Noob Question- Does More Nic always = more throat hit?

[CanuckVapour16]

Just trying to see if this is the case. I've got some lovely juice from Jugheads at 18mg BUT it just isn't getting me off the analogs like I hoped. I'm planning on upping the nic to 24mg but the issue is I find the 18mg pretty strong on my throat. Now this juice is 100% VG so perhaps a 70/30 blend would help but I'm just looking for clarification for a poor noob.

Any assistance is appreciated!

 

[Mr.Mann]

No, not exactly, but nic is a good deal of the th. Based on what you are saying I would suggest checking out wat some of us are saying in the WTA is the future thread. Great th with a close to analog effect, not just nicotine relief. Oh, and you can actually get a nice stong,but comfortable, th at 12mg.

There are more things that can be addressed in your question, but this is what I have to offer at this point.

 

[CanuckVapour16]

K thx. I'll check it out when I get a chance

 

[Mr.Mann]

About to go home, but will check back later to talk...okay?

 

[RiPTrippers]

I started with 16 mg juice and had the same issue you are having. Now, I vape 100% vg @ 24mg nic level, and am loving it. It definitely fulfills my cravings. Hope this helps.

 

[Smokalo]

Menthol enhances the effects of nicotine, so adding menthol will most likely enhance throat hit.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Menthol enhances the effects of nicotine, so adding menthol will most likely enhance throat hit.

This is true, but a "real" menthol is harder to find than most people realize. That is why vapers are so happy to find a good menthol. Smokalo is correct, though.

 

[Smokalo]

This is true, but a "real" menthol is harder to find than most people realize. That is why vapers are so happy to find a good menthol. Smokalo is correct, though.

Smokalo, I don't know if you have tried it, but research P-38 juice.

I'm reading through some sites I pulled up on google and I can't seem to find out what exactly the P-38 juice is made out of. I generally look for E-liquids that are made from the simplest, most natural ingredients possible so I'm not sure if I would like to try out P-38. Also, it seems that it is only used with WTA juice which I am trying to stay away from as I want just the nicotine because when you get the alkaloids in the mix, the addiction mechanism of tobacco starts kicking in; Anatabine, which is one of the tobacco alkaloids, decreases monoamine-oxidase activity (the stuff which breaks down nicotine), which is one of the principal causes of nicotine dependency in tobacco users. Other tobacco alkaloids are simply carcinogenic and I would like to stay as far away from that as possible. Regular nicotine is fine with me

 

[nanovapr]

You might try higher PG ratio. People are different, but if you were a heavy smoker 24mg can be a good starting place.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'm reading through some sites I pulled up on google and I can't seem to find out what exactly the P-38 juice is made out of. I generally look for E-liquids that are made from the simplest, most natural ingredients possible so I'm not sure if I would like to try out P-38. Also, it seems that it is only used with WTA juice which I am trying to stay away from as I want just the nicotine because when you get the alkaloids in the mix, the addiction mechanism of tobacco starts kicking in; Anatabine, which is one of the tobacco alkaloids, decreases monoamine-oxidase activity (the stuff which breaks down nicotine), which is one of the principal causes of nicotine dependency in tobacco users. Other tobacco alkaloids are simply carcinogenic and I would like to stay as far away from that as possible. Regular nicotine is fine with me

This is not exactly on topic, but I would like to address this issue here.

I completely respect your opinion, but would also like to share my experience with you.

Before I got the WTA I would vape pretty much all day, and every couple of days get that feeling like I just drank a whole pot of coffee at once. I was in fact consuming a large load of nicotine trying to sleigh the dragon. I initially tried the WTA from Aroma because I was interested in the name "Red Tail Line" (some of you might understand why), the flavor and because it was all vg. When I got it, (DHT) Dark Honey Tobacco 12mg WTA, I simultaneously received a large shipment of a lot other standard juices from different vendors (all 18mg). I did what I normally would do and tried 'em all, except for the WTA. Lo and behold...Damn! This was one of those too much coffee feeling days! I didn't feel good in any way: I was uneasy, slightly nervous, and jumpy. So, I figured since I was still not exactly nicotine satisfied, in spite of the ill feelings, I decided to vape the Dark Honey Tobacco WTA from Aroma.

After 3-4 draws off my atty, I sat back and marveled at the flavor and th. I felt so satisfied to have found a clear winner in the taste department, because as we all know, there are a lot of not-so-good liquids out there. I left my vape station, sat on my couch and really began thinking about the flavor and how I would articulate it in a review. All I kept coming up with is, "man, that was awesome!"

I don't know how many minutes later it happened, but I realized after trying the DHT I put my pv down, felt totally chill and relaxed, and most of all, nicotine satisfied.

Now, my vaping frequency has gone down, thus nicotine consumption as well, and I have no dragon to sleigh. I am much more able to regulate my physical feelings and the effects of vaping with the inclusion of WTA. The past three or four days I vape WTA in the morning and go to work without my pv, versus dripping and vaping the entire shift (like I was doing). So, I totally understand why some are apprehensive to trying it and I cannot say that your experience will be the same...but, I am glad I have more control of my vaping habits and nicotine addiction. 12mg and it sets my day off perfectly (and taste great!).

 

[Smokalo]

This is not exactly on topic, but I would like to address this issue here.

I completely respect your opinion, but would also like to share my experience with you.

Before I got the WTA I would vape pretty much all day, and every couple of days get that feeling like I just drank a whole pot of coffee at once. I was in fact consuming a large load of nicotine trying to sleigh the dragon. I initially tried the WTA from Aroma because I was interested in the name "Red Tail Line" (some of you might understand why), the flavor and because it was all vg. When I got it, (DHT) Dark Honey Tobacco 12mg WTA, I simultaneously received a large shipment of a lot other standard juices from different vendors (all 18mg). I did what I normally would do and tried 'em all, except for the WTA. Lo and behold...Damn! This was one of those too much coffee feeling days! I didn't feel good in any way: I was uneasy, slightly nervous, and jumpy. So, I figured since I was still not exactly nicotine satisfied, in spite of the ill feelings, I decided to vape the Dark Honey Tobacco WTA from Aroma.

After 3-4 draws off my atty, I sat back and marveled at the flavor and th. I felt so satisfied to have found a clear winner in the taste department, because as we all know, there are a lot of not-so-good liquids out there. I left my vape station, sat on my couch and really began thinking about the flavor and how I would articulate it in a review. All I kept coming up with is, "man, that was awesome!"

I don't know how many minutes later it happened, but I realized after trying the DHT I put my pv down, felt totally chill and relaxed, and most of all, nicotine satisfied.

Now, my vaping frequency has gone down, thus nicotine consumption as well, and I have no dragon to sleigh. I am much more able to regulate my physical feelings and the effects of vaping with the inclusion of WTA. The past three or four days I vape WTA in the morning and go to work without my pv, versus dripping and vaping the entire shift (like I was doing). So, I totally understand why some are apprehensive to trying it and I cannot say that your experience will be the same...but, I am glad I have more control of my vaping habits and nicotine addiction. 12mg and it sets my day off perfectly (and taste great!).

Are you experiencing any withdrawal symptoms when you don't vape for a day or anything of that sort? Also, did you ever not vape for a longer than normal period of time and then when you took a hit of the DHT liquid, felt a rush, or something like taking a hit from a cigarette after not having one for a day or two? I would assume WTA juice would be much more similar to an actual cigarette, tobacco product as the alkaloids do effect the way nicotine is used in your body. It is definitely still much better than a cigarette since there is no tar and byproducts of tobacco combustion, which can produce crazy chemicals, such as the largest isotope of Plutonium. However, I see that I still have a nicotine craving when using just pure nicotine, as the use of any psychoactive stimulant, like caffeine, will do that to you, but I know it is a psychological addiction vs. a physiological addiction, which is easier on your body. Regarding the monoamine-oxidase inhibitor alkaloids in tobacco, those are the ones that cause the physiological addiction. My understanding as to why people can vape all day using pure nicotine, and before, when they used to smoke, they were able to get by with just 10 cigarettes a day, is because the monoamine-oxidase in your body breaks down the nicotine before you can experience its full effects. However, when you add an MAOI, the nicotine remains in the synaptic cleft for a prolonged period of time as the MAO is hindered in breaking down the nicotine, increasing the effects of nicotine. I don't know which one is easier on your body (vaping a lot of pure nicotine and letting your body naturally break it down vs. vaping smaller amounts of nicotine with an MAOI to increase the effects of nicotine) but I know that most researchers point to the MAOI in tobacco as the cause of the addiction, which is compared to certain class-A drugs by many addiction studies professors I ran into. Both sides of the story seem to have their flaws, as vaping massive amounts of pure nicotine is definitely not something good, but unless they separate the carcinogenic alkaloids from the MAOI alkaloids, I would rather just vape pure nicotine. I can definitely say that I do experience a "crash," like after you drink a pot of coffee in the morning and you feel like a zombie in the afternoon, if I vape a lot at one time, although I see that compared to some forum users, I'm still vaping a small amount (I probably go through 10ml of 12-18mg liquid every 2-3 weeks); I've read some threads in which people were stating that they vape 10ml a day, which I can't imagine anyone doing. But all in all, it's still better than smoking cigarettes

 

[Deathnote4U]

This is true, but a "real" menthol is harder to find than most people realize. That is why vapers are so happy to find a good menthol. Smokalo is correct, though.

Not sure if you are aware of this, but almost any pharmacy will sell you pure food grade or usp menthol crystals at a dollar per gram. these are easily liquified and added to any juice. I get mine from the pharmacy in zellers or walmart usualy. If you need details on liquifing just let me know. The flavour of your juice will also effect th level, for instance I find chocolate @ 24mg is week and cappuccino @ 24 mg is quite strong. In general coffee flavours feel quite a bit stronger than say fruit flavours and so on. You may also find that after a day or three you loose the th because you are growing accustomed to the flavour and strength. It is a good idea to rotate your flavours and reset your taste buds frequently, hope this helps.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Since I vape less, I vape less. I don't particularly like being addicted to anything, so if consumption goes down, then I have progressed. No, I don't get withdrawal symptoms, but I only go 6-10 hours without (even though that is incredible considering I would vape anywhere all day). Do I get a rush after going a while without vaping and then vape WTA? Yes...well, sort of. It isn't intense or anything, but there is a pleasant feeling that last longer than the time from inhale to exhale. I don't get speedy, which is seriously not good, and I am more comfortable, if not confident, without my pv. Whether physiological or psychological, WTA it ends up being more economical and reliable than standard liquid.

p.s. My consumption of standard liquid slowly increased as the months went by, as well as my nic level. WTA has enabled me to be away from my vape station breathing nic all day...and that is GREAT!

I really love the tone of your posts, really decent and approachable! Thanks for the back and forth.

***edit*** Was this a "good tone" in your posts, or a just salesmanship? http://www.smokalo.com/



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Smokalo]

Since I vape less, I vape less. I don't particularly like being addicted to anything, so if consumption goes down, then I have progressed. No, I don't get withdrawal symptoms, but I only go 6-10 hours without (even though that is incredible considering I would vape anywhere all day). Do I get a rush after going a while without vaping and then vape WTA? Yes...well, sort of. It isn't intense or anything, but there is a pleasant feeling that last longer than the time from inhale to exhale. I don't get speedy, which is seriously not good, and I am more comfortable, if not confident, without my pv. Whether physiological or psychological, WTA it ends up being more economical and reliable than standard liquid.

p.s. My consumption of standard liquid slowly increased as the months went by, as well as my nic level. WTA has enabled me to be away from my vape station breathing nic all day...and that is GREAT!

I really love the tone of your posts, really decent and approachable! Thanks for the back and forth.

No problem, it's always better to discuss than to argue

 

[nanovapr]

{snip}However, I see that I still have a nicotine craving when using just pure nicotine {/snop}

For clarity, and the safety of future readers, you are of course not vaping pure nicotine, or you would be dead. 2.4 % pure nic in a liquid would be considered high strength liquid. When I started, I was using 24mg liquid. I started vaping to just cut down on smoking and save some $$$, and after a few weeks realized I could quit. I had several battery deaths, and the first few months were fairly stressful. I was interested in WTA, but after I got my devices sorted out and found juice I liked (DIY, in my case), vaping has been a pleasure.

Now I vape less than I ever smoked, and am happy at 10 mg liquid. People are different, try several things!

 

[Kemosabe]

it confounds me how some 24mg juices hit weaker than some 18mg juices i have. it does indeed come down to the flavorings. thats what i think anyway.

you do need a good amount of nic to have the TH in the first place though. i think the flavorings just enhance it.

Bounty Hunter is a prime example of this. and its amazing how Gene (NLV) does it as he says that the flavoring on BH is only 5.5%!

 

[melloyello]

does bwb's applewood tobacco give as good of a TH as BH?

 

[cigarbabe]

I'm not sure why you think you are vaping "pure nicotine" number one and all juice has trace amounts of WTA I believe.
C.B.

 

[cigarbabe]

This is post from an ECF member who has done quite a bit of research on WTA's and whom I believe is one of the most informed here on ECF about WTA's. Sadly ECF closed the thread I'm guessing because some members can't control themselves when others disagree with his views and possibly because some of us disagree with ECF's stance on WTA's in general.....I can never be sure why they do what they do....
C.B.

WTA / tobacco alkaloids :

95% nicotine
2-3% nornicotine
2-3% anatabine
0.3% anabasine

plus a few more at < 0.1%

E-liquid and WTA are 95% the same. Both are tobacco products. The only difference is that nic-only e-liquid removes the other alkaloids for no good reason; just the assumption that nicotine being the most significant by percentage must be the key. It is not the whole story - that's why nic. patches barely work. E-cigs do better because mimic the psycho-behavioural aspects of smking. But for many, they will puff incessantly on the nic only liquids and never be satiated; eventually drawn back to analogs.

Nicotine is the most 'dangerous' thing in it. With WTA, less is more; and that really does reduce any risks with nicotine or PG/VG or flavors.

I have studied this for some years. I have no involvement in any commercial ventures with WTA.

The scare mongering about WTA is exactly the same type of scare mongering about nic-only e-liquid. That anti-science nonsense could imperil the health of millions for who nicotine alone does not work (about half of smokers).

Last edited by kinabaloo; 10-15-2011 at 02:00 AM.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Thanks for that, cigarbabe! The more info the better, though I still will only give anectdotal "evidence" when talking about it. I am no scientist, or even all that versed in the language, but I do know that it has really made a big difference in my vaping style...for the BETTER!