Non-smoker thinking of vaping

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stevegmu

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I think what he is saying is that some students are using illegal or scrip meds to maintain their scores, and he has suggested they try something a little less harmful. Given a choice, nic is preferable to speed IMO (by many, many orders of magnitude) but perhaps you don't agree?

I actually studied in college to maintain my grades. Guess that's a little too much to ask for this generation... Nothing is preferable. I certainly don't think it is the job of a college professor to get his students dependent on nicotine. Some would see that as criminal, or at least grounds for dismissal...
 

The Dog Guy

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I actually studied in college to maintain my grades. Guess that's a little too much to ask for this generation... Nothing is preferable. I certainly don't think it is the job of a college professor to get his students dependent on nicotine. Some would see that as criminal, or at least grounds for dismissal...

I think you are addicted to master baiting! I posted it incorrectly earlier
 
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mosspa

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Propaganda?! You spread only the research backed by studies biased towards pro vaping! I could do the same thing for smoking tobacco, use only the studies I find that prove my point. Propaganda!?
This is the reason why no one should take any scientific "data" supplied here as serious. Your arguments are fundamentally flawed; you do not address the opposing view, I.e. nicotine and caffeine are addictive. You circle the wagons and site only specific sources that improve your stance on the subject. An argument is linear, my friend, not circular. You can't continually site one or two sources and expect any intelligent individual to believe you.
But that is the basic flaw of anyone's arguments; their unwillingness to listen, let alone think about the opposing side of said argument. No one ever wants to admit they can't see the other side of the fence, but it has to happen for real information and knowledge to surface. I smoked a pack or more a day for over 20 years, now I have cut back to 4-5 a day with the help of vaping. Obviously I don't want the world to believe my new love of vaping is as bad or worse than smoking tobacco. I don't think it is. But for people here to blatantly state that drugs that interact with your central nervous system (nicotine and caffeine, as examples) are not addictive at all, and the proof is in this one study or that one study or this member's university degrees and clinical testing is just plain ignorant. If you want to claim that no studies can conclusively prove either point, then fine, but for the sake of the sheep out there, please don't continue the propaganda bullet train you claim I am riding because I won't outright believe what you say.

Both rolygate and I have linked to articles that are based on science, not propaganda. There is a scientific method (I should post my lecture notes on this, just to piss the true believers off). Here's an easy one... I say all swans are white. You find a black swan (perhaps you are in Australia). I am proven wrong. The problem is that you can't even produce one true nicotine addict (i.e., black swan).
 

R211

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I feel like OP if you vape on some 12 MG juice (maybe even 6), you will feel so sick you'll never want to vape again. I don't want to be the person just knocking non-smokers, but you've highly underestimated the effects of nicotine on someone with no tolerance to it whatsoever.

I've actually changed my mind on my last post, if you are 100 percent going to vape and have your mind set on it, get a good setup with lots of vapor production and get 3 MG juice. You're going to get a buzz from it, but eventually your tolerance to nicotine will increase to the point where the 3 MG is mostly a placebo effect, and not enough to really worry about being addicted
 

deckley

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Steve, give up. I am.
If everyone here wants to be "right", let them. We must be wrong. The great and all powerful rolywhoever says so. Oberoniplayguitar says so. Doc Leary says so. Oberon pulled up 4 quotes to support the propaganda. Roly continually says his propaganda is correct. And the good doc gets the kids hooked on drugs, so he must be right. I haven't the stomach nor the time for this ignorant "I say so" garbage. Let the sheep be sheep and the Shepards lead them deeper down the rabbit hole.
It is refreshing to see someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't back down to cowards who continually say the same thing over and over and over again.
Go ahead folks, let the lashing begin! I won't be around to read it.
 

The Dog Guy

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Both rolygate and I have linked to articles that are based on science, not propaganda. There is a scientific method (I should post my lecture notes on this, just to piss the true believers off). Here's an easy one... I say all swans are white. You find a black swan (perhaps you are in Australia). I am proven wrong. The problem is that you can't even produce one true nicotine addict (i.e., black swan).

Um...but I did find a black swan! A copy was in Netflix! I'm so proud of myself
 

Oberon75

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I can see how it relates to vaping. E-cigs are now to be called NRT's Nicotine Replacement Therapy devices. :vapor:
Only to us vapers which the studies had absolutely nothing to do with.

But hey. I'm waiting for one of you ANTZ believers to post some science on the addiction of nicotine without tobacco.

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stevegmu

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Steve, give up. I am.
If everyone here wants to be "right", let them. We must be wrong. The great and all powerful rolywhoever says so. Oberoniplayguitar says so. Doc Leary says so. Oberon pulled up 4 quotes to support the propaganda. Roly continually says his propaganda is correct. And the good doc gets the kids hooked on drugs, so he must be right. I haven't the stomach nor the time for this ignorant "I say so" garbage. Let the sheep be sheep and the Shepards lead them deeper down the rabbit hole.
It is refreshing to see someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't back down to cowards who continually say the same thing over and over and over again.
Go ahead folks, let the lashing begin! I won't be around to read it.

You are correct. Sometimes it really appears to be addicts defending their addictions, nothing more...
 

The Dog Guy

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Steve, give up. I am.
If everyone here wants to be "right", let them. We must be wrong. The great and all powerful rolywhoever says so. Oberoniplayguitar says so. Doc Leary says so. Oberon pulled up 4 quotes to support the propaganda. Roly continually says his propaganda is correct. And the good doc gets the kids hooked on drugs, so he must be right. I haven't the stomach nor the time for this ignorant "I say so" garbage. Let the sheep be sheep and the Shepards lead them deeper down the rabbit hole.
It is refreshing to see someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't back down to cowards who continually say the same thing over and over and over again.
Go ahead folks, let the lashing begin! I won't be around to read it.

Ok, at least there is an upside I guess...
 

Oberon75

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Lets see. here's from the first one-

"For starters, nicotine by itself isn't very addictive at all, according to Dr. Paul Newhouse"

Very doesn't mean not...
Did you bother to click on any of the links? There are multiple clinical trials where nicotine was administered to never-smokers, for other purposes such as investigating its beneficial effects in treating certain medical conditions. The eight trials located so far involved hundreds of never-smokers in total. In some trials, high doses of nicotine were administered daily for several months. No subject, ever, in any trial, was reported to have experienced any sign of reinforcement, or withdrawal, or continued nicotine use after (and this was both examined and commented on). It was noted that nicotine had no potential for dependence in any of these trials.

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rolygate

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.... You may develop a lifelong addiction. Think about that for awhile before you make a decision.

Not without consumption of tobacco in some form, especially smoking. No one has ever been able to demonstrate nicotine dependence clinically or believe me we'd know about it!

In contrast, there are multiple clinical trials where they tried and failed to create any sign of dependence. Please read the references I have given in this thread. Or try arguing the point with Dr Newhouse of Vanderbilt, the leading authority on administration of large doses of nicotine to never-smokers for months at a time, with zero result.
 

The Dog Guy

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You are correct. Sometimes it really appears to be addicts defending their addictions, nothing more...

Says the man who vapes nicotine and has 6000+posts (70%argumentative) in a forum he doesn't care about...
I doubt even you believe you aren't hypocritical Steve. You Re too smart to believe your own BS today
 

Oberon75

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Steve, give up. I am.
If everyone here wants to be "right", let them. We must be wrong. The great and all powerful rolywhoever says so. Oberoniplayguitar says so. Doc Leary says so. Oberon pulled up 4 quotes to support the propaganda. Roly continually says his propaganda is correct. And the good doc gets the kids hooked on drugs, so he must be right. I haven't the stomach nor the time for this ignorant "I say so" garbage. Let the sheep be sheep and the Shepards lead them deeper down the rabbit hole.
It is refreshing to see someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't back down to cowards who continually say the same thing over and over and over again.
Go ahead folks, let the lashing begin! I won't be around to read it.
I'm just waiting for some science. I've produced mine and if you want to prove me wrong, at least have something solid to back it up with besides an opinion. If you can produce solid evidence that nicotine without tobacco is addictive, I'll retract everything I said. I'll even take it a step further and quote it in my sig.

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rolygate

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....the constant need for people to nit pick and correct others when it's obviously just a quick remark made out of genuine concern and desire to inform and enlighten others, I must say I am disgusted.
Good bye and hope it works out for the best.

A "quick remark" it isn't. For years I have been engaged in the search for any evidence that nicotine can create dependence without tobacco, and there isn't any.

People will take up smoking if that's what they were going to do anyway. I'd say it was quite likely too, if they used the useless gear with tiny nic strengths that is easily available in every gas station and corner store. It has been demonstrated several times in clinical trials that mini ecigs with low nic refills are a placebo, they supply zero or very little measurable plasma nic.

If people try a placebo and it doesn't work for them, then the chances of transitioning to smoking are probably increased.

We know it is not statistically significant because we have accurate and unbiased stats that show people do not routinely transition from vaping to smoking. You can argue about it with Prof West if you like. What it may show, on the other hand, is that the people you know of were very poorly mentored.
 

Oberon75

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Says the man who vapes nicotine and has 6000+posts (70%argumentative) in a forum he doesn't care about...
I doubt even you believe you aren't hypocritical Steve. You Re too smart to believe your own BS today
It's because he loves to debate. This guy would debate the color blue if there was a thread about it.

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