choice of the Hit nic salts which increases the TH of nic salts. I have seen 3 levels of TH NS, Smooth, Normal, and Hit varieties. I use smooth at 6mg in my juice since I don't like TH, but purchased Hit just for testing. The Hit NS does add a lot of TH, I mean a significant amount of TH, much more than FB nic. Hit NS at 6mg/ml reminds me of the TH of FB nic at 18MG that I started vaping with.

You can also mix Smooth and Hit if you want to further tailoring of your preferred TH. The ability to get the perfect TH, regardless of nic level, is a nice option for those that are not satisfied, for whatever reason, with FB nic solutions but don't want to raise their nic levels. So NS does not remove your ability to get TH, it actually gives you more choice over your TH level without messing anything else up in your mix like trying to compensate for more TH with increased PG.

I guess that's the premise. But I bought the "hit" nic from NicRiver, and get virtually no TH compared to FB. Even the "hit" version is dramatically smoother. At least Nic River's is.

 

[Jazzman]

I guess that's the premise. But I bought the "hit" nic from NicRiver, and get virtually no TH compared to FB. Even the "hit" version is dramatically smoother. At least Nic River's is.

NicRiver is who I purchase both the Hit and the Smooth... the Hit has a super kick for real. Maybe contact them and have them look into your batch, maybe something went wrong with them. There should be a traceable batch number on the container.

 

[Don29palms]

NicRiver is who I purchase both the Hit and the Smooth... the Hit has a super kick for real. Maybe contact them and have them look into your batch, maybe something went wrong with them. There should be a traceable batch number on the container.

What is the difference in cost between nic salts and freebase? It might be something for me to look into. I would like to be able to have a stronger throat hit at low nic level. My ejuice is only 1.5mg.

 

[sonicbomb]

The advantage of nic salts over freebase is the ability to not only regulate your nicotine level, but also to tailor the throat hit you prefer.

What chemical process is used to create this customization of the throat hit other than changing the nic level?

 

[Brewdawg1181]

What is the difference in cost between nic salts and freebase? It might be something for me to look into. I would like to be able to have a stronger throat hit at low nic level. My ejuice is only 1.5mg.

You won't be able to increase TH above freebase with salts. All salt formulas have a more balanced pH and reduce TH from FB. I used the "hit" version, and it had far less TH than FB. I'd say TH level is something like this:

 

[Brewdawg1181]

What chemical process is used to create this customization of the throat hit other than changing the nic level?

I believe the smooth, normal, hit versions are created using different acids, or combinations of them- benzoic, lactic, citric, etc.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

NicRiver is who I purchase both the Hit and the Smooth... the Hit has a super kick for real. Maybe contact them and have them look into your batch, maybe something went wrong with them. There should be a traceable batch number on the container.

Wait- you're saying that you get bigger TH from NR's hit salt than FB? That would be really odd, because the whole reason behind salt is to make higher nic levels more smooth and tolerable. Mine doesn't taste defective - or bad - just different, and definitely far more tolerable and less hit than FB.

 

[Jazzman]

Wait- you're saying that you get bigger TH from NR's hit salt than FB? That would be really odd, because the whole reason behind salt is to make higher nic levels more smooth and tolerable. Mine doesn't taste defective - or bad - just different, and definitely far more tolerable and less hit than FB.

I agree that's the most common reason. Being able to make high nicotine juices tolerable. That's the trait of "Smooth" salt nic. But there's also Hit salts that increases the TH for those that want it. The bottle you have should be labeled with what kind of salt nic you have.

So the process of making salt nic allows for a range of TH without changing your nic level. Which just add another way to tailor your vape to your taste.

 

[Jazzman]

What chemical process is used to create this customization of the throat hit other than changing the nic level?

Please give NicRiver or NudeNic a call and I'm sure they can give you a much more precise answer to the manufacturing process used than I could. But yeah, there is a big difference for me. With smooth salts at 6mg it is very smooth to me, with FB at 6mg there is a bit of TH but not too much, with Hit salts at 6mg I find the TH objectionable. I can easily tell the difference from each mix, but I prefer no TH.

 

[Chris Wilkes]

In Australia you cannot buy ejuice with nicotine at any level. However you are allowed to import small amounts for your personal use. For years I have been importing from China 99.9% pure nicotine (freebase?) and mixing my own at very low strengths. My mixes are so low that when I occasionally have a normal Cigarette, I have a coughing spell with headspin which soon reminds me why I changed to vaping.
The company where I get my pure Nicotine informed me to keep it in the freezer for up to 12months then discard what wasn't used- which I have done. Also they advised me to ditch it if the clear liquid started to go dark brown in colour, which was caused by oxidization. So as the contents in the container go down I keep the amount of air to a minimum with small glass marbles in the bottle to minimise the air gap in the resealed bottle. It being kept in the freezer stops the light getting to it as much also- as would happen in a refrigerator with the door being opened constantly. (also keeps it away from children as it's highly toxic in pure form)
The company recently informed me of two new forms of Nicotine salts that have been available for a short time and after reading some of the former threads here, I think I'll stick with what I'm using for the time being, just to be on the safe side.
Thanks for all of the previous input, as this is why I joined your forum. CW

 

[stols001]

TE, that was pretty interesting. I always thought the idea of nic salts being somehow "more potent" was a myth, but it sounds like it isn't.

I will say to anyone with worries, if making your own nicsalts at home were supremely dangerous like Vitamin E I DO believe we would have heard about it by now,.

I started on nic salts because my respiratory system was so shot. I use freebase now, bur the last 4-5 liters of my stash is nic salts in case I ever need them in my dotage. LOL.

I would not try to make nic salts at home personally and I must say the only difference I noticed between freebase and nic salts (I used Nic River now River Supply) was a SLIGHTLY different taste and like, no throat hit whatsoever.

I prefer freebase myself, but I really don't think nic salts are DANGEROUS in any way, if USED correctly. That would be the key, I think.

Anna