Official DNA 40 introduction

[BigBen01]

It is not recommended to glow the coils either by torching or firing.

How do I get my coils tight to prevent shorts without torching? How do we know if they glow from the inside out?

 

[RebelGolfer72]

How do I get my coils tight to prevent shorts without torching? How do we know if they glow from the inside out?

In addition to that, I also wonder how folks are removing any oils or other impurities left over from the manufacturing process. Normally torching or even dry firing the coil would burn those off

 

[SeniorBoy]

I'm watching the Brandon and Phil video again and Brandon mentions #1 Temper Ni200 wire which you can order. He says it's "stiffer" than the annealed Ni200 wire we all have. He also says he doesn't have any of the #1 Temper Ni200???

QUESTION: Where can I order or obtain #1 Temper Ni200 wire? Anywhere on the face of the planet. /lol

 

[KGie]

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So, his studies have been helpful, but could hurt as well. Science is the statement of a hypothesis (educated guess), and collect facts that support this.
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And facts that don't.

 

[Kumatesh]

And facts that don't.

Right. In science, you start with a null hypothesis. Basically, you start from a position that there is no relationship and then setting out to disprove (not prove) that hypothesis

 

[BigBen01]

I'm watching the Brandon and Phil video again and Brandon mentions #1 Temper Ni200 wire which you can order. He says it's "stiffer" than the annealed Ni200 wire we all have. He also says he doesn't have any of the #1 Temper Ni200???

QUESTION: Where can I order or obtain #1 Temper Ni200 wire? Anywhere on the face of the planet. /lol

I have not seen it anywhere either. Is it a conspiracy?

 

[peraspera]

I'm watching the Brandon and Phil video again and Brandon mentions #1 Temper Ni200 wire which you can order. He says it's "stiffer" than the annealed Ni200 wire we all have. He also says he doesn't have any of the #1 Temper Ni200???

QUESTION: Where can I order or obtain #1 Temper Ni200 wire? Anywhere on the face of the planet. /lol

Doubt if they would be interested in selling a 100 ft. roll but this was all I could find in the way of tempered Ni200.

Ulbrich | Nickel 200 | UNS N02200 | ASTM B162
Properties: Tempered
Nickel 200 can be cold rolled to various tempers. Contact Ulbrich Technical Service for additional information
...
Heat Treatment
Nickel 200 is non hardenable by heat treatment.

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

How do I get my coils tight to prevent shorts without torching? How do we know if they glow from the inside out?

I haven't tried anything yet, but have been thinking about it. I am going to try and torch the nickle wire when I get some just to see if it will hold up to torching, heavy to lite. I also invision cleaning it off with a paper towel and vodka to try & remove chemicals and such. Again, this is just me think at this point.

 

[dr g]

How do I get my coils tight to prevent shorts without torching? How do we know if they glow from the inside out?

It's ultimately your decision how to handle your coils. It's not really a good idea to torch or glow ANY coil material, so we've been taking risks for years. In some instances it may just not be possible to do without it, or you may be okay with the risk of the small amount of oxide that forms.

Personally I have been able to build good coils without glowing them. You can fire them under temp mode and you will see if there are any hot spots though.

 

[EuroChris]

Personally, I'm divided on whether I should torch it or not. If you do decide to torch/dry burn them, you will burn off machine oil and you will get rid of hot spots, but you might release nickel. If you don't torch or dry burn them, you will not get rid of potential machine oil, but you will not release any nickel.

I think I will try both, and stick with what gives me the best flavor, as I believe(and this is not by any means science) the best option will give the purest flavor.

 

[KFarsalinos]

It's no secret that the way the government is wanting to regulate vaping to the point that the open system of having your choice of any juice flavor out there, in any rebuildable topper, powered by any mod will be a thing of the past. To contain it, they want us using prefilled "tamper resistant" cartos, powered by cigalike batteries. Big tobacco also wants this, and is moving to break into the vaping world with these kinds of systems. Farsalinos studies so far have shown a large number of juices could be unsafe. If he says that high power vaping can be dangerous, that is the ammo to outlaw mech mods and rebuildables. While many of us would take the studies as advice and use good judgement, the fact that some will not, is enough to outlaw it (up for a game of Jarts anyone?)

So, his studies have been helpful, but could hurt as well. Science is the statement of a hypothesis (educated guess), and collect facts that support this. As intelligent beings, it's good that we challenge these conclusions. Many factors, or new facts can be discovered every day. Likewise, the methods used to collect and record data can be faulty. We are human, make mistakes..likewise, recreations and simulations done in the lab do not always accurately reflect real world experience.

Again, not faulting or discounting his work, which I respect tremendously. I'm just saying read his work, and learn some facts, but don't be afraid to question any or all of it. Don't be afraid to think outside of the box.

With all that said, I believe that Evolv have just taken a huge step in helping us "advanced vapers" with the temp limiting. Not only are we promised a better, safer experience (and I know the tech is good, but it is the first attempt at it.. Expect even better implementation in future releases. ). Arguably, what they are doing is not really a new concept, as signal limiting has been used for decades in the music and broadcast worlds. I don't think that using this idea for vaping is revolutionary, as it was only a matter of time. What I consider brilliant is the actual execution, which Evolv pulled off. And by that I call them innovative. This innovation, though is going to be just one more step toward the industry taking proactive steps to counter things that those against vaping are going to hit us with. With Evolv being partnered with Innokin, subsequently dipping their toes into temperature limiting devices will be a huge step for us.

I should have a DNA40 board Monday, and can't wait to experience the new way to look at vaping!

You are exploring the issue of e-cigarettes from a political perspective, which in my opinion is wrong.
First of all, knowledge never hurts anyone. So, IF high wattage is unsafe, who will get hurt by knowing it? Science is not politics, and we do not work in such a way.
But allow me to expand to the political aspect. First of all, it is naive to think that if we do not study something it will never be revealed. A typical example is the diacetyl study. About 1 month ago i received a phone call from a US University (West Coast) informing me that they were funded to perform the exact same study, and they had even contacted the CDC to ask for advice on the analytical method used (and the CDC suggested our method). Of course, when they saw my publication they changed plans. So, if someone believes that by hidding something (or not researching a specific subject) we will be able to get away with it, not only he is wrong but the damage will be even worse. Do you think that, if an opponent examined the diacetyl issue, he would have ever mentioned the respective levels of diacetyl in tobacco smoke? I can reassure you: NO WAY. The study would have been headline news, and the damage would have been huge.
Moreover, there is no way that subohm or VW devices will ever be banned. Don't forget, these are just electronic and lithium battery products, so none can really ban them. Moreover, i do not see any reason to ban these devices. They have been proven to be most successful in substituting smoking, and till now i have found many reasons to endorse the use of such devices and no reason to restrict them.

 

[KFarsalinos]

Dry burn helps in nothing but accelerating the thermal breakdown of the metal. Use acetone and water or ethanol to clean the wires before making the coils. It is really useless and probably harmful to dry-burn the coils.

I am about to receive the DNA device witin the next few days. It is going to be rigorously tested, not only in terms of temps but also in terms of aldehyde release (compared to regular VW devices AND tobacco cigarette smoke)...

 

[Heespharm]

Dry burn helps in nothing but accelerating the thermal breakdown of the metal. Use acetone and water or ethanol to clean the wires before making the coils. It is really useless and probably harmful to dry-burn the coils.

I am about to receive the DNA device witin the next few days. It is going to be rigorously tested, not only in terms of temps but also in terms of aldehyde release (compared to regular VW devices AND tobacco cigarette smoke)...

Yay dr farsalinos! Finally a scientific perspective instead of endless conjecture... Is there any way you could test nickel content in the vape? That has been of high concern to many people

 

[KFarsalinos]

We are in the process of setting up the lab in a university to measure metals in vapor. We hope the crowdfunding campaign will be successful enough to allow us to porceed with these tests. It is important because we can easily detect which metals are safer to use, and the industry could make use of this information easily and without elevating the cost of the products.

 

[Heespharm]

Just FYI http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=243&tid=44 it says that low level nickel exposure over long periods did not produce cancer cells... That's good to know..

 

[SeniorBoy]

@Dr. Farsalinos - Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to "educate" some of our members. I'm confident that most of us are not only grateful for your presence but also appreciate your dedication, integrity, and valuable contributions to the Vaping Community.

Everyone else: I don't want to sound like a broken record but PLEASE ask your vendors to contribute to this critical study at http://igg.me/at/ecig-temp/x/8846317. And of course, nothing is stopping us "consumers" from contributing.


/Steve

 

[KGie]

Just FYI ATSDR - Public Health Statement: Nickel it says that low level nickel exposure over long periods did not produce cancer cells... That's good to know..

That might be what you get from it, but it's in no way what I get from it. Just one small quote from a number of different statements that are relevant:

"The most serious harmful health effects from exposure to nickel, such as chronic bronchitis, reduced lung function, and cancer of the lung and nasal sinus, have occurred in people who have breathed dust containing certain nickel compounds while working in nickel refineries or nickel-processing plants."

The problem is, we would be putting something that may be emitting nickel fumes into our mouths and breathing it directly into our lungs, multiple times per day. Make that multiple times per hour or minute. There's simply no data on what kind of exposure that generates. We don't know if we'd be getting no nickel fumes at all, low-level exposure, or potentially a very high level exposure. (For anyone interested in the stupefying details, there are numerous other parts of that article that are relevant, some comforting, some not so much.)

The bottom line is it's still an open question. One that I'm hoping Dr. Farsalino's research will answer.

 

[MadMeathead]

What I want to know (I'll admit it; I didn't peruse all 40 pages) is which companies are releasing coils in nickel. I really like the temp limiting aspect for multiple reasons, but I'm not overly interested in wrapping my own coils if I can avoid it.

 

[Heespharm]

That might be what you get from it, but it's in no way what I get from it. Just one small quote of a number of different sections that are relevant:

"The most serious harmful health effects from exposure to nickel, such as chronic bronchitis, reduced lung function, and cancer of the lung and nasal sinus, have occurred in people who have breathed dust containing certain nickel compounds while working in nickel refineries or nickel-processing plants."

And the problem is, we would be putting something that may be emitting nickel fumes into our mouths and breathing it directly into our lungs, multiple times per day. Make that multiple times per hour or minute. We don't know if we're breathing any nickel fumes at all, nor if we are how much, nor how toxic or harmless they may be. And there are numerous other sections from the same article I could quote that are relevant.

The bottom line is it's still an open question. One that I'm hoping Dr. Farsalino's research will answer.

But that's at really really stupid high concentration which is explained in the next sentence after your quote:

The levels of nickel in these workplaces were much higher than usual (background) levels in the environment. Lung and nasal sinus cancers occurred in workers who were exposed to more than 10 mg nickel/m� as nickel compounds that were hard to dissolve (such as nickel subsulfide). Exposure to high levels of nickel compounds that dissolve easily in water (soluble) may also result in cancer when nickel compounds that are hard to dissolve (less soluble) are present, or when other chemicals that can produce cancer are present.


Let's hope the nickel byproducts produced by the nickel wire are benign hopefully the study will illuminate that

 

[Rossum]

What I want to know (I'll admit it; I didn't peruse all 40 pages) is which companies are releasing coils in nickel. I really like the temp limiting aspect for multiple reasons, but I'm not overly interested in wrapping my own coils if I can avoid it.

IIRC, Brandon said that both Kanger and Innokin were going to make 'em.