No more starving the atomizer!

[Winace]

I have removed the bridge and wick from my 510 atomizer and created a cart which puts polyfill straight to the coil. The polyfill is only about the quantity of half a stock cart. Behind the poly is almost 2ml of juice.

The density of the poly is enough to keep in total saturation without leaking (the cart only being open on one end helps, think of a straw when you put your finger on one end when it is full).

The poly always remains under complete saturation, it does not burn because of this (you can boil water in a paper cup you know ;-)). The poly dries in direct proportion to what the coil can vaporize. The dried part of the poly then re-saturates.

By doing this, the coil os now 100% cleanable and only fails when it is DEAD.

Liquid usage goes up (and jeeze, your head spinning will confirm it!). I am vaping it on a stock 510 manual battery and a 6 second hit is insane (and not recommended). Dropping the battery voltage may be a much wiser choice here, for increasing it would vaporize even larger amounts of juice and increase hit intensity even more (an unwanted effect at this point).

I taste no burnt poly, no strange tastes, just strong flavored juice. After 3 hits on this beast, I feel as if I just put down an entire analog.

The juice does not leak, does not flood the coil, and you get none in your mouth, it just vaporizes very efficiently. My average daily consumption of juice is about 6.67ml. This burnt through 1.5ml in about 65-70 minutes of constant vaping. My head was spinning and I was more than satisfied, but in the sake of testing.... I HAD to do it!

 

[danielwd]

Is the wick(s) the strings coming out? And is the "bridge" the steel looking loop?

Sure wish I could see some pics of what you are talking about. It sounds interesting.

 

[ProfessorDaffy]

I have removed the bridge and wick from my 510 atomizer and created a cart which puts polyfill straight to the coil. The polyfill is only about the quantity of half a stock cart. Behind the poly is almost 2ml of juice.

The density of the poly is enough to keep in total saturation without leaking (the cart only being open on one end helps, think of a straw when you put your finger on one end when it is full).

The poly always remains under complete saturation, it does not burn because of this (you can boil water in a paper cup you know ;-)). The poly dries in direct proportion to what the coil can vaporize. The dried part of the poly then re-saturates.

By doing this, the coil os now 100% cleanable and only fails when it is DEAD.

Liquid usage goes up (and jeeze, your head spinning will confirm it!). I am vaping it on a stock 510 manual battery and a 6 second hit is insane (and not recommended). Dropping the battery voltage may be a much wiser choice here, for increasing it would vaporize even larger amounts of juice and increase hit intensity even more (an unwanted effect at this point).

I taste no burnt poly, no strange tastes, just strong flavored juice. After 3 hits on this beast, I feel as if I just put down an entire analog.

The juice does not leak, does not flood the coil, and you get none in your mouth, it just vaporizes very efficiently. My average daily consumption of juice is about 6.67ml. This burnt through 1.5ml in about 65-70 minutes of constant vaping. My head was spinning and I was more than satisfied, but in the sake of testing.... I HAD to do it!

Okay, I guess it's up to me to ask the logical questions. That is, until somebody tries this and get us some pictures. I sounds as if the only filler material is in the atomizer itself. The 2ml (a bit much, that like 40 drops) would be in the cart itself. Or do you put the juice also in the atomizer? See the dilemma.

Info needed...
1. What kind of cart and what's in the cart? Is it empty and just filled with juice?
2. Somebody enlighten me how to actually remove the wick from an atomizer.
3. Filling the atomizer with playful would seem to make it difficult to push the atomizer in place without compressing your polyfill. Unless that's the general idea.
4. You'd think a polyfilled cart would prevent airflow through the cart. After all, this time you're actually drawing liquid through the polyfill material. At least the way I'm envisioning. Then again, maybe not. You'd still have the space at from the bottom of the cart to the air tunnels.

Admittedly you have me intrigued. Luckily I'm in the mood to experiment. I've got a few halfway decent atomizers I wouldn't mind cannibalizing in the name of science. Or experimentation. Anyway, you definitely get the WTF Award for the night!

--Prof Daffy

 

[Claasy]

Can you post up a guide on how you did this? Sounds very interesting!

 

[Winace]

Okay, I guess it's up to me to ask the logical questions. That is, until somebody tries this and get us some pictures. I sounds as if the only filler material is in the atomizer itself. The 2ml (a bit much, that like 40 drops) would be in the cart itself. Or do you put the juice also in the atomizer? See the dilemma.

Info needed...
1. What kind of cart and what's in the cart? Is it empty and just filled with juice?
2. Somebody enlighten me how to actually remove the wick from an atomizer.
3. Filling the atomizer with playful would seem to make it difficult to push the atomizer in place without compressing your polyfill. Unless that's the general idea.
4. You'd think a polyfilled cart would prevent airflow through the cart. After all, this time you're actually drawing liquid through the polyfill material. At least the way I'm envisioning. Then again, maybe not. You'd still have the space at from the bottom of the cart to the air tunnels.

Admittedly you have me intrigued. Luckily I'm in the mood to experiment. I've got a few halfway decent atomizers I wouldn't mind cannibalizing in the name of science. Or experimentation. Anyway, you definitely get the WTF Award for the night!

--Prof Daffy

Prof Daffy,

I wrote up a big post earlier, went to submit, and poof.... gone....

I will be expanding on this, but first things first. Give me some direction on posting some pics up here and I'll be obliged to do so. If not, PM me your email and I'll send them to you to post.

The cart, quick description and principal is as such:

Pen body inserted into atomizer housing (only coil is in there, bridge and wick removed (to other poster, the wick is the fiberglass material which is in the metal mesh bridge and extends to the coil). Drinkink straw sealed on top end, plugged with poly, filled with juice, inserted into pen body. The poly extends 1/4" past straw end so it is the only thing in contact with the coil. You have to experiment with poly density depending on viscousity of the fluid. I got water all the way to straight VG running smoothly (about a pea size amount of poly rolled in your fingers (not extremely tight). When testing, use the plugged straw, fill with your fluid and plug with poly. When you touch a cloth with the poly end bubbles should come up the straw and cloth should get wet with juice. Touching the poly to anything non-absorbative should do nothing. The point is to keep the poly saturated without dripping.

Next, coffee straw inserted next to liquid straw. This is the air out-take route. Straight line from coil to mouth, hits awesome.

I want to go a step further and vent the atty housing opposite the side of the air straw to pull atmospheric air across the coil length-wise. I would then plug the atty vent holes. The side vent will have an adjustable plug for "pull" adjustability. The dead space in the pen body (between liquid straw and air straw needs filled with blue foam so air only comes up the air straw.

More later, gotta run!

 

[$igmund]

I'd like to see more information and pics of this also. sounds interesting.

 

[Darmeen]

sounds like an extreme variant of the straw mod...

If I understand correctly, instead of putting the straw in the mouthpiece (ie, cart) you are sliding the straw into the atomizer cavity, with a second straw (coffee stir stick) for the vape to flow to the mouthpiece...

with the polyfil at the bottom of the straw, you are essentially replacing the atomizer wick and bridge and using straight polyfil...don't need those to wick the juice if you have a wick in place.

is that the gist of it so far?

I would venture a guess and say that they tried this before (as in the development phase of creating the atomizer...

I am intrigued and would like to hear more.

 

[Overlord]

Gah, your second post on the same mod and still no pics!!!!

Origional post if this was the lost one you were referring too
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ussion/47982-take-idea-run-modder-needed.html

 

[ZeroNullity]

I've done this before ... the only problem is if you use too much fluid or too much fluid gets to the heating element it can damage the atomizer quicker. It will also be hard for some people to remove the wick without damaging the leads. They do give a pretty good amount of slack that leads from the fitting to the atomizer. Darmeen - Yes they probably did try this before & found out it spent atomizer too quickly & blocked airflow.

 

[Winace]

sounds like an extreme variant of the straw mod...

If I understand correctly, instead of putting the straw in the mouthpiece (ie, cart) you are sliding the straw into the atomizer cavity, with a second straw (coffee stir stick) for the vape to flow to the mouthpiece...

with the polyfil at the bottom of the straw, you are essentially replacing the atomizer wick and bridge and using straight polyfil...don't need those to wick the juice if you have a wick in place.

is that the gist of it so far?

I would venture a guess and say that they tried this before (as in the development phase of creating the atomizer...

I am intrigued and would like to hear more.

No variant of the straw mod at all. One straw IS the liquid cartridge, one straw is the air passage (coil to mouth). The original straw method helps evacuate a cartridge, but the HUGE problem is getting juice to flow from an absorbative material (ie poly) to a NON-absorbative material (ie mesh wick). The straw mod allows air in behind the poly to help the poly create a state of equilibrium with saturation. That is it, it is more efficient at creating the equillibrium. For instance, lets look at a standard cart with poly in the terms of percent saturation. Any absorbant material which exceeds its absorbancy limit will accept no more fluid and leak. We will say this is the 100% saturation threshold. Any absorbative material will hold liquid on a percent mass/weight ratio. Some more than others. Ones that absorb better typically do not like to let go of it as readily. So yea, one material may hold more than another, but it is less apt to drain the liquid also. If, in the stock cart example, the poly is at 100% saturation. The poly in touch with the wick after a draw is taken will transfer some fluid to the dry mesh wick. The front of the poly is now at 75% saturation with a total poly volume affected at about 20%. This means the rear 90% of the poly is still at 100% saturation. Now, the absorbtion properties of the poly start the equillibrium process (fluid will absorb from the higher saturation part of the poly to the lower). Under good circumstances, the poly will reach equillibrium at about 95.0% saturation level. The process then repeats. This is why you get steady decreasement of throat hit and flavor each successive hit. Inserting the straw into the poly (ie. straw mod) helps equillibrium to be obtained quicker, it does not increase the efficiency of the poly to "let go" of the fluid.

The plug mod (see ADM and many other mods where a poly/foam plug is used to stopper a cartridge of pure fluid) is much more efficient. The plug, once it drops the saturation level gets a full supply of fresh juice to obtain the 100% saturation level each time. The fluid containing cartridge (in my case the straw), has to be sealed on all sides but the plugged side. Inserting a "straw" mod would allow the fluid to freely dump from the resevoir. The combined negative pressure and fluidic bonding characteristics of the fluid itself assists in not oversaturating the poly and flooding the coil.

 

[nubee]

What happens after setting down a fully loaded card for an hour on the desk???
Juice flood?

 

[Winace]

I've done this before ... the only problem is if you use too much fluid or too much fluid gets to the heating element it can damage the atomizer quicker. It will also be hard for some people to remove the wick without damaging the leads. They do give a pretty good amount of slack that leads from the fitting to the atomizer. Darmean - Yes they probably did try this before & found out it spent atomizer too quickly & blocked airflow.

This is the first design of mine which has never flooded. Removing the wick and bridge can be a little difficult. I used a soldering pick tool which is sharp on one side (like a chisel) to just cut it off at the base.

Airflow is not blocked whatsoever, I have yet to even get a gurgle from the atty while utilizing this method.

As far as them trying this before.... I doubt they have. I engineered a microwave accelerated peptide synthesizer and spent alot of time with overseas engineers. The amount spent on R&D for an electronic cigarette is negligable I am sure. Basically, if it works half ..., get it out the door, we can fix it later. Another extreme is getting it out the door partly functional and make coin of consumable parts.

 

[Winace]

What happens after setting down a fully loaded card for an hour on the desk???
Juice flood?

Nothing. I tested this specifically. I placed them poly plug side down all night, no leakage. I filled 10 carts like this of various viscosity fluids and hung them for hours. No leaks. I then hung them over the electric stove with burner on to get a heat extreme. Even with the heat thinning viscosity, no leaks.

 

[Winace]

Nothing. I tested this specifically. I placed them poly plug side down all night, no leakage. I filled 10 carts like this of various viscosity fluids and hung them for hours. No leaks. I then hung them over the electric stove with burner on to get a heat extreme. Even with the heat thinning viscosity, no leaks.

And yes... before the question comes... I tested on its SIDE also ;-)

 

[Winace]

Gah, your second post on the same mod and still no pics!!!!

Origional post if this was the lost one you were referring too
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ussion/47982-take-idea-run-modder-needed.html

How do you post pics here? Do you need a hosting site? What is a good one to use for the forums?

 

[MadeyeTony]

How do you post pics here? Do you need a hosting site? What is a good one to use for the forums?

Try imgur: the simple image host I found it to be the simplest of all the image hosts. Upload your picture, copy the direct link url. Click add picture in the forum controls, and past the url, done! Good luck.

p.s. I would love to see some pictures, this sounds very interesting!

 

[Ashhead]

I would still like to see pictures and, know how to remove the bridge and wick...

 

[Ashhead]

tinypic.com

 

[Ashhead]

What happens after setting down a fully loaded card for an hour on the desk???
Juice flood?

Who sits an e-cig down for an hour?????? J/K

 

[Winace]

Ok, I was testing how much poly to use as a plug. I was also testing the blue foam as a plug. The conlusions drawn are:

Too much poly and it functions like a normal cart (it sucks, slow to resaturate and equilibriate)

Too little poly and you will oversature (due to the weight and force of liquid behind it)

Too much blue foam and it will not penetrate through it.

Too little blue foam will transfer fluid to anything, thus flooding a coil.

Then it dawned on me.....

The smallest piece of blue foam I could use to keep fluid from free-flowing out of the straw was a piece slightly larger in diameter of the straw. The thickness was stock (1/4-3/8"). I put this little piece into the straw and turned the straw over. Nothing came out, even for extended periods. The blue foam is acting as a bridge, it will hold fluid and transfer it to anything, a medium of sorts. It's advatage... it holds fluid. Now, since the blue foam will transfer liquid to anything, I put a very small piece of poly in after it.

As expected, the poly immediately saturated. When vaporizing the poly-fluid it pulls fluid directly from the blue foam. You can NOT flood, in fact, pull the poly out and you lose nothing (blue foam is still stopping it).

In the straw is liquid, followed by blue foam, followed by polyfill.

Cart, poly, bridge, wick, coil... This is the order of a stock e-cig. You get best results by dripping, no? This is because you went this order ----> Liquid, bridge, wick, coil. The wick is just an extension of the bridge, but more heat resistant and easiliy manipulated.

A cart which goes liquid, bridge (blue foam), to poly, to coil is exactly like dripping, but even better... It has the added advantage of the poly PULLING liquid from the bridge. When dripping, the wick (just before the coil) is just transfering liquid from the bridge, not pulling it from the bridge......

Just food for thought....