Numb, tingly hands, funny electric shock feeling when you bend your head to your chest?

[shanagan]

I'm not soliciting advice on this one - I am under a doctor's care. Just trying to find out if anyone has/had the following symptoms and getting all the buzzwords in:
Numb and tingly / numbness & tingling in hands, feet, torso - anywhere, really
Odd feeling kind of like having a layer of extra skin, or having reduced/just "off" sensations
Feeling an electric shock type feeling when you bend your chin to your chest
Any reduced/altered sensation similar to your hands/legs falling asleep

These aren't temporary like from sitting in one position too long - they stay with you. All of these (except the shock thing - that's called Lhermitte's sign and can have a range of causes) are called paresthesia or neuropathy, and if you are experiencing them, PLEASE contact your general physician immediately. If there's a link between us, it can get worse, in a hurry.

I am not a doctor and am not giving medical advise in any way, just letting you know if it's there, get it checked out ASAP.

 

[AnaCat]

I have had those symptoms for years (I've only been vaping for 5 days). My symptoms were caused by herniated cervical disks, diabetes, dysautonomia, and smoking (yeah, I'm a mess). I'm only a nurse (not a doc), so I can't be sure, but I'm thinking vaping would not be the likely cause of these symptoms. Smoking and long-standing poorly controlled diabetes are well known for causing neuropathy. If you have those symptoms, yes, you should see a doctor.

 

[joegti240]

Dont worry, everyone here will give you every excuse in the book that your ailment is not ecig related.

 

[Kams Cats]

I have had paresthesia for years. Comes from my Hypothyroidism. Have had it so bad in the past that it has gone all the way up to my knees and made walking very difficult.

Since I quit smoking it got worse. Was warned ahead of time it would. Had to get the meds adjusted.

There are a lot of things that cause paresthesia and like symptoms. Many of them caused by smoking/nicotine and many don't show up while smoking but do after quitting. Some of them are PAD, Atherosclerosis, hypothyroidism, diabetes. That is not even the full list. It is something that anyone experiencing them should get checked out by a Doctor.

 

[Puffy545]

I had that too and it turned out I was hyperventilating. You have to keep in mind that your getting more air than with analogs.

 

[Kams Cats]

I had that too and it turned out I was hyperventilating. You have to keep in mind that your getting more air than with analogs.

I can see that happening. When I dropped my nic level I was inhaling deeper and with lungs that are feeling better. I got terrible heartburn and GERD symptoms. I stopped inhaling so deeply and it cleared up right away.

Paresthesia that is not transient is usually a serious sign of an illness that has been going on for some time. I was actually lucky that mine was not caused by some of the other things my Doctor looked for. I will tell you the very first thing was a chest and spinal xray. Then the heart and the rest of the stuff. It was a relief to actually be diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.

My brother has is because his heart is in such bad shape.

 

[yohann976]

Dont worry, everyone here will give you every excuse in the book that your ailment is not ecig related.

I can say, without a doubt, that it wasn't the ecigs because...I'm kidding. I know a lot of people don't want to hear about any possible health ramifications from using ecigs, but some are very open to discussion.

 

[AnaCat]

Dont worry, everyone here will give you every excuse in the book that your ailment is not ecig related.

You make a good point. If the symptoms were not there before starting e-cigs, then perhaps there is a connection. Either way, though, symptoms like that should be checked by a qualified healthcare provider.

 

[Automaton]

Yes, it is so important to always get symptoms like this checked out.

I've had these sorts of symptoms for years, so bad at one point that my doctors thought I had MS. My hands were completely useless, my back had to be taped and I was in agony. I was 16 or 17 when it reached its boiling point.

It turned out to be a cascading tidal wave of Repetitive Stress Injuries, which had been building for years, and which I had foolishly written off as just needing to work some kinks out.

I've been doing a lot better the past 3 years or so and have gained back enough functionality that I look normal at first blush, but it never goes away completely. I let it get bad enough that I don't know if it ever will. Had I taken it more seriously, earlier, thing may have been different. Instead I'm a gimp at 21. I still work on it, all the time, and I do make little baby steps of progress sometimes... but wow is it slow. This is not a nice place to find yourself.

So moral of the story... yes, get these sorts of symptoms checked out immediately. Hell, I was lucky it was RSI and not MS. And the million other things it could be, as well. Anything that has changed in your life prior to the onset of symptoms is obviously something to look into.

 

[silkakc]

I had them too. I was just vitamin B12 deficiencient and mildly anemic. It started a year before Ecigs and was probably caused by taking stomach acid-reducer meds/PPI's. They are notorious for causing deficiencies that Dr's never tell you about ( B12, iron and magnesium).

 

[shanagan]

For what it's worth, I'd like to point out that I am not blaming vaping - though I always appreciate a good internet diagnosis - but I have a lesion on my spinal cord that is diagnosed as acute transverse myelitis. For whatever reason (I am exceedingly healthy and it's not MS - my spinal tap was perfectly clear as were my MRI's) my immune system decided to "attack" the myelin sheath protecting my spinal cord. This has caused my paresthesia. I'm lucky, it could've been much, much worse (think total paralysis). The cause remains unclear. I no longer vape, unfortunately. (My doctor has another patient in her late 30's/early 40's who developed bell's palsy w/in days of beginning using an ecig and we both kind of feel the same way - any possible relationship between nerve damage & vaping is completely anecdotal but it's a bit like touching a hot pot handle: do it once and you're likely not to do it again.)

I would just like to point out that if you are experiencing any of these symptoms, PLEASE contact your doctor, do not rely on board advice.

ETA: I originally thought low b12 was to blame and caused the lesion on my spinal cord, but apparently the shape/size of the lesion indicated to my neurologist that it was not b12 induced. So, I'm just a special snowflake after all: 1,400 ppl are diagnosed a year with transverse myelitis. Of those, less than a third have no known cause for the attack. I'm in that 1/3rd. So one in about 466. Crazy.

 

[Zelphie]

This is disturbing. I cant make any connections between my symptoms and vaping but Im always concerned with the possibilities. I have some neurological problems, MS and chiari malformation, so Im quite uneasy about inhaling something that has the potential to be neurotoxic like pg/vg and many of the flavorings. That just based on MSDS, wish I had more to go on. But just like anything else, who knows if m even getting enough to make a dent or not. Doesnt matter, I worry cause I cant afford not to. The luxury of proceeding based on a lack of 100% proof that is isnt harmful is too risky for some depending on what your trying to avoid. I smoke full time again, and vape once in a while though anxiously. I think I may be more comfortable with cancer and death than getting more lesions since autoimmune disorders can react to random things in weird ways.
Again, Im not blaming vaping, Im just saying....

Shan, Sorry to hear about the demyelination of your wacky lesion and your equally wacky symtoms.

Vape on! lol, or not. Whatever.

Edit: Ive been searching around a bit and Im finding conflicting information on whether pg/vg and some artificial flavorings/sweeteners are really neurotoxic. The msds for pg does NOT specifically say it is, but it does say it can be toxic to the CNS, not exactly the same thing. At this point I cannot find explicit scientific statements that these things are neurotoxic, although I still suspect/worry many can act as such in certain situations.
If anyone diggs something up that shows something more definitive, please let me know.

 

[halonut]

no doubt about it....cat avatars & signatures are the cause of these problems.

 

[shanagan]

Zelphie, we're in the same boat, kiddo. I don't "believe" the ecigs caused this, but am unable to trust that based on the past six months of my life and the fact that I will likely have this condition for the rest of my life.

And it sucks - I MISS vaping and the friends I'd made here like crazy. (I kind of have to stay away now, because the forums make me want to vape.) Given some of my own research into the "diones" - more specifically the diketones - and proven neurological damage caused by similar compounds, it just isn't something I can risk. (Hexanedione is an example of another safe-for-ingestion food flavoring giving a nutty/creamy/caramel flavor profile which is a neurological toxin when inhaled - please note, I am NOT saying that hexanedione/acetyl butyryl is used in juice, just that it bears similarities to others in the diketone group that are used as flavorings in liquid. I just wonder if maybe inhaling anything in that diketone group has the potential to cause neuro problems - it just takes a few vaping guinea pigs to find out. The rub is that they're, of course, safe to ingest, so anyone might mix these substances into juice w/out realizing the potential for harm.)

It sucks for us, I guess, Z.

 

[Zelphie]

@ halonut
Let a stone not be uncovered. Ill look into that.

 

[Zelphie]

I hear that. I still vape a little now and again but I miss the full on "vape your brains out" sessions. Gee I hope thats not what I was doing, lol. Kidding!
Diketones are looking quite scary and just a quick look on pub med and I see that hexanedione can be quite an evil substance, neurotoxic indeed. Ive also been wondering about tetramethylpyrazine but I cant find any decent info. How I wish we could know what we are vaping, but even in food, no one obligated to elaborate on what constitutes "natural and artificial flavorings" so we sure are not going to get this info on eliquids.
Its interesting that you bring up the relationships between substance families. So for the benefit of all: (Lawyer mode) Im not saying that different chemicals in the same or similar families have the same or similar properties or health effects and/or potentials or the very risk of potentials, OR that there even used in liquid, OR that even if they were, that the level is enough to make any clinically significant impact. BUT its also interesting that I read that ethylene glycol may be able to cause facial palsy. (Lawyer mode) I do realize that only one crappy cart of days past found *insignificant* levels in only ONE cheap Chinese cart and that it is NOT the same as propylene glycol in any toxicological and/or clinical way in regards to health effects, potentials, or very risk of potentials, but I have to wonder does it share ANY similar properties. Maybe if only that they are slightly sweet, or clear, or draw moisture to them, or that they can be vaporized, or that they have many and varied applications, OR maybe that they can damage nerves under very limited and special snowflake kind of ways? Probably not, its probably the differences that makes that possible rather than the similarities but I gotta ask.
Just for clarification to other readers, Im aware that neurotoxicity and nerve damage can be different things, I am talking about both, and not just in reference to ecigs, but also including other ways in which neuro problems may be tweaked.
There is also a never ending controversy about the neurotoxic potential of artificial sweeteners but when I look at actual scientific information, it says that there has never been any proof of this being so. I did once ask a doctor if artificial sweeteners are neurotoxic (not my neuro but a Gp) and he said “we don’t know”. That’s interesting. Might there be some more concern kept under the hat of researchers. I find this interesting because I drink a ton of diet soda a day and have for years. I feel the same way about that as I do smoking and vaping and many other things that constitute modern society. Take this with a grain of salt, (or maybe 2) but Ive heard that some neuro’s may try elimination diets just to see if any food or environmental sensitivities can worsen some symptoms of autoimmune disorders, possibly including some of the types of things we are talking about here. This tells me that at least some doctors take seriously what is not generally proven to cause or worsen problems. Again, maybe theres some “under the hat” head scratching.

Zelphie, we're in the same boat, kiddo. I don't "believe" the ecigs caused this, but am unable to trust that based on the past six months of my life and the fact that I will likely have this condition for the rest of my life.

And it sucks - I MISS vaping and the friends I'd made here like crazy. (I kind of have to stay away now, because the forums make me want to vape.) Given some of my own research into the "diones" - more specifically the diketones - and proven neurological damage caused by similar compounds, it just isn't something I can risk. (Hexanedione is an example of another safe-for-ingestion food flavoring giving a nutty/creamy/caramel flavor profile which is a neurological toxin when inhaled - please note, I am NOT saying that hexanedione/acetyl butyryl is used in juice, just that it bears similarities to others in the diketone group that are used as flavorings in liquid. I just wonder if maybe inhaling anything in that diketone group has the potential to cause neuro problems - it just takes a few vaping guinea pigs to find out. The rub is that they're, of course, safe to ingest, so anyone might mix these substances into juice w/out realizing the potential for harm.)

It sucks for us, I guess, Z.

 

[Automaton]

I've been gone a while, but I think I'd like to chime in with you ladies and where you're at. Forgive my lack of context. Unfortunately I am not in a position to provide much context, so it is what it is.

But I've now joined you, and stopped vaping. I wasn't noticing any effect on my neurology, or my pre-existing RSI's, but I did experience building throat irritation, which if you watch enough vaping videos, doesn't seem uncommon. I'm 21 years old. I got a long way to go (hopefully) and taking this kind of risk with what I now know is simply not worth it for me. If I was 65, it may be a different story.

I am on and off cigarettes. But I'm kind of ok with that right now. My throat and lungs feel "normal" again (or at least, normal for when I smoked). I've got time to figure this out, and I know exactly what the risks and the timeline are like for me, given my age, genetics, and the duration of my smoking. I can't say the same for vaping.

This has lead to a very long conversation with myself about the material I have here and other places, my involvement here in general, etc. That internal conversation has not yet reached its conclusion.

But I thought I'd just tell you where I got to in all this.

 

[shanagan]

Zelphie, I've always been of the "eh, death is going to get you sooner or later, let's not sweat the small stuff" attitude - then you realize that's true... but there's interim damage that can be done as well. And you have to live with it. That's kind of a game-changer.

Nomad, I'm sorry to hear you've had some issues, I know that must be a bigger hit for you than for many of us. But I think it always comes back to weighing your potential risks versus rewards ("rewards"?). The trouble is that we just don't know the potential risks, really. I'm glad to see you here, because I think given your (and our!) history, it lends some credence to the fact that we have to allow that vaping isn't necessarily all unicorns and puppy kisses. It's still a substance our bodies aren't designed to intake, and we need to keep an active discussion going on possible side-effects.

Maybe in particular those of us who've stopped vaping for whatever reason need to remember to chime in once in a while - ECF is a huge community, and we might be the only chance of catching a stray googler who is wondering why their throat is irritated, or arms are numb, or whatever the case may be.

 

[Avanna]

A good friend of mine has multiple sclerosis yet was a puzzling diagnoses since his MRI and spinal tap was clear also. MRI would show lesions on the brain and/or the spinal cord, but not necessarily both. The tap has been said not to be a clear cut indicator of whether one has MS or not.

Of course they claim that smoking cigarettes makes MS worse as well so I don't know if someone who vapes might also aggravate an existing neurological problem. I'm just guessing, but I imagine that vaping would aggravate many existing conditions, including asthma, copd, etc.

But yes, those symptoms you describe are definitely of the MS variety, no doubt. I pray your lesion heals and you feel better soon! Perhaps some extra vitamins and good dose of sunlight therapy, too.

 

[shanagan]

Thank you, Avanna. I was pleased with the "no MS" diagnosis, but unfortunately transverse myelitis by itself leaves many more questions in its wake - and few answers. (It is often a symptom of MS, but also occurs by itself, as it appears to in my case. Additionally, I'm on the verge, age-wise, of MS being an unusual "new" diagnosis. Not unheard of at 40, but not the norm at all either.

As I mentioned I am under a neurologist's care, and she feels satisfied it is true acute idiopathic (unknown cause) transverse myelitis, so I have to trust that she is correct.

Sunlight & vitamins never hurt a thing - nor does reminding myself that it could've been much, much worse.