No online sales to Arkansas?

[Racehorse]

Because people Should be Aware of This.

Most already were in AR. This happened back in March end of month:

"Senate Bill 978, sponsored by Sen. Eddie Joe Williams, R-Cabot, passed the House with a 51-16 vote.

The legislation would not add any additional taxes but would provide "considerable regulation" for these nicotine products, Rep. Douglas House, R-North Little Rock, said when he presented the bill."

Bill to regulate e-cigarettes passes House

Republicans, thank you!!!!!

(Not that it matters, they are all doing it nowadays).

Unless the name of the sender is obviously a vendor of vaping products (i.e. have "Vapor", etc.) in the name, how would they even know what's in the package? The state can't order USPS to open and check every single package being sent to an Arkansas resident without a court order, since that would be considered a federal offense for tampering with the US mail.

Keep in mind, according to postal regs that "First-Class letters and parcels are protected against search and seizure under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, and, as such, cannot be opened without a search warrant. If there is probable cause to believe the contents of a First-Class letter or parcel violate federal law, Postal Inspectors can obtain a search warrant to open the mailpiece."

Also keep in mind that SB978 isn't a federal law. It is rather complicated and costly to get a court ordered search warrant. Of course, they could "coordinate" with other officials from state, municipality, feds as necesssary to seize your package......if anybody thinks USPS is going to call in that many people over 2 bottles of eliquid.... just sayin'.

 

[daleron]

<----------------- here too daleron. Color me furious this morning.

It's just cruddy mattiem, but by golly we will SURVIVE!!

 

[skoony]

They can never actually stop online sales.
Think about it.

yes they can stop online sales.
if shipped from over seas,customs will stop them.
they have before.
any thing shipped in the US to US customers are
easily intercept-able. the for digit extension at
the end of the zip-code denotes an actual physical
location. it is required for Fedex,Ups and the USPS.
anyone who believes there's not a list of company's
crossed referenced to locations are fooling themselves
considering the Patriot Act and all that.
it will be child's play to modify the tracking software
to flag anything shipped for further inspection
if in fact it isn't already being done.

regards
mike

 

[mattiem]

It's just cruddy mattiem, but by golly we will SURVIVE!!

Yes we will. I am pretty well set so it isn't going to effect me much but there are still thousands upon thousands of smokers that will never find, or find it very difficult to choose this option to help put the smokes behind them. It is for them that I fight.

 

[Racehorse]

Someone has to pay inflated government salaries. It was only a matter of time. Welcome to the dark ages of vaping

Actually, that is not where the money is going. States are losing $$ from the tobacco segment. We have a full scale federally funded health center here that provides both medical as well as dental and they base it on sliding scale (what your income is).

After people here (and most are not well off but working people) were having to walk around with abcessed teeth and such, because none of the dentists would "front" services rendered without being paid in full at time of treatment, I have to say that it has helped thousands of families here. But tobacco settlement money is what funds these medical facilities.

That is why I am always very split about favoring the vaping population, which is probably about 1% of the entire state population, and probably way less than that in my county, over 80% of the residents here who benefit from these absolutely necessary services.

To be fair. That is.

Of course I think these eliquid regs suck, but if they said "we will pull this health center out of your community, when you ccan still go to to a vape shop to buy eliquids instead of online.......to be honest, I would have to choose to keep the medical and dental center here. Because it also saves a lot of lives and such.....and if you had a tooth that needed to come out, and couldn't come up with almost $200 to treat infection and then extraction.....well, you pretty much could just die. So let's include dentists and doctors and also all the small businesses htere that don't have dental plans, and/or don't pay enough for workers to buy insurance, in the *villain* category, Right?

It's not any ONE problem....it's an entire complex problem taht needs to be looked at intelligently and fairly.

 

[inswva]

While plenty of consumers would likely be willing to circumvent regulations, certainly not all vendors would be. I haven't read the details of the Arkansas legislation but if the licensing process is cumbersome and/or expensive a lot of vendors just won't bother and will simply refuse orders from Arkansas (or other jurisdictions with similarly prohibitive regulations). I'd imagine the Arkansas market share isn't worth the risk of possible punitive actions should the vendor choose to employ such methods as "discreet" packaging in an attempt to thwart the law.

 

[Racehorse]

the for digit extension at
the end of the zip-code denotes an actual physical
location. it is required for Fedex,Ups and the USPS.
anyone who believes there's not a list of company's
crossed referenced to locations are fooling themselves

since online sales of hardware is not under any restrictions, that doesn't really hold much water in the AR eliquid regulation case.

FWIW, my state rep is a republican and since he is a neighbor I vote for him, but in April I ran into him at our firehouse picnic for the neighborhood and told him that might change when I heard about this stuff.

 

[Racehorse]

Yes we will. I am pretty well set so it isn't going to effect me much but there are still thousands upon thousands of smokers that will never find, or find it very difficult to choose this option to help put the smokes behind them. It is for them that I fight.

There are vape shops all over the place. I live in the middle of nowhere, 80 miles from the nearest "larger town". 5,000 people live where I do. And we have 2 vape shops already, and a 3rd on the way. Anybody who WANTS to vape here can.

It's not like people can't buy vape stuff at retailers? Everyone I know DIYs their eliquid anyway, but for everyone else, you can certainly ask them to get your brand.

 

[inswva]

There are vape shops all over the place. I live in the middle of nowhere, 80 miles from the nearest "larger town". 5,000 people live where I do. And we have 2 vape shops already, and a 3rd on the way.

It's not like people can't buy vape stuff at retailers? Everyone I know DIYs their eliquid anyway, but for everyone else, you can certainly ask them to get your brand.

And how exactly will the B&Ms receive their inventory? From a brief perusal of the original post, Vapor Shark had to become licensed in AR to sell wholesale. How many other out-of-state vendors will follow suit? The end result will be even higher B&M prices and less product selection.

 

[Mogar]

it is not just the customer that gets dinged.
If a online Vapor shop with a legit tax id number sends something to a state that has banned it, the shipper takes the hit also.

 

[skoony]

since online sales of hardware is not under any restrictions, that doesn't really hold much water in the AR eliquid regulation case.

FWIW, my state rep is a republican and since he is a neighbor I vote for him, but in April I ran into him at our firehouse picnic for the neighborhood and told him that might change when I heard about this stuff.

what does the term vapor product mean then?
e-juice and vapor products seem to mean different things
in the bill.
regards
mike

 

[jseah]

since online sales of hardware is not under any restrictions, that doesn't really hold much water in the AR eliquid regulation case.

FWIW, my state rep is a republican and since he is a neighbor I vote for him, but in April I ran into him at our firehouse picnic for the neighborhood and told him that might change when I heard about this stuff.

Oh, so the restriction only applies to eliquid? You can still buy tanks, mods, coils, etc. over the internet?

 

[jseah]

We have a full scale federally funded health center here that provides both medical as well as dental and they base it on sliding scale (what your income is).

If the health center is federally funded, how is that being paid for by the MSA money? As far as I'm aware, the MSA was between the tobacco companies and the individual states that agreed to settle. I'm not aware of the federal government getting any money out of the MSA agreement.

 

[Racehorse]

And how exactly will the B&Ms receive their inventory? From a brief perusal of the original post, Vapor Shark had to become licensed to sell wholesale. How many other out-of-state vendors will follow suit? The end result will be even higher B&M prices and less product selection.

It's probably about $500 to get a license. Probably less. The 2 vape stores here are part of a huge discount cigarette wholesale chain operation that is richer than God. I'm not too worried about them and anyway, they probably already have whatever licenses they need by now anyway.

Companies like Vapor Shark are doing everything right. Instead of just trying to make a lot of $$ pushing stuff out the door and making a fast buck off some new fad, they, like MOV and a few others, have kept abreast of all the regulations that might be on the horizon, and have taken steps to stay in business for the long term. They also TEST all the ejuice they carry, for AP and DA.....or they won't sell the product.

Personally, i appreciate this kind of business model, I hope they, and others like them, flourish. And, they will. The less professional outfits, like the one who put titanium dioxide in my ejuice (because they have no idea or clue about what they are doing) ("bottle fillers") could go out of business and there will be no crocodile tears from me. I might have been poisoned or died because of them. This stuff goes into my body, it's no joke. The eliquid side of the biz is no place for ROOKIES these days. Sorry.

 

[jseah]

What I find ironic is how the federal government and all the states are so gung ho about demonizing vaping and how they need to "protect the children", and yet there is such a large national push to legalize the recreational use of certain substances. Even more so in the state of Washington, where recreational use is now legal, but they want to ban all flavors of ejuice and want to impose a 95% tax.

 

[Racehorse]

If the health center is federally funded, how is that being paid for by the MSA money? As far as I'm aware, the MSA was between the tobacco companies and the individual states that agreed to settle. I'm not aware of the federal government getting any money out of the MSA agreement.

Actually, it is both. Operates on federal and state grants, as well as $$ from TPCP.
They do other stuff besides just medical and dental. There are free breast screenings for cancer, teen pregnancy programs, progrmas for the elderly, state and federal tax return preparations, diabetes screenings, and also a program that matches your savings so that poor working people can afford to put downpayment on a home or have repairs made and of course tobacco cessation programs.

At any rate, when people complain about taxes in general, I also see all the good they do......while others only claim it goes to inflated salaries of politicians.

Just trying to find a few good things about life here in the USA and in my little corner of the world. Because there is plenty if you look.

 

[Racehorse]

there is such a large national push to legalize the recreational use of certain substances. Even more so in the state of Washington, where recreational use is now legal

And how long, how many years of work did it take people to accomplish THAT? It wasn't overnight, and it wasn't easily done right?

 

[tirpider]

Actually, that is not where the money is going. States are losing $$ from the tobacco segment. We have a full scale federally funded health center here that provides both medical as well as dental and they base it on sliding scale (what your income is).

After people here (and most are not well off but working people) were having to walk around with abcessed teeth and such, because none of the dentists would "front" services rendered without being paid in full at time of treatment, I have to say that it has helped thousands of families here. But tobacco settlement money is what funds these medical facilities.

That is why I am always very split about favoring the vaping population, which is probably about 1% of the entire state population, and probably way less than that in my county, over 80% of the residents here who benefit from these absolutely necessary services.

To be fair. That is.

Of course I think these eliquid regs suck, but if they said "we will pull this health center out of your community, when you ccan still go to to a vape shop to buy eliquids instead of online.......to be honest, I would have to choose to keep the medical and dental center here. Because it also saves a lot of lives and such.....and if you had a tooth that needed to come out, and couldn't come up with almost $200 to treat infection and then extraction.....well, you pretty much could just die. So let's include dentists and doctors and also all the small businesses htere that don't have dental plans, and/or don't pay enough for workers to buy insurance, in the *villain* category, Right?

It's not any ONE problem....it's an entire complex problem taht needs to be looked at intelligently and fairly.

This may be tangential, but I have been trying to get my teeth pulled and dentures for years. Turned down financing and aid for years. Where in ark is this "sliding scale center"? I would like to speak with them about a mouth full of half teeth that needs to be tended to.

 

[sjrily]

Online sales are not addressed in this bill/act at all, in any way. We know - we spent this spring going through every single line of this and other related state legislation with a fine tooth comb. (BTW - the Arkansas tax per ml bill was pulled in March)

There's been a lot of (irresponsible) misinformation put out in the last 24 hours by people just becoming aware of this.

Also, please note NO ONE has an Arkansas vapor product permit - retail, wholesale or manufacturer yet, so any claims otherwise are not true. Applications were not going to begin processing until yesterday, July 21, when act went into law. ATC has already stated it will take at least three days for the first application to go through the channels and be approved.

We know this too because we got an update on our submitted applications several weeks ago.

 

[Racehorse]

Oh, so the restriction only applies to eliquid? You can still buy tanks, mods, coils, etc. over the internet?

"Provide for the close supervision and control of the licensing of persons to sell cigarettes, and other tobacco products, vapor products, alternative nicotine products, and e-liquid products in this state in order to assure that cigarettes and other tobacco when these products are distributed in the state, they are fresh, not contaminated, and are properly taxed, stamped, stored, and distributed "

Then it goes on to explain what it's not :
"Alternative nicotine product" does not include a:
(v) Product that is a device under 21 U.S.C. §"

The OP provided a link to the bill, maybe people need to read it in order to discuss?
Bill Information