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Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
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Ok All You Original Maker Type People... Knock It Off...!!!
- Thread starter bcalvanese
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I did read it and my reply was about everything but the comment about not having read the whole thread. Don't take it personal, though... I was a little tired and felt more sarcastic than need be, so don't take the tone of my reply personally.
I call those starters (I don't call that type of operation an actual maker, but that's my personal definition)... everyone makes the same mistake at first and at the same time it IS cheaper than buying half a million worth of machinery even before you have a product. The truth is it is very often a necessary step to get new markets to emerge and start blooming.
The real problem with hiring outside shops is VOLUME. Every time they start a new batch, there is a setup fee and other overhead fees involved, which up the price quite a bit if you order in small numbers and a small number in this type of case is as high as 300 pieces or even more. Also, some parts have to be sourced from different shops or distributors, making for even more overhead and setup fees. Then there are unexpected delays, which up your price even more because you still had to pay the rent in the mean time.
You could always start by making custom adapters and tube extenders and the likes... The model works on another type of forum where there is no need to get verified to buy and sell and it makes a lot of people happy. It might be a tad more complicated on here, though. Just sayin'
If it works for you, then it works. A 1:1 clone is usually a case of the big guy who already had a shop and needed a product instead of contracts VS the smaller guy who came up with a product and needed a shop. Different business models...
I sometimes buy one or two expensive items in my collections for the sake of status symbol and then never show it to everyone... does that count?
That would be "My God has a bigger D*** than your God" -George Carlin
Actually, I find this thread very interesting and civilized despite the completely different points of view. I have nothing against clones per se, but I tend to prefer buying form the guys who came up with the design since I like to see progress and innovation expand. But... if it wasn't for the competition of cloners, what would really drive the innovation?
Nice dog !
Where you didn't read was I said "a lot of", you come back with "every".
Some actually do have the ability to make stuff and thier production/demand issues stem from them being a small operation instead of farming the work out in short runs.
Yes, that is a good way to start a business. It may even be a good way to run a business. But if you decide to run your business like that you also decide that some of your profit is going to other people. You don't decide you want to make paper clips and then charge $1 per paper clip because you only want to invest in making them 100 at a time.
It wouldn't matter what you're making on my lathe, you're not going to pay for the time it takes. Maybe a 3 jaw chuck would make it so something like drip tips could be made at a profitable rate to make a fair wage if you used tubing. But drilling, deep cuts and cutting threads takes too much time setting up. It takes a full day on my friend's old mill to finish an AR15 reciever, CNC completes actual production numbers in the same amount of time.
If those old machines were what was still in use some of the numbers we're seeing would actually be low ball at today's wages.
If/when I make some attys it will be because it's a hobby and to say I did it (that and to get what I want to fit into a VTR the way I want it to fit).
One of the reasons I buy originals is because I prefer giving my money to the people who have earned it.
The only other option they have is a clone?You really should do some research. There are plenty of inexpensive mechs, apvs and atty's available.
Some clones are not cheap junk.
funny how people can take bits and peices of something and make it look like something else.
Some people are making limited amounts of these devices so people will pay a high price for them so they can say... "I have one of these".
They probably sell them for ten times what it costs them to make them, because they know they will sell out quickly due to limited quantity.
Some of these clones are darn near as good as the originals, and the original makers are only hearting themselves by charging way too much.
Some of these mechanical mods are 200, 300, 400+ dollars. It's a freekin metal tube with a freekin switch on it for god sake. It probably costs about 50 bucks to make.
They probably sell them for ten times what it costs them to make them, because they know they will sell out quickly due to limited quantity.
Some of these clones are darn near as good as the originals, and the original makers are only hearting themselves by charging way too much.
Some of these mechanical mods are 200, 300, 400+ dollars. It's a freekin metal tube with a freekin switch on it for god sake. It probably costs about 50 bucks to make.
Whoa, if his right ear was droopy, that would be a dead ringer for my old dog KC. I still miss him. Thanks for posting that, it brought back some fantastic memories.
It had to come out at some point I suppose....sigh. While I neither agree or disagree with your stance I will say from my perspective the same is true of flashlights and guns to some extent. But do people sit around in there forums and bemoan the cost of them?
It's already been established that there are good mods to be had in ALL price ranges! What does it matter to you if someone charges $1 or $1000 on a NON-essential item??
You can go to Supercut's and get a haircut for probably $20 these days or you can go to some "hair designer" and get the same "haircut" for $200's! Does that upset you?? If it offends you what some of these people charge then buy from somewhere ELSE! No one's FORCING anyone to buy anything and it shouldn't be anyone else's business what someone else spends or makes on an item such as this, nor do I think these people are rolling in the money quite like some people think.
If it's so lucrative, why aren't MORE people doing it? Because it's much easier to armchair "quarterback" verses playing the real game! How's it any different then going into Long Horn Steakhouse and being upset over paying 3 or 4x of McDonald's or even worse....getting a kid's meal at a higher end restaurant!
It reminds me of the workers that are complaining about not making more and Obamacare!
Maybe those of us who buy authentics could be charged a "premium fee" so we can fund those who can't afford a mod to get one!? We can call it Modacaid or Modacare??
I never said clones are cheap junk. I think you quoted the wrong person, because your response to my post makes no sense.
Well I read a decent amount of this thread, but I'm not really replying to anything in particular. Just sharing my thoughts on the clone topic.
I understand both ends of the discussion, but I dont think it's being looked at in a subjective manner, at a personal level.
I get that there are people who want to own an authentic mod, for whatever reason they choose.
Supporting the original designer/manufacturer (which seems to be the main focus), knowing theirs is 'real', seemingly marginal quality differences (especially taking the jump of price into account),exclusivity, ethics, all of that.
And if you can simply afford to do so, or if any of those reasons are enough to justify the cost for you, go for it.
I think it comes down to how much monetary value you're willing to give your moral standards. And your personal financial situation has a significant effect on that.
But there are also people who simply won't (possibly can't) pay $200+ for one of these devices when there is another, cheaper, and nearly identical product available, regardless of the circumstances. Because when it comes down to it, on a scale only reflecting your life, is giving your money to the "right" person worth it to you in a practical sense? Should you need to take an extra 200$ out of your budget for a vape when you can spend a quarter of that?
Do I think it's RIGHT to do?
On a simply ethical level, of course not. It is nothing but straight counterfeiting on the "cloners" part. My biggest issue is that the same logos and markings are used. I think that should be the real focus of the issue. It's flat out ridiculous, but my voice isn't going to change that, so I dont bother worrying about it.
When it comes down to it, I'm not going to lose any sleep over knowing that I gave my money to a counterfeiter instead of the original maker. Maybe that's s****y of me, but I just dont care. The option was there and I went with it. And saved enough money to buy 4 more in the future if I want. Realistically I need the money for other things. Sure I could wait longer and save up for an authentic, but the morals involved really arent that important to me.
It is selfish, but I need to worry about my own situation first.
I'm not very good at expressing my point of view, but hopefully that was enough for you to infer my thoughts.
I understand both ends of the discussion, but I dont think it's being looked at in a subjective manner, at a personal level.
I get that there are people who want to own an authentic mod, for whatever reason they choose.
Supporting the original designer/manufacturer (which seems to be the main focus), knowing theirs is 'real', seemingly marginal quality differences (especially taking the jump of price into account),exclusivity, ethics, all of that.
And if you can simply afford to do so, or if any of those reasons are enough to justify the cost for you, go for it.
I think it comes down to how much monetary value you're willing to give your moral standards. And your personal financial situation has a significant effect on that.
But there are also people who simply won't (possibly can't) pay $200+ for one of these devices when there is another, cheaper, and nearly identical product available, regardless of the circumstances. Because when it comes down to it, on a scale only reflecting your life, is giving your money to the "right" person worth it to you in a practical sense? Should you need to take an extra 200$ out of your budget for a vape when you can spend a quarter of that?
Do I think it's RIGHT to do?
On a simply ethical level, of course not. It is nothing but straight counterfeiting on the "cloners" part. My biggest issue is that the same logos and markings are used. I think that should be the real focus of the issue. It's flat out ridiculous, but my voice isn't going to change that, so I dont bother worrying about it.
When it comes down to it, I'm not going to lose any sleep over knowing that I gave my money to a counterfeiter instead of the original maker. Maybe that's s****y of me, but I just dont care. The option was there and I went with it. And saved enough money to buy 4 more in the future if I want. Realistically I need the money for other things. Sure I could wait longer and save up for an authentic, but the morals involved really arent that important to me.
It is selfish, but I need to worry about my own situation first.
I'm not very good at expressing my point of view, but hopefully that was enough for you to infer my thoughts.
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And that's because I meant that everything I was replying to was everything in your post excluding the part where you said you had not read the whole thread yet... sorry if that offends you, but that is exactly what I meant. Did I miss something?
Yup
Some businesses that deal with distributing different products and technologies actually need to sub-contract building of accessories or system parts since it wouldn't make sense to build a shop for something that represents less than 10% of their sales. I know quite a few, but this is certainly not relevant to the vaping industry as far as we know. The model we think about in this specific example is having most everything built externally and that is extremely costly. There is one flashlight manufacturer who is very popular on such a business model, but the wait times are ridiculous because of delays caused by one or two sub contrators. The cost is also high at around 260$ for one unit, but no one else has anything like it with top notch quality and he does sell a lot of them to soldiers and gives them priority on delivery times. He's not going out of business anytime soon, but that is mainly because the product is extremely reliable and completely unique in it's own way. To stay on topic, I have to add that only crazy people buy those despite a 6 month waiting time and I want 2 of them
I wouldn't want one if I had not had a chance to try one in person, though...Of course it wouldn't be a self-sufficient business, especially if aiming at making mods from scratch by boring metal. Still, there are people who make accessories or entire flashlights at home with a lathe. The prices are completely preposterous and the production batches infinitesimal, but those guys started doing that because they did have extremely interesting designs. I suspect they use the money to purchase accessories to make their own unworldly mods and probably can make no more than a couple a year since they do have day jobs and never guarantee delivery times.
Lol as long as companies like Hcigar, infinite, etc are producing high quality 1:1 clones I will most likely never by an original.
This gives me more spare cash to buy clothes, trainers, gym stuff, anything my daughter wants, holidays, house stuff, loads of clones and premium liquids, a debt free life and extra to save (not all in one month of course!). All of these things are far more important to me then 'buying from the west' and supporting some guy in his shed.
If anyone has an issue with that, they may kindly join the queue of people waiting for me to give a .......
This gives me more spare cash to buy clothes, trainers, gym stuff, anything my daughter wants, holidays, house stuff, loads of clones and premium liquids, a debt free life and extra to save (not all in one month of course!). All of these things are far more important to me then 'buying from the west' and supporting some guy in his shed.
If anyone has an issue with that, they may kindly join the queue of people waiting for me to give a .......
That's a nice puppy, but:
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As long as there's clones and people that think they know what's best for the rest of humanity, there'll be these threads. I'm glad...I like these almost as much as the provari threads.
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