Ohms, watts, vapor, flavor?

[peppinoss]

I have a quick question about ohms and resistance. I hear alot of people talk about low resistance and sub ohms and all that stuff, but does it actually make any difference in your vape? Just seems to me that everything ends up being equal. Using low resistance, less volts is required. Maybe the advantage here is that your battery lasts a bit longer. So using higher resistance, will require more volts and will use your battery faster. As far as vape goes, how do different resistances make any difference in your vape? I have used 1.7ohms, 2.5ohms, and 3 ohms ad after i dial in the proper volts in my vamo the vapes all seem the same to me. Might be dumb question, but why does resistance matter? Why do people want sub ohm stuff? is there something im missing here?

thanks!

 

[retic1959]

They are chasing clouds with the sub ohm stuff.

 

[peppinoss]

Thats what i don't understand, how would using a sub ohm give you huge clouds of vapor?

 

[fatb0y]

I have a quick question about ohms and resistance. I hear alot of people talk about low resistance and sub ohms and all that stuff, but does it actually make any difference in your vape? Just seems to me that everything ends up being equal. Using low resistance, less volts is required. Maybe the advantage here is that your battery lasts a bit longer. So using higher resistance, will require more volts and will use your battery faster. As far as vape goes, how do different resistances make any difference in your vape? I have used 1.7ohms, 2.5ohms, and 3 ohms ad after i dial in the proper volts in my vamo the vapes all seem the same to me. Might be dumb question, but why does resistance matter? Why do people want sub ohm stuff? is there something im missing here?

thanks!

I imagine your resistance doesn't matter if you keep adjusting your setup every time to produce the same wattage. But the thing is when we go low resistance, we hit it at like ~4.2v on a fresh battery.

Try each resistance you have at 4v and you should immediately notice the difference.

EDIT: Here, just punch in voltage and resistance. http://www.crownaudio.com/ohms-law.htm the higher the watts the bigger the clouds. check the wattage on your own setup, and then check the wattage on a setup with 1.2omhs@4.2v and another one for 0.7ohms@4.2v.

 

[onion456]

another part of the picture is the gauge of the wire. i believe sub-ohmers are using thicker wire, which has less resistance but would not get as hot at the same voltage a smaller wire would. i am far from the expert, as i dont do this, but this seems to be a major part of the puzzle from what ive read. (experts please chime in now =)

 

[ClippinWings]

another part of the picture is the gauge of the wire. i believe sub-ohmers are using thicker wire, which has less resistance but would not get as hot at the same voltage a smaller wire would. i am far from the expert, as i dont do this, but this seems to be a major part of the puzzle from what ive read. (experts please chime in now =)

You're on the right track...

(I'll try and keep this simple... I do acknowledge what forum I'm in)

2" of 32 gauge wire(thin) = 2.4ohms
2" of 28 gauge wire(thick) = 0.9ohms

So I can get the same number of wraps, the same length of coil, but do it at a lower resistance, and using a thicker wire, it heats more slowly and has a larger surface area in contact with the juicy wick.

0.9 ohms at 4v is a hell of a lot more impressive vape than 2.4ohms would be at 6.5v... if you could even vape 2.4 @ 6.5 without burning juice.

We're getting into this area here that is hard to explain sometimes... especially to newer vapers...

It's NOT electronics... it's not about watts and ohms and volts.

It's thermodynamics... it's about wire temperature and airflow and surface area...

The electronics just facilitate the thermodynamics.

 

[tj99959]

Good post Wings.
While ohms law is the constant in all this, the thermodynamics has been a constantly evolving playing field from the start. A year ago we were saying that what works with a cartomizer doesn't work with a clearomizer. Sub ohm vaping is just a continuation of the same evolution in thermodynamics.

Do I like sub ohm .... NO, it just isn't the rainbow I happen to be chasing. But who said anyone has to like what I like!

 

[thefullhonkey]

Also, having watched a few "extreme vaping" videos, I've noted that the wattages are always crazy high - like 28W or so. In order to get that kind of output from a standard coil, you'd need one heckuva battery. Hence the sub-ohm chase (n.b. sub-ohm is not something that really interests me, but I figured I'd add my observation anyways. Correct me if I'm mistaken in assuming that this is relevant).

 

[ClippinWings]

Also, having watched a few "extreme vaping" videos, I've noted that the wattages are always crazy high - like 28W or so. In order to get that kind of output from a standard coil, you'd need one heckuva battery. Hence the sub-ohm chase (n.b. sub-ohm is not something that really interests me, but I figured I'd add my observation anyways. Correct me if I'm mistaken in assuming that this is relevant).

yes and no...

I routinely vape at about 20 watts, .7 or .8 ohms

I have vaped as high as 36 Watts, Dual .8 ohm coils(effective .4 ohms)

It was a fantastic vape... but I would have probably burned through 7ml in a day. Not to mention, I about made myself sick from too much nicotine in the first 30 minutes.

The battery voltage is not the limiting factor... not really... it's all ohms law. Amperage that the battery can pump out is what limits the vape... and creates a safety limit.

I have seen a desktop rig that Vapes at 80 watts, using a PC Power supply and a custom quad coil atomizer... I want to build one, for kicks... but it would burn though juice at ludicrous speed.

 

[onion456]

can i post the vaping at 400 watts video now? =D

 

[mandingo]

As others have mentioned it's about power (wattage) the higher the wattage the more juice it can vaporize. I personally use 28 gauge Kanthal wire with a micro coil. I don't know my exactly resistance but it's about 10 wraps or so and I run around 3.8V. The main this about ohm's law is that you square your voltage and divide by resistance of the coil. 3.8v with 1 ohm coil = 14.44 watts. when u start going sub ohm then you start drawing serious wattage and need a battery that can deliver the amperage.

 

[peppinoss]

For me it seems like there is a sweet spot for voltage. If i turn up the voltage to say 4 on a 1.7ohm i am getting a very warm and slight burnt taste. I usually adjust until i get a warm vape without any burning. Also, i dont notice any more vapor when pushing voltage, it seems to be the same. Maybe im just an idiot. I'm going to try a bunch of setting combinations when i get home. thanks fatboy

 

[peppinoss]

another part of the picture is the gauge of the wire. i believe sub-ohmers are using thicker wire, which has less resistance but would not get as hot at the same voltage a smaller wire would. i am far from the expert, as i dont do this, but this seems to be a major part of the puzzle from what ive read. (experts please chime in now =)

that would make sense

 

[peppinoss]

You're on the right track...

(I'll try and keep this simple... I do acknowledge what forum I'm in)

2" of 32 gauge wire(thin) = 2.4ohms
2" of 28 gauge wire(thick) = 0.9ohms

So I can get the same number of wraps, the same length of coil, but do it at a lower resistance, and using a thicker wire, it heats more slowly and has a larger surface area in contact with the juicy wick.

0.9 ohms at 4v is a hell of a lot more impressive vape than 2.4ohms would be at 6.5v... if you could even vape 2.4 @ 6.5 without burning juice.

We're getting into this area hear that is hard to explain sometimes... especially to newer vapers...

It's NOT electronics... it's not about watts and ohms and volts.

It's thermodynamics... it's about wire temperature and airflow and surface area...

The electronics just facilitate the thermodynamics.

This makes sense as well. More surface area on thicker wire seems to be an advantage and i can see how more surface area = more vapor. Why would you burn juice at 2.4ohm and 6.5v but not at the equivalent(i assume) .9ohm at 4v? great info ClippinWings! thanks!

 

[ClippinWings]

For me it seems like there is a sweet spot for voltage. If i turn up the voltage to say 4 on a 1.7ohm i am getting a very warm and slight burnt taste. I usually adjust until i get a warm vape without any burning. Also, i dont notice any more vapor when pushing voltage, it seems to be the same. Maybe im just an idiot. I'm going to try a bunch of setting combinations when i get home. thanks fatboy

see, that's where you have it wrong....

the sweet spot is not the voltage.

The sweet spot is the wire temperature... a 1.7ohm coil will be made with a higher gauge wire... a lower gauge wire would heat more slowly... you could vape at the same voltage... higher wattage... and still not burn the juice.

It's a mind-blowing revelation the first time you vape a 1.0 or lower coil at 3.8 volts or above.

 

[ClippinWings]

NOTE: none of the following applies to over the counts LR cartos or attys or clearomizers... all of those, you can easily describe the vape with ohms, watts and volts...

This makes sense as well. More surface area on thicker wire seems to be an advantage and i can see how more surface area = more vapor. Why would you burn juice at 2.4ohm and 6.5v but not at the equivalent(i assume) .9ohm at 4v? great info ClippinWings! thanks!

its all in wire temp...

my 0.8ohm coil on 28 gauge wire is COOLER than I ever got on standard 510 LR (1.8ohm) attys... even using the LR on a fixed voltage eGo battery.

When you start getting into rebuildable coils and sub ohm vaping, you use ohms law for a basis of what you are making... and for safety...
But things like ohms and wattage quickly become irrelevant when trying to explain the flavor, temperature or volume of the vape....

Which is why you will see coil descriptions...

"10 wrap micro coil on 30 gauge"

"4/5 on 28 gauge"

"9 wrap infinity coil on 26gauge wire"

because the volts, ohms and watts can't explain the vape once the power of thermodynamics is utilized.. they give you a ballpark... but two identical length and gauge coils, with different coil spacing, or wick diameter will vape drastically differently.

 

[Baditude]

Just seems to me that everything ends up being equal. Using low resistance, less volts is required. Maybe the advantage here is that your battery lasts a bit longer. So using higher resistance, will require more volts and will use your battery faster.

Common misconception. Low resistance coils do use less volts, however they require more amps from the battery, so you are really draining the battery faster. Standard or high resistance coils use higher voltage, but use less amps from the battery, therefore you are using less battery energy.

As far as vape goes, how do different resistances make any difference in your vape? I have used 1.7ohms, 2.5ohms, and 3 ohms ad after i dial in the proper volts in my vamo the vapes all seem the same to me. Might be dumb question, but why does resistance matter?

Low resistance coils burn quicker and hotter, producing a warmer vapor. Standard resistance coils take slightly longer to heat and at a cooler temperture resulting in a cooler vapor. Which is best? It's personal preference. I prefer a cooler vape - I no longer seek the heat of an analog. I aim more for fuller flavor production, which a cooler vape generally provides better.

Different flavors may have a different "sweet spot" in voltage. Fruits are often better flavored at lower voltages. A tobacco or coffee flavor may have it's fullest potential with a higher voltage.

Why do people want sub ohm stuff? is there something im missing here?

Although some people claim to have found a better vape with sub ohms on a rebuildable, many new vapors see the You Tube videos of massive clouds of vapor and say, "I want that." It then becomes more "sport" than pratical. Never mind that the vape might actually be horrible, or that if they are not knowledgeable about sub ohm vaping they could destroy their gear or injure themselves.

 

[peppinoss]

Awesome thanks for the reply Baditude! im sort of getting a better handle on it now, but still a little confused. Sorry, hate being a new guy and not understanding. So if lower resistance burns quicker and hotter, to me that would mean you would have to take short drags in order to not start getting a burning taste. If you took an 8 second drag would it start to burn and taste like crap as opposed to a shorter drag? It seems like coil temp is a key here, but again, there are a thousand combinations you can have (ohms, volts, watts...) in order to achieve any given temp. Say the required temp to vaporize the juice is 300 degrees, no matter what ohms and what power setting you use, you will need to get that coil to 300. Once its there and vaping then it seems like everything else is irrelevant (ohms, volts, watts...). Almost seems like mods should have a coil temp setting rather then messing with volts and watts. Hotter temp, hotter vape, cooler temp, cooler vape. The whole surface area thing mentioned by ClippinWings makes sense to me, and i could see how that can produce more vapor. I don't still just dont really get the difference between using sub ohm, LR, ST, or 3+ohms. Is it how the coil heats that makes the vape better? sorry for being dumb when it comes to all this. I have no interest in rebuildables or sub ohms, I just want to try to understand what people are talking about and why it is better.

 

[Valkyrie_Freya]

I noticed your thread and wanted to thank you for your help. I have been trying to chase clouds myself But, now, since you have said try each resistance I have at 4 volts I am going to give it try! Although, taste is what is most important to me.

 

[Hidden Dragon]

Awesome thanks for the reply Baditude! im sort of getting a better handle on it now, but still a little confused. Sorry, hate being a new guy and not understanding. So if lower resistance burns quicker and hotter, to me that would mean you would have to take short drags in order to not start getting a burning taste. If you took an 8 second drag would it start to burn and taste like crap as opposed to a shorter drag? It seems like coil temp is a key here, but again, there are a thousand combinations you can have (ohms, volts, watts...) in order to achieve any given temp. Say the required temp to vaporize the juice is 300 degrees, no matter what ohms and what power setting you use, you will need to get that coil to 300. Once its there and vaping then it seems like everything else is irrelevant (ohms, volts, watts...). Almost seems like mods should have a coil temp setting rather then messing with volts and watts. Hotter temp, hotter vape, cooler temp, cooler vape. The whole surface area thing mentioned by ClippinWings makes sense to me, and i could see how that can produce more vapor. I don't still just dont really get the difference between using sub ohm, LR, ST, or 3+ohms. Is it how the coil heats that makes the vape better? sorry for being dumb when it comes to all this. I have no interest in rebuildables or sub ohms, I just want to try to understand what people are talking about and why it is better.

Without being as technical as some of the other posters, I'll try and chime in with my pocket change...lol. Say you're using a standard 1100mah eGo battery @ 3.7volts, you would notice a difference in the vape using an LR atty versus a standard one. The vape on the LR may seem a bit warmer than on the standard atty. The flavor may be different as well. When going into the sub-ohm and 3+ ohm ranges, you will hear all kind of reasons for vapers venturing into these realms, especially with sub-ohm vaping. But since that's not necessarily a area you care to dive in, I will definitely defer to the senior posters who have already touched on that subject. But no matter what, always remember that you have to find your personal sweet spot when it comes to vaping and if you get into rebuildables, do your research extensively, have the right equipment to measure your builds and batteries and always, always, be safe and vape on!!